pricesq Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 Hi Paul, I'm sure I speak for many when I bid you a very warm welcome to the thread. Its nice to have someone with your background within our ranks. In my book you as a collector are as welcome as an active modeller. I'm sure you will be amazed at some of the fabulous modelling that we see on this thread - and of course with your experience you will apreiciate the work involved. Please join into the chat and have some fun. All the very Best, Regards Many thanks for your very warm welcome Weatheringman, its great to see so many superb photos of models and layouts. I used to go to the Model Railway Exhibition at the Maltings in Ely, unable to escape these days as I'm a full time carer, so finding RM has been great. What ever happened to Grayham Farish, yes we did have a layout when I was a lad, also was very lucky to run a very large Hornby Dublo layout for the Co-op in Swansea one Christmas, what a job and even got paid! Working on the Die cast and plastic moulds as well as tooling back in the 60s was very precise work, I used to have a permanant groove up my index finger due to my use of needle files, we also used Desouter air grinders as well as Dentists drills! Recutting detail should have been done using a pantagraph, but when a tools out of production due to an accident, a bit or weld and recutting by hand used to be my norm. (I did use a clock gauge as well as my trusty mike as well as the models still had to remain accurate, use of Vernier and Hight gauge was also the norm) Mould surfaces had to be scraped to fit,( we are talking 1/1000 of an inch) one could work for several weeks before the mould was able to go back in to production. So I don't envy those trying to retool after making a copy of of maybe several older models. Die-cast is easier than plastic, the later can be unstable, which is why so many scale models are Mazak Die-cast, a very hot process so not great in a warmer clime! Making and developing moulds is not easy, what we get afterwards may not be perfect, but theres a good number of members to whom perfection is so special. So keep up the good work members! Regards Paul 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BernardTPM Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 The two second class(?) 'coaches' which worked with PLANET when it visited the Great Central a few years ago looked as if they were built on BR Banana Van (or similar) underframes. The replica coaches were built by the LMS in 1930 for the L&M centenary celebrations. http://www.cs.vintagecarriagestrust.org/se/CarriageInfo.asp?Ref=5550 http://www.cs.vintagecarriagestrust.org/se/CarriageInfo.asp?Ref=5551 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
298 Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 The two second class(?) 'coaches' which worked with PLANET when it visited the Great Central a few years ago looked as if they were built on BR Banana Van (or similar) underframes. The replica coaches were built by the LMS in 1930 for the L&M centenary celebrations. http://www.cs.vintagecarriagestrust.org/se/CarriageInfo.asp?Ref=5550 http://www.cs.vintagecarriagestrust.org/se/CarriageInfo.asp?Ref=5551 The replica coaches at MOSI with Planet are newer: http://www.cs.vintagecarriagestrust.org/se/CarriageInfo.asp?Ref=3859 http://www.cs.vintagecarriagestrust.org/se/CarriageInfo.asp?Ref=3858 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamport Southport Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 The first ones are the ones that were built for the 100th Anniversary and kept with Lion in Liverpool. There are others in the NRM. The second lot were built later to modern standards to a dubious design. Quite probably as alluded to above on ex BR Banana van chassis. The 1930s stock have solid wooden underframes, carriage wheels and no brakes. Whereas the "modern" stock have steel underframes, wagon wheels and full air braking. They are very different beasts. Jason Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lightengine Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 Well I've had a good think about it and I'll do my Rocket in its un-rebuilt streamlined condition with corridor tender so if any one has any good pictures especially with the double chimney and smoke deflectors I'd be very grateful. Steve Hoping your tender will have the water pick up and the bell as was converted for the American tour. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamport Southport Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 More than one Rocket did appear in America. At least two in museums. And one in the Buster Keaton film Our Hospitality. Details from the Wikipedia page for Stephenson's Rocket. Jason. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium PhilJ W Posted February 3, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 3, 2015 The replica coaches at MOSI with Planet are newer: http://www.cs.vintagecarriagestrust.org/se/CarriageInfo.asp?Ref=3859 http://www.cs.vintagecarriagestrust.org/se/CarriageInfo.asp?Ref=3858 As I was considering putting a pair of tender bodies on a wagon underframe to create a passenger coach its nice to see the same thing in 12" to the foot scale, but mine will be on a wooden underframe with spoke wheels. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BernardTPM Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 I'd not seen those newer ones, but given they are pretty modern (1989/90) that's not surprising. They had the 'real' ones at Rocket 150. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poor Old Bruce Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 The two second class 'coaches' which worked with PLANET when it visited the Great Central a few years ago looked as if they were built on BR Banana Van (or similar) underframes. The replica coaches at MOSI with Planet are newer: http://www.cs.vintagecarriagestrust.org/se/CarriageInfo.asp?Ref=3859 http://www.cs.vintagecarriagestrust.org/se/CarriageInfo.asp?Ref=3858 That's them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Il Grifone Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 Just found these on eBay which might be useful for anyone contemplating a diorama or layout. I didn't know K's did these, but they did have some obscure prototypes (There was a range of Southwold Railway models for instance). Grifone is at present financially challenged, so unfortunately has to pass on them. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Keyser-Vintage-4-Wheel-Coach-Kits/251817053726?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20140122125356%26meid%3D16495690ddbd492eb70977c04dc1cb34%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D301513867013&rt=nc 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Londontram Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 . Grifone is at present financially challenged, so unfortunately has to pass on them. Join the club mate Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Holliday Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 Just found these on eBay which might be useful for anyone contemplating a diorama or layout. I didn't know K's did these, but they did have some obscure prototypes (There was a range of Southwold Railway models for instance). Grifone is at present financially challenged, so unfortunately has to pass on them. I have a feeling that these, although lovely looking, may be part of K's continental adventures, and are Spanish in design, and in HO. I suspect they would look even smaller than the Rocket's companions Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
EddieB Posted February 3, 2015 Author Share Posted February 3, 2015 I thought the next issue was supposed to be a J39. There's a rather good Science Museum book on Rocket with lots of technical drawings. http://www.amazon.co.uk/Engineering-History-Rocket-Survey-Report/dp/1900747189/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1422900395&sr=8-3&keywords=the+engineering+and+history+of+rocket On a similar subject, Michael Bailey's latest book is a survey of surviving locomotives (including parts and substantial replicas) built before 1850: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Loco-Motion-Worlds-Oldest-Locomotives/dp/0752491016/ Issue No. 7 of the Loco Profiles series covered "Rocket". Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smiffy2 Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 Looks interesting. I'm after Rocket in 1831 condition. Do you have a list of the contents of the book? None of the bookselling websites bothers with such details... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BernardTPM Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 (edited) I have a feeling that these, although lovely looking, may be part of K's continental adventures, and are Spanish in design, and in HO. I suspect they would look even smaller than the Rocket's companions They are, but not far out for the Bodmin & Wadebrige composite; in fact slightly too wide for it in 4mm scale despite being H0! I've been slowly rebuilding one to a private quarry-owner's coach in 009: Edited July 1, 2017 by BernardTPM 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Il Grifone Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 (edited) I have a feeling that these, although lovely looking, may be part of K's continental adventures, and are Spanish in design, and in HO. I suspect they would look even smaller than the Rocket's companions It's quite possible - I was going by the seller's description. The buffers do look rather far apart on close examination, which would be in accordance with the Spanish broad gauge. Actually there appears to be nowhere to locate the buffer springs behind the solebars, as they are so close to the ends of the headstocks. Edited February 3, 2015 by Il Grifone Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium PhilJ W Posted February 3, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 3, 2015 Just found these on eBay which might be useful for anyone contemplating a diorama or layout. I didn't know K's did these, but they did have some obscure prototypes (There was a range of Southwold Railway models for instance). Grifone is at present financially challenged, so unfortunately has to pass on them. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Keyser-Vintage-4-Wheel-Coach-Kits/251817053726?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20140122125356%26meid%3D16495690ddbd492eb70977c04dc1cb34%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D301513867013&rt=nc I have a feeling that these, although lovely looking, may be part of K's continental adventures, and are Spanish in design, and in HO. I suspect they would look even smaller than the Rocket's companions I have one of these kits, in fact the length is HO but the width is correct for 00 and fits in well with the tender to the Airfix/Dapol tender. Am I the only one that thinks that the Triang Rocket coaches are a bit too long? I also have an HO model of an 1850's Crampton locomotive which is from an old Atlas part-work and I hope to incorporate it into a diorama probably converted to a tank locomotive but being HO scale it will require a bit of work. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
EddieB Posted February 3, 2015 Author Share Posted February 3, 2015 Looks interesting. I'm after Rocket in 1831 condition. Do you have a list of the contents of the book? None of the bookselling websites bothers with such details... "Loco Motion"? It's a survey of surviving locos and relics, consisting of a mixture of descriptions (including explanations of innovative features), comtemporary photographs (including some detail shorts), a few drawings, tables of dimensions. IMHO it would benefit from an index, as locomotives are arranged by "families" (according to design) and - to me at least - it isn't always easy to identify to which family a particular locomotive should be assigned. As far as the illustrations, I fel that the author must have been looking over my shoulder in various museums. While it describes the remains of "Rocket" as found at the Science Museum, together with replicas here in UK and in the USA, it is well short of providing the coverage you'd need to make an accurate model of "Rocket" for any particular period. If you're looking for more detailed information specifically on "Rocket", then I'd recommend the Loco Profile edition mentioned above. Written by Brian Reed (who was under-rated as a technical author), it goes through most of the known (and speculative) history of this remarkable locomotive. A bit more expensive is "A Century of Locomotive Building By Robert Stephenson * Co., 1823-1923" (Warren), issued as a reprint of a work of 1925(?) by David & Charles in 1970. It has a description of construction of "Rocket", a chapter on the Rainhill Trials, another on its firebox and covers some of its subsequent history - besides a history of locomotive production and the firm itself between those dates. Both the Loco Profile and "Century" reprint the first known drawing of "Rocket" from 1829 as well as the "Crewe drawing" prepared when it was sold off the Liverpool & Manchester Railway, which shows features and modifications added from 1831 onwards. Both books have numerous other illustrations covering modifications and various features. Of course there are many other books covering "Rocket" (including the earlier work by Bailey, which I haven't seen) - I'll leave it to others to make further recomendations! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenny Emily Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 Asda in Astley Bridge, Bolton has one of the GBL C classes in their magazine section as of earlier today if anyone is interested. I didn't get it as I have all three of the Bachmann C classes that have been done in SECR livery. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pricesq Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 Many thanks for your very warm welcome Weatheringman, its great to see so many superb photos of models and layouts. I used to go to the Model Railway Exhibition at the Maltings in Ely, unable to escape these days as I'm a full time carer, so finding RM has been great. What ever happened to Grayham Farish, yes we did have a layout when I was a lad, also was very lucky to run a very large Hornby Dublo layout for the Co-op in Swansea one Christmas, what a job and even got paid! Working on the Die cast and plastic moulds as well as tooling back in the 60s was very precise work, I used to have a permanant groove up my index finger due to my use of needle files, we also used Desouter air grinders as well as Dentists drills! Recutting detail should have been done using a pantagraph, but when a tools out of production due to an accident, a bit or weld and recutting by hand used to be my norm. (I did use a clock gauge as well as my trusty mike as well as the models still had to remain accurate, use of Vernier and Hight gauge was also the norm) Mould surfaces had to be scraped to fit,( we are talking 1/1000 of an inch) one could work for several weeks before the mould was able to go back in to production. So I don't envy those trying to retool after making a copy of of maybe several older models. Die-cast is easier than plastic, the later can be unstable, which is why so many scale models are Mazak Die-cast, a very hot process so not great in a warmer clime! Making and developing moulds is not easy, what we get afterwards may not be perfect, but theres a good number of members to whom perfection is so special. So keep up the good work members! Regards Paul Well after a bit of research regarding Grayham Farish they now make N gauge models.(which no doubt many of you are aware of) The OO Gauge train we had when I was a lad was the Golden Arrow. Even the table lamps in the coaches were lit! Main snag was the track, it had to be soldered together, great for a permanant layout but a pain when trying to lay rails between rooms etc. I found this link https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=golden+arrow+steam+train&sa=X&biw=1855&bih=952&tbm=isch&imgil=fzzS7BDKPdaBzM%253A%253Bnh_DF6MveoWFoM%253Bhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.southernsteamtrains.com%25252Fsouthern-bulleid-pacific.htm&source=iu&pf=m&fir=fzzS7BDKPdaBzM%253A%252Cnh_DF6MveoWFoM%252C_&usg=__Mwv9XGPKTQIbjGfZ-LtXbRyvMqo%3D&ved=0CDsQyjc&ei=_DLRVPDBCMfY7Aa_oYHwCw#imgdii=_&imgrc=fzzS7BDKPdaBzM%253A%3Bnh_DF6MveoWFoM%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.southernsteamtrains.com%252F2006locos%252Fdetail-GoldenArrow-kit-web.jpg%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.southernsteamtrains.com%252Fsouthern-bulleid-pacific.htm%3B800%3B396 According to Wickipeadia the OO gauge models suffered from a problem with the Mazack used in manufacture, which after time seriously affected the finish. It would be interesting to discover if any OO gauge GF still exists, we certainly loved ours. Paul 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest spet0114 Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 (edited) It would be interesting to discover if any OO gauge GF still exists, we certainly loved ours. Hi Paul, Have a look here: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/15565-collectors-corner-graham-farish/ Cheers Adrian Edited February 3, 2015 by spet0114 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Il Grifone Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 Well after a bit of research regarding Grayham Farish they now make N gauge models.(which no doubt many of you are aware of) The OO Gauge train we had when I was a lad was the Golden Arrow. Even the table lamps in the coaches were lit! Main snag was the track, it had to be soldered together, great for a permanant layout but a pain when trying to lay rails between rooms etc. I found this link https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=golden+arrow+steam+train&sa=X&biw=1855&bih=952&tbm=isch&imgil=fzzS7BDKPdaBzM%253A%253Bnh_DF6MveoWFoM%253Bhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.southernsteamtrains.com%25252Fsouthern-bulleid-pacific.htm&source=iu&pf=m&fir=fzzS7BDKPdaBzM%253A%252Cnh_DF6MveoWFoM%252C_&usg=__Mwv9XGPKTQIbjGfZ-LtXbRyvMqo%3D&ved=0CDsQyjc&ei=_DLRVPDBCMfY7Aa_oYHwCw#imgdii=_&imgrc=fzzS7BDKPdaBzM%253A%3Bnh_DF6MveoWFoM%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.southernsteamtrains.com%252F2006locos%252Fdetail-GoldenArrow-kit-web.jpg%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.southernsteamtrains.com%252Fsouthern-bulleid-pacific.htm%3B800%3B396 According to Wickipeadia the OO gauge models suffered from a problem with the Mazack used in manufacture, which after time seriously affected the finish. It would be interesting to discover if any OO gauge GF still exists, we certainly loved ours. Paul It is still quite common, but the locomotives command a collector's premium. The wagons are quite cheap though, but the coaches all suffer from warping of the plastic often compounded by expansion of the mazak floor/chassis unit. All early production is liable to mazak break-up problems. The range was revamped in the 60's with new wagons and the coaches in polystyrene. http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/OO-Gauge-/122601/i.html?_from=R40&_nkw=farish Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pricesq Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 Hi Paul, Have a look here: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/15565-collectors-corner-graham-farish/ Cheers Adrian Many thanks Adrian, gosh just think,if Dinky and Corgi Models suffer the same fate in years to come, as some models change hands these days for Hundreds of pounds, much safer to invest in Gold! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pricesq Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 It is still quite common, but the locomotives command a collector's premium. The wagons are quite cheap though, but the coaches all suffer from warping of the plastic often compounded by expansion of the mazak floor/chassis unit. All early production is liable to mazak break-up problems. The range was revamped in the 60's with new wagons and the coaches in polystyrene. http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/OO-Gauge-/122601/i.html?_from=R40&_nkw=farish Thanks Grifone, at least I have memories of what beautiful models they were. The Mazack we used at Corgi was OK, difficult to tool (the spinnings on the underside of the models was always a problem) and flash removal tools etc used to ware out very quickly. It became an exercise to see just how many features could be included on models, the Mini being one of the best examples, it was a nightmare especialy close to the end of a production run!. Special coatings/ platings were developed prior to painting, to be truthful some models must have been sold below cost, which did not help with the companies survival. But again that sums up the demise of Hornby, Matchbox, etc, we were great at development, but eventualy gave it all away to the far east! Paul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJS1977 Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 Am I the only one that thinks that the Triang Rocket coaches are a bit too long? I don't know, I'm not old enough to have seen the originals! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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