A Nod To Brent - a friendly thread, filled with frivolity, cream teas and pasties. Longing for the happy days in the South Hams 1947.

[gwrrob]

Plenty of talk elsewhere on the Dapol announcement of an Air Ministry 14ton oil tank in various liveries. I don't remember shewing my Oxford version in the Benzol By Products Limited livery model after weathering by @toboldlygo that come in at about half the price of the Dapol model. Nice bit of filth to start the week.

 

 

[Dunsignalling]

Just now, gwrrob said:

Plenty of talk elsewhere on the Dapol announcement of an Air Ministry 14ton oil tank in various liveries. I don't remember shewing my Oxford version in the Benzol By Products Limited livery model after weathering by @toboldlygo that come in at about half the price of the Dapol model. Nice bit of filth to start the week.

 

 

 

Hopefully, we'll see some more of these to mix in with the Air Ministry ones. I somehow doubt the bargain prices will be repeated, though.

 

John

[6892 Oakhill Grange]

4 hours ago, gwrrob said:

 

Although the 15xx class never set foot near Brent to my knowledge, three of the class were seen near the home of this thread. Here we see 1502 in maroon courtesy of Michael Mears.

 

 

 

I find the painting of god’s own locomotives in Hogwarts livery very distressing.  Is it performing empty stock workings at Hogsmeade?

[Ian Hargrave]

2 minutes ago, Mallard60022 said:

Like so many other areas, I doubt there is any sign of that Pit or even a Plaque to mention what was once there.

P

 
That’s an interesting observation and it’s dependent upon which area/coalfield you’re talking about. As each generation of miners fall off the tree,then memories fade My own home area was the Rhondda/Aberdare valleys and there are startling contrasts there. Tower….the legendary last pit….is no more and no visible trace exists .Yet just a mile up the hillside the buildings of its ancillary pit remain…..as the infrastructure of a new tourist attraction zip wire.So now “butt”you can jump safely off the Rhigos and zoom smoothly & safely down to enjoy a cup of coffee & a burger in the cafe which once served as part of the pit.It was initially known as Tirherbert Sinkings and was a new venture opened by the bright new NCB just after the war.In fact as a kid travelling over the Rhigos on a Western Welsh bus to see his Gran and aunties in Treorchy and Treherbert I remember it actually opening. The bus would sometimes stop half way up to pick up or let down there.

 

For memory and nostalgia and for the odd building or two that remain then visit Maerdy,aka “Little Moscow”.Yes Communist in politics in its heyday and proud of its tradition. They all marched back together at the end of the strike.There’s a commemorative structure to see ,marking its final significance .But the mountainsides and industrial remains now make good sport for youths in their beaten up 4x4’s.

 

A long while since Dewi Thomas ….my grandfather….was a colliery winder in Cwmparc.He was a true pitman poet,whose work is held at the National Library in Aberystwyth.The other day I went to see the house in Treorchy in which he and my grandmother brought up seven children .Now tarted up with a BMW MPV parked outside. Time marches on….

 

[Siberian Snooper]

1 hour ago, Mallard60022 said:

Apart from one, they look very much like those that go to Model Railway Shows in the Winter months. The one second right is checking his Tickets. Third right... better not say anything.

P

 

I just hope they don't come with prototypical olfactory packs.

 

 

[teaky]

2 hours ago, Mallard60022 said:

Like so many other areas, I doubt there is any sign of that Pit or even a Plaque to mention what was once there.

P

Not much sign of the pit anymore.  There's a country park and some houses but it is mainly warehousing now.  However, there a small monument: https://i2-prod.coventrytelegraph.net/incoming/article6786109.ece/ALTERNATES/s1227b/utils.jpg

[Mallard60022]

3 minutes ago, teaky said:

Not much sign of the pit anymore.  There's a country park and some houses but it is mainly warehousing now.  However, there a small monument: https://i2-prod.coventrytelegraph.net/incoming/article6786109.ece/ALTERNATES/s1227b/utils.jpg

Very similar to a lot in Notts. There are some sites that are gone and forgotten and many Landscaped. Some are built on but many are too toxic or in remote sites.

Notts has been quite ruthless to erase it's history; shameless.

P

[teaky]

2 minutes ago, Mallard60022 said:

Notts has been quite ruthless to erase it's history; shameless.

Yes, it's true.  There definitely fewer trees in Nottinghamshire and you don't see so many men in tights these days.  🤭

[MrWolf]

It's very sad that we were in an unthinking hurry to sweep away all of the industry that had supported this country, almost as though we were ashamed of it. Nowadays there seems to be an unspoken opinion that if you get dirty for a living you have no ambition or have somehow failed at life.

Generation X had it drummed into us that we must get a degree, forget skilled trades, everyone was going to be a stockbroker, teacher, web designer or estate agent..

Now we have generations of people who are virtually unemployable and the rot set in twenty years before the miners strike.

I often wonder where we will end up, no matter who you vote for.

[MrWolf]

On a brighter note, what's the consensus on the old Bachmann range of tank wagons in the prewar liveries?

I have a number of them which I would like to work up to match my other stock and was wondering how clean/ dirty they would have been in the 1930s given that the petrol companies were quite image conscious because of the level of brand loyalty amongst customers.

[Mallard60022]

14 hours ago, teaky said:

Yes, it's true.  There definitely fewer trees in Nottinghamshire and you don't see so many men in tights these days.  🤭

Fewer trees is the case. However the latter;  have you been to or through Worksop recently?

 

Talking of Worksop  (few do), there is quite a developing Railway Works/Depot there now after many years of decline. I think it could be the same bloke as from barrow Hill? Harry Needle is it? I don't now as it involves infernal combustion things and goods stock that looks like Stealth Wagons.

P

[Mallard60022]

10 hours ago, MrWolf said:

On a brighter note, what's the consensus on the old Bachmann range of tank wagons in the prewar liveries?

I have a number of them which I would like to work up to match my other stock and was wondering how clean/ dirty they would have been in the 1930s given that the petrol companies were quite image conscious because of the level of brand loyalty amongst customers.

I do not have any them specifically, however there must be books on that era; sadly B & W photo's but cleanliness would be observable I am sure? My guess is pre war they would have been kept pretty well?

P

[gwrrob]

14 hours ago, MrWolf said:

On a brighter note, what's the consensus on the old Bachmann range of tank wagons in the prewar liveries?

I have a number of them which I would like to work up to match my other stock and was wondering how clean/ dirty they would have been in the 1930s given that the petrol companies were quite image conscious because of the level of brand loyalty amongst customers.

 

I have a few of these too @MrWolf and are in a well weathered state but I would think they would be a lot cleaner in your period. You've inspired my next photo shoot.😉

[gwrrob]

3 hours ago, gwrrob said:

 You've inspired my next photo shoot.😉

 

The always popular 2-8-0 Austerity class 77294 is seen on shed getting ready for another turn.

 

 

[Dunsignalling]

19 hours ago, MrWolf said:

On a brighter note, what's the consensus on the old Bachmann range of tank wagons in the prewar liveries?

I have a number of them which I would like to work up to match my other stock and was wondering how clean/ dirty they would have been in the 1930s given that the petrol companies were quite image conscious because of the level of brand loyalty amongst customers.

In general (there will always be exceptions) Class A tanks tended to remain fairly clean but for a bit of soot etc. that all wagons acquired. Their loads usually didn’t cause staining, and the nature of said loads ensured that spillages were avoided anyway. Exceptions were wagons used for carrying crude oil to refineries, which (AIUI) was rated Class A on a precautionary basis because the volatility could not be guaranteed to be low enough to fall under Class B. They were used pretty intensively in block train circuits and may not have got cleaned between overhauls.

 

Class B tanks were normally much grubbier, "muckier" contents and less incentive to avoid the stuff getting where it shouldn't.

 

John

Edited August 23, 2022 by Dunsignalling

[gwrrob]

16 minutes ago, Dunsignalling said:

Class B tanks were normally much grubbier, "muckier" contents and less incentive to avoid the stuff getting where it shouldn't.

 

 

Were Class A tanks generally silver in colour then John. I remember Mike @The Stationmaster instructing me to run them in the middle of my train but I can't remember why now.

[Dunsignalling]

20 minutes ago, gwrrob said:

 

Were Class A tanks generally silver in colour then John. I remember Mike @The Stationmaster instructing me to run them in the middle of my train but I can't remember why now.

Depends on period. Pre-WW2, Class A tanks were generally buff in colour with a red waistband. This was judged to be rather conspicuous from the air, and gave way to grey tanks, with red solebars to act as a warning to those working around them.

 

Post-war, the grey generally gave way to silver, though there is some evidence that a few operators may have reverted to using buff initially.

 

Positioning within trains was  a safety precaution. Class A tanks had to be separated from both loco and brake van (both containing sources of potential ignition) by two barrier vehicles with a minimum height of a five plank wagon, or (AIUI) one if a Class B tank were interposed. Positioning of Class A tanks in the middle of mixed A/B formations simply allowed the train to reverse direction conveniently if it became necessary during the course of its journey.

 

John

[MrWolf]

Thanks everyone for the very useful information, those wagons now have no excuse to remain in their boxes. Regarding the grey paintwork post 1939, this was also the livery of the national POOL wartime fuel arrangement, where all branding was removed. It's quite possible that not all tankers were repaired into their owner's livery immediately after the cessation of hostilities and the POOL livery may have lingered on for several years afterwards.

[The Stationmaster]

17 hours ago, Dunsignalling said:

Depends on period. Pre-WW2, Class A tanks were generally buff in colour with a red waistband. This was judged to be rather conspicuous from the air, and gave way to grey tanks, with red solebars to act as a warning to those working around them.

 

Post-war, the grey generally gave way to silver, though there is some evidence that a few operators may have reverted to using buff initially.

 

Positioning within trains was  a safety precaution. Class A tanks had to be separated from both loco and brake van (both containing sources of potential ignition) by two barrier vehicles with a minimum height of a five plank wagon, or (AIUI) one if a Class B tank were interposed. Positioning of Class A tanks in the middle of mixed A/B formations simply allowed the train to reverse direction conveniently if it became necessary during the course of its journey.

 

John

The barrier wagon requirements changed over the years.  The information I gave Rob was for the period which he is modelling.  It was different for the period prior to WWII when the term 'barrier wagon' didn't really exist as such.  And of course it was different again, with various changes over time, during the BR era. 

Edited August 24, 2022 by The Stationmaster

[gwrrob]

Some midweek delight as a filthy Austerity class 77294 heads west on a medium length oil tank train.

 

 

 

 

 

[Clive Mortimore]

The biggest problem with the Oxford tank wagon is unloading it. The Class A wagons have no syphon, until the 1960s there were not good enough valves to allow for bottom discharge, leakage was a danger with such volatile products so they were sucked out from the top. The Class B wagons have no bottom discharge, despite the potential of leaking valves Class B products were deemed safe to be unloaded using gravity and a tap in the bottom.

 

Early diesel depots, photos of Kings Cross Bottom Shed are examples of diesel being delivered in black painted wagons (Class B) with syphons but were in fact ex Class A wagons with syphons painted black.

 

Slightly off period, but when it was decided that the more modern valves were safe for class A Tanks to be unloaded by bottom discharge Diesel could be delivered to loco depots in either Class A tanks or Class B tanks. It is a class B product because of its high flash point but considered a clean product like most Class A products.    

[The Stationmaster]

A good many years the Perway reported what appeared to be a leaking tank car on the Fawley - Tiverton Jcn tanks - a regular train which passed out patch in the early afternoon.  The train was duly stopped at Witham and the Fire Brigade attended from Frome.  The leak was from a bottom discharge point on a Class A tank and it appeared to be down to the outlet end cap not being sufficiently tight to hold anything which had leaked past the valve.

 

The train was shunted into the Down Sidings and the Fire Brigade decided the best approach was to unscrew the end cap and catch (in a bucket) anything which leaked out.  This idea actually worked and after they had made sure the valve was properly shut they drained what ever petrol (yes😮) was being held by the cap and there was no more leakage.  This left them with a large bucket full of petrol so they then decided that the best way to get rid of it was to dig a hole and bury it. That got rid of the petrol, or rather hid it from sigh, but it took a week or more for the air in that part of the yard to stop stinking of petrol.

 

The Tivvy tanks was also a regular for another move at Witham where if it had to b eregulated and the sidings were full and there was no time to get it to Castle Cary Loop it was shunted 'across the road' from the Down Main to the Up Main until it could be let out behind the Class 1 passenger train it has d been shunted to get clear of.   No need to Block Back as the Up Home Signal was very long way in rear of where it stood.  but interesting to know that in the mid 1970s we still had to do  the very thing that was at the root of the Quintinshill collision.

[Dunsignalling]

15 hours ago, Clive Mortimore said:

The biggest problem with the Oxford tank wagon is unloading it. The Class A wagons have no syphon, until the 1960s there were not good enough valves to allow for bottom discharge, leakage was a danger with such volatile products so they were sucked out from the top. The Class B wagons have no bottom discharge, despite the potential of leaking valves Class B products were deemed safe to be unloaded using gravity and a tap in the bottom.

 

 

Thanks, Clive, I've had this nagging thought that I'd left something off the to-do list.....

 

John

[gwrrob]

Some afternoon delight featuring WD Austerity class 77294 again.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[KNP]

Taken a liberty

A tweak with tone mapping....