billbedford Posted July 4, 2016 Share Posted July 4, 2016 Ohh does thane Horby are thinking Bachmann will do it and Bachmann Hornby? So we can expect an announcement from Oxford? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete_mcfarlane Posted July 4, 2016 Share Posted July 4, 2016 Don't forget that a number of small-tender T9s spent their summers on the Eastern Section in the thirties and late forties ........ I've never seen any evidence of 700s in the area though. ( I'm still trying to fine-tune my excuse for running an M7 ...... as for the Bachmann 'Nelson' ................................ ? .................... ) The relevant Bradley book on LSWR locos says that they worked excursions to the Sussex coast in the 1930s. You'll need a set of ancient (and probably not very salubrious) 6 wheeled LSWR coaches to go behind it. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wickham Green Posted July 4, 2016 Share Posted July 4, 2016 The relevant Bradley book on LSWR locos says that they worked excursions to the Sussex coast in the 1930s. You'll need a set of ancient (and probably not very salubrious) 6 wheeled LSWR coaches to go behind it. All Southern six-wheelers - salubrious or not - had gone to the great fiddle-yard in the sky by the time of my layout, unfortunately ( nothing new about Global Warming ! ). Least salubrious at the time would have been a long set of ( Branchlines ) birdcages with a sprinkling of ( Hornby ) 58' rebuilds dragged out of Rotherhythe Road once a year to take the 'Hoppers' on 'Holiday' ....... but probably NOT behind a 700 ( or a Nelson or a Flannel Jacket ). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbo_Tim Posted July 4, 2016 Share Posted July 4, 2016 Don't forget M7s did get across as far as Tunbridge Wells West, although they were much less popular than the H Class. Apparently three M7 were temporarily at Faversham in 1953 to work a shuttle service to Herne Bay after the floods at the end of January/ beginning of February. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete_mcfarlane Posted July 4, 2016 Share Posted July 4, 2016 All Southern six-wheelers - salubrious or not - had gone to the great fiddle-yard in the sky by the time of my layout, unfortunately ( nothing new about Global Warming ! ). Least salubrious at the time would have been a long set of ( Branchlines ) birdcages with a sprinkling of ( Hornby ) 58' rebuilds dragged out of Rotherhythe Road once a year to take the 'Hoppers' on 'Holiday' ....... but probably NOT behind a 700 ( or a Nelson or a Flannel Jacket ). Whilst we'd all love to travel in some SECR coaches (and I did just that the other week at the KESR), such coaches were the reason why my Grandparents decided to start travelling to the Kent coast by coach. (Or as my grandfather would describe them, 'charabanc'). 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wickham Green Posted July 4, 2016 Share Posted July 4, 2016 Whilst we'd all love to travel in some SECR coaches (and I did just that the other week at the KESR), such coaches were the reason why my Grandparents decided to start travelling to the Kent coast by coach. (Or as my grandfather would describe them, 'charabanc'). I hope you're not confusing the K.E.S.R.'s beautifully restored S.E.C.R. coach bodies on S.R. parcels van chassis - WITH AUTHENTIC PARCELS VAN SUSPENSION - with anything that might have been running on the Southern in your grandparents' day !!?! ( ditto Bluebell, Isle of Wight etc.) They'd have travelled in bogie vehicles such as the Bluebell's 3363 which might have been more than a little musty if they weren't in regular use ( or maybe if they were ) and - without lavatories for the majority - they couldn't be pulled over at the roadside if someone 'needed a bush' ! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete_mcfarlane Posted July 4, 2016 Share Posted July 4, 2016 They've got a couple of bogie vehicles as well - a 54' brake vehicle (which was in use when I visited the other week) and a rather nice saloon. The brake vehicle is more typical of the long sets used by holidaymakers. Mind you, I travelled in a Pacer yesterday that nearly launched itself in to the air going over a dodgy bit of track. So much for progress. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wickham Green Posted July 4, 2016 Share Posted July 4, 2016 They've got a couple of bogie vehicles as well - a 54' brake vehicle (which was in use when I visited the other week) and a rather nice saloon. The brake vehicle is more typical of the long sets used by holidaymakers. Mind you, I travelled in a Pacer yesterday that nearly launched itself in to the air going over a dodgy bit of track. So much for progress. Well, the Pacer chassis was developed from a goods wagon design - not even a parcels van - so what d'you expect ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Market65 Posted July 4, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 4, 2016 I remember a class 142 Pacer that went into the air at Ferriby over a facing point on a Hull to York journey a couple of years ago. It was literally shocking! Regards, Rob. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fireline Posted July 5, 2016 Share Posted July 5, 2016 I hope you're not confusing the K.E.S.R.'s beautifully restored S.E.C.R. coach bodies on S.R. parcels van chassis - WITH AUTHENTIC PARCELS VAN SUSPENSION - with anything that might have been running on the Southern in your grandparents' day !!?! ( ditto Bluebell, Isle of Wight etc.) They'd have travelled in bogie vehicles such as the Bluebell's 3363 which might have been more than a little musty if they weren't in regular use ( or maybe if they were ) and - without lavatories for the majority - they couldn't be pulled over at the roadside if someone 'needed a bush' ! Speaking as one of the people who has helped restore at least two of those coaches, I have some bad news to break. The suspension isn't authentic parcels van on all of them. Some of them have been re-sprung recently with softer, more bottom-friendly springs. In fact, of the current SECR Victorian set, only two of them are on PMV frames. The family saloon and the Birdcage are on their "original" frames. We were approximately 60 years too late to preserve the original frames for the "Ashford" bodies, though! 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wickham Green Posted July 5, 2016 Share Posted July 5, 2016 Speaking as one of the people who has helped restore at least two of those coaches, I have some bad news to break. The suspension isn't authentic parcels van on all of them. Some of them have been re-sprung recently with softer, more bottom-friendly springs. In fact, of the current SECR Victorian set, only two of them are on PMV frames. The family saloon and the Birdcage are on their "original" frames. We were approximately 60 years too late to preserve the original frames for the "Ashford" bodies, though! Sorry, I stand corrected ! ( or sit-down corrected in greater comfort, perhaps )................. I think you may be a little conservative with 60 years ........?............ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fireline Posted July 5, 2016 Share Posted July 5, 2016 Sorry, I stand corrected ! ( or sit-down corrected in greater comfort, perhaps )................. I think you may be a little conservative with 60 years ........?............ I did say approximately! Grounded 1921, rescued 1986. 65 Years. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IWCR Posted July 5, 2016 Share Posted July 5, 2016 All the IOW examples also have softer springs fitted. All these were Parcel & Mail Van underframes these were originally designed for passenger rated trains and built accordingly. (rated for 70mph working) The softer springs are used due to the weight difference in the finished loaded vehicle, an empty original PMV (whatever the body) will be a harsh ride Many railways produced both carriages and vans on similar or identical underfames. The use was irrelevant Yes the PMV frames are later and there was by then no corresponding passenger carriage but this doesnt make them in any way less suitable. The big difference in riding in a 4 wheel carriage is noise, Because you are not isolated from the wheelsets and brakes by secondary bogie suspension all brake noise is more noticable, this is more so in a third class vehicle which do not have a double skinned or insulated floor. Lack of comfort due to the more primitive suspension compared to a bogie carriage is not a problem at heritage railway speeds, what is prominent on the thirds are the narrower seats and reduced leg room, this is due to the standards of the time rather than underframe construction. Pete Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wickham Green Posted July 5, 2016 Share Posted July 5, 2016 I did say approximately! Grounded 1921, rescued 1986. 65 Years. ....... and I said a LITTLE conservative ........... OK, I was thinking more in terms of restoration date rather than rescue date ! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wickham Green Posted July 5, 2016 Share Posted July 5, 2016 All the IOW examples also have softer springs fitted. All these were Parcel & Mail Van underframes these were originally designed for passenger rated trains and built accordingly. (rated for 70mph working) The softer springs are used due to the weight difference in the finished loaded vehicle, an empty original PMV (whatever the body) will be a harsh ride Many railways produced both carriages and vans on similar or identical underfames. The use was irrelevant Yes the PMV frames are later and there was by then no corresponding passenger carriage but this doesnt make them in any way less suitable. The big difference in riding in a 4 wheel carriage is noise, Because you are not isolated from the wheelsets and brakes by secondary bogie suspension all brake noise is more noticable, this is more so in a third class vehicle which do not have a double skinned or insulated floor. Lack of comfort due to the more primitive suspension compared to a bogie carriage is not a problem at heritage railway speeds, what is prominent on the thirds are the narrower seats and reduced leg room, this is due to the standards of the time rather than underframe construction. Pete I think that before the S.E.C.R. four-wheeled vans ( and Southern / B.R. clones ) parcels probably rode on longer ( = softer ) springs than they deserved ! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Graham_Muz Posted August 6, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 6, 2016 The first Engineering Prototypes of the Bachamnn Birdcage Trio C Sets have now broken cover see them along with further information on the sets here on my blog https://grahammuz.com/2016/08/03/Bachmann-update-and-first-pictures-of-the-ex-secr-60-birdcage-stock/ 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
47606odin Posted August 6, 2016 Share Posted August 6, 2016 (edited) don't worry, found the answer :-) Edited August 6, 2016 by 47606odin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fireline Posted August 8, 2016 Share Posted August 8, 2016 The first Engineering Prototypes of the Bachamnn Birdcage Trio C Sets have now broken cover see them along with further information on the sets here on my blog https://grahammuz.com/2016/08/03/Bachmann-update-and-first-pictures-of-the-ex-secr-60-birdcage-stock/ What's the betting that the Birdcages sneak back into the Drawing Office when no-one's looking? They were in there so long, I'll bet they're homesick now! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertiedog Posted August 8, 2016 Share Posted August 8, 2016 Bachmann via Hattons have now said as of 8/8/16 that the coaches should be available in May 2017.......Hmm.... Chinese years perhaps Stephen Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
47606odin Posted August 9, 2016 Share Posted August 9, 2016 Bachmann via Hattons have now said as of 8/8/16 that the coaches should be available in May 2017.......Hmm.... Chinese years perhaps Stephen thats fine, i can wait. my credit card is full up with other stuff at the moment Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSpencer Posted August 9, 2016 Share Posted August 9, 2016 (edited) Bachmann via Hattons have now said as of 8/8/16 that the coaches should be available in May 2017.......Hmm.... Chinese years perhaps Stephen With the huge spate of southern items recently: (June - Hornby class 71) July - Hornby Adams radials August - Hornby LSWR coaches September - Bachmann/Modelrail USA tanks October - SECR Terrier and Oxford EKR radial (that will probably be just me) November - DJM class 71 (I have one paid for and the other Hattons one pending) I am sure every ones credit cards could do with a rest. Mind you 2017 could see: SECR birdcages H2 Atlantic Original Merchant Navy 4-TC A hefty program for sure. Edited August 9, 2016 by JSpencer Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wickham Green Posted August 9, 2016 Share Posted August 9, 2016 With the huge spate of southern items recently: (June - Hornby class 71) July - Hornby Adams radials August - Hornby LSWR coaches September - Bachmann/Modelrail USA tanks October - SECR Terrier and Oxford EKR radial (that will probably be just me) November - DJM class 71 (I have one paid for and the other Hattons one pending) I am sure every ones credit cards could do with a rest. Mind you 2017 could see: SECR birdcages H2 Atlantic Original Merchant Navy 4-TC A hefty program for sure. Not to mention two varieties of cattle wagons from Hornby, an L.S.W.R. brake van from D.J.Models and a B4 tank from Dapol .............. though the latter two have gone rather quiet of late ! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronny Posted August 9, 2016 Share Posted August 9, 2016 Your shopping list is very close to mine but I would have ditched it completely if the SECR birdcages had been available. However B's loss is H's gain. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatC Posted August 10, 2016 Share Posted August 10, 2016 I'd pretty much decided that I wouldn't be trying to acquire any of the Bachmann SECR stock when it comes out, much as I like all things Southern my interests tend to lie more to the west and the new Hornby LSWR rebuilds and the forthcoming Kernow gate set pretty much fulfil my needs. Then I visited the KESR last weekend and both saw and rode in the truly magnificent birdcage brake. Damn it! How am I supposed to resist buying model of something that looks so fantastic? Well done KESR C&W dept. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenGiraffe22 Posted August 10, 2016 Share Posted August 10, 2016 The Bachmann carriages are perfect for my layout and I can not wait! =D I am even prepared to part with ,what, £150 for the trio? eeek. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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