What have you done with your Keyser kit

[hayfield]

Just a bit of a heads up with this eBay sale (nothing to do with me

 

 

 

Seema to have been super detailed

 

 

Even has brake gear, not too certain about the wheels, either early K's or after market

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/175427079999?hash=item28d844cf3f:g:cuwAAOSw5yljJJqq&amdata=enc%3AAQAHAAAAoFCtz0DUiZS3uZWj9YfQyjwMWxMv7aXUAPOL3riC4mQ6yhUiVsKYn9IxVQ1f%2BHlwBmPX5GCKEles1q3PmGFvHTOQP1Eq2dcs8j2Aa2fb6OAdUZrOVLSjlVZKsFbqp%2Fe27KbqUFBhm5Aor0psbdavTppzNw5oKr17U0quJkc5lcO0Qle45miGwea9nVnrpSvHIQmfWHDSkC%2BCqhJUq%2BqyhTc%3D|tkp%3ABk9SR8bAwJDvYA

[roythebus1]

Soldering white metal kits was used long before the 1960s. remember, those of that era who were skilled enough to have to build everything from scratch could solder, and not only with nambypamby electric iros, but those you had to heat up on the open fire or gas stove in the kitchen! 

 

When I worked in the York Way shop in about 1968 the guys in the workshops were very adept at soldering whitemetal kits. My first whitemetal kit was a Wills P class in 1965. I used the new Evo-Stick for that. Later rebuild featured low melt solder. I still have the loco though it now has a more modern motor than the Triang XT60!

 

Did anyone ever manage to get a Ks Beyer-Garret to work?

Edited October 1, 2022 by roythebus1
typo

[roythebus1]

Meanwhile trying to make a couple of Black fives from the box of 4 of them I bought many years ago. there ought to be enough to finish 3 of them. currently looking at the chassis of one fitted with a Kean Portescap mech with Romford wheels. the valve gear is a bit tight on one part which is causing problems. And a few missing cast bits like a front step and a chassis extension to find or make.

[hayfield]

59 minutes ago, roythebus1 said:

Meanwhile trying to make a couple of Black fives from the box of 4 of them I bought many years ago. there ought to be enough to finish 3 of them. currently looking at the chassis of one fitted with a Kean Portescap mech with Romford wheels. the valve gear is a bit tight on one part which is causing problems. And a few missing cast bits like a front step and a chassis extension to find or make.

The RG4 is a great find. But the Black fives are not the easiest kits to find. I hope the RG4 finds a chassis it deserves 

[roythebus1]

I've noticed the Black Five had quite a few differences over the years. Comparing one with the brass chassis and the later one with the etched super-detail chassis, I've noticed a difference in boiler length, cab side detail is different, as are cab backplate details. The later casting has some blemishes on the firebox top which I'm trying to file away. It may be easier to unsolder them and re-make them. 

 

Quite where the domes have gone is a mystery, missing balance weights on the s/d chassis with Romford wheels, steps that have fallen off, as well as the missing front footplate on another. I've still got 2 more to find, I know they're here somewhere.

 

I've also found 2 partly-built bodies for what appears to be a 2-6-4T and a smaller 2-6-2T, both minus chassis and an Adams Radial more or less complete. Maybe eBay fodder unless anyone here is interested.

 

The reason I got so many LMS locos was in the late 1960s early 1970s the MRC's layout was joint LMS/GWR, so being in the trade I got Ks kits for a good price and started building locos for the layout. That subsequently got dismantled in the late 1970s and replaced with something a bit more up-to-date. So I was left with all these expensive half-made kits. It is only now during semi-retirement that I'm finding time to sort out what I've got. Like 100-odd GS Models Bus Kits, a batch of 20 Met Railway F class body kits...

Edited October 7, 2022 by roythebus1

[hayfield]

4 hours ago, roythebus1 said:

I've noticed the Black Five had quite a few differences over the years. Comparing one with the brass chassis and the later one with the etched super-detail chassis, I've noticed a difference in boiler length, cab side detail is different, as are cab backplate details. The later casting has some blemishes on the firebox top which I'm trying to file away. It may be easier to unsolder them and re-make them. 

 

Quite where the domes have gone is a mystery, missing balance weights on the s/d chassis with Romford wheels, steps that have fallen off, as well as the missing front footplate on another. I've still got 2 more to find, I know they're here somewhere.

 

I've also found 2 partly-built bodies for what appears to be a 2-6-4T and a smaller 2-6-2T, both minus chassis and an Adams Radial more or less complete. Maybe eBay fodder unless anyone here is interested.

 

The reason I got so many LMS locos was in the late 1960s early 1970s the MRC's layout was joint LMS/GWR, so being in the trade I got Ks kits for a good price and started building locos for the layout. That subsequently got dismantled in the late 1970s and replaced with something a bit more up-to-date. So I was left with all these expensive half-made kits. It is only now during semi-retirement that I'm finding time to sort out what I've got. Like 100-odd GS Models Bus Kits, a batch of 20 Met Railway F class body kits...

 

I have never come across a K’s etched chassis, coupling rods and motion. Over time NuCast brought in basic etched loco frames. If a loco has a decent etched chassis it’s very likely an after market item. Could one of the black 5’s be another make?

 

I cannot recall K’s making a LMS 2-6-4T. It’s either a pre-group or a Wills kit though at one time there were quite a few companies offering ranges which overlapped each other. 
 

My first 7mm GWR 14/48xx I assumed was  Springside model, until I bought one. My knowledge of 7mm kits is very lacking 

 

Part of the charm of refurbishing old kits is finding out about them, both their history as well as improvements 

[Jeff Smith]

5 hours ago, roythebus1 said:

a batch of 20 Met Railway F class body kits...

South East Finecast?  How come so many?

[Steamport Southport]

6 hours ago, hayfield said:

 

I have never come across a K’s etched chassis, coupling rods and motion. Over time NuCast brought in basic etched loco frames. If a loco has a decent etched chassis it’s very likely an after market item. Could one of the black 5’s be another make?

 

I cannot recall K’s making a LMS 2-6-4T. It’s either a pre-group or a Wills kit though at one time there were quite a few companies offering ranges which overlapped each other. 
 

My first 7mm GWR 14/48xx I assumed was  Springside model, until I bought one. My knowledge of 7mm kits is very lacking 

 

Part of the charm of refurbishing old kits is finding out about them, both their history as well as improvements 

 

The later kits had etched chassis. Ones released from about 1982.

 

https://www.hattons.co.uk/509164/keyser_k_s_l50_4_6_0_lord_nelson_steam_locomotive_kit/stockdetail

 

They had started revamping the earlier kits when they were taken over by Autocom.

 

 

Jason

[Coach bogie]

1 hour ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

The later kits had etched chassis. Ones released from about 1982.

 

https://www.hattons.co.uk/509164/keyser_k_s_l50_4_6_0_lord_nelson_steam_locomotive_kit/stockdetail

 

They had started revamping the earlier kits when they were taken over by Autocom.

 

 

Jason

Maybe, but I doubt if that chassis was made by K's. The chassis is a similar design to the Rod Neep outputs at the time, which I think K's bought in. Some of the later complete kits came with assembled valve gear.

 

Some model shops used to add chassis from their own source to the K's body only kits. I have a K's Grange from Kemp Models supplied with Kemilway Prairie chassis.

 

Mike Wiltshire

Edited October 7, 2022 by Coach bogie

[hayfield]

11 hours ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

The later kits had etched chassis. Ones released from about 1982.

 

https://www.hattons.co.uk/509164/keyser_k_s_l50_4_6_0_lord_nelson_steam_locomotive_kit/stockdetail

 

They had started revamping the earlier kits when they were taken over by Autocom.

 

 

Jason

 

Jason

 

thanks for that, I guess it was a logical progression, as they firstly pioneered using plastic parts and had used etching for coupling rods and motion for some time

 

A great pity it came so late as it could have turned the tide in the companies fortunes 

 

I have only come across Autocom/NuCast etched chassis which in the main were basic

[Steamport Southport]

15 hours ago, Coach bogie said:

Maybe, but I doubt if that chassis was made by K's. The chassis is a similar design to the Rod Neep outputs at the time, which I think K's bought in. Some of the later complete kits came with assembled valve gear.

 

Some model shops used to add chassis from their own source to the K's body only kits. I have a K's Grange from Kemp Models supplied with Kemilway Prairie chassis.

 

Mike Wiltshire

 

Yes. They were almost certainly done by an outside source.

 

They were in the normal kits as they were like that in Hattons when they had acquired all the unsold stock and was flogging them off at a discount. I had a good browse through them at the time.

 

Pity I didn't stock up on them, but they were mostly well out of my budget apart from the cheaper kits such as the 14XX and the 4575. Hindsight is a wonderful thing.

 

 

Jason

[hayfield]

There was one company selling the kits as bodyline only for a short period. Quite possibly others added their own chassis 

[Steamport Southport]

1 hour ago, hayfield said:

There was one company selling the kits as bodyline only for a short period. Quite possibly others added their own chassis 

 

K's themselves did. 

 

 

Did anyone on here snap up the ones at Hattons the other day? I was tempted myself but thought I have too many unbuilt ones at the moment and they weren't rarities.

 

1361, 63XX and a Grange. Mint in the shrinkwrap and complete in a good box. Priced between £30 and £50.

 

I was going to post them on this thread but they went.

 

 

Jason

Edited October 8, 2022 by Steamport Southport

[Coach bogie]

This was the last K's kit bought from the final days of production distributed by the short lived, Teign Models.  All others since have been second hand/old stock.  It had the milled frames but etched coal rails for the tender and a full set of etched names/numbers. I replaced the tender as I wanted a later version.

 

Scary to consider this was nearly 40 years ago. Where did the time go.

 

Mike Wiltshire

 

[Steamport Southport]

Lovely.

 

Didn't all the "early stuff" end up with the BGS via IKB Models? I seem to remember they did a run of some of them about ten years ago. But none I wanted. 

 

Unfortunately the website is difficult to navigate. Had a flick through but couldn't find them.

 

https://www.broadgauge.org.uk/index.html

 

 

I can see the second hand kit market being flooded with unbuilt and half built Lions soon though!

 

 

Jason

[roythebus1]

On 07/10/2022 at 16:38, Jeff Smith said:

South East Finecast?  How come so many?

GS Models, the original Met F class kit. I produced the kit a while before Finecast did theirs. I ran GS Models from about 1968 doing bus kits then ventured into railway stuff, the F class and plastic VGA wagon which was made by Keyser for me. the F class patterns were made by a chap called Ian who used to do a lot of bits for Langley. He sadly passed away soon after he done the F class. found dead at his workbench.

I sold the bus kit range to Adrian Swain who made some of the patterns for me, but I kept the rights to the F class and patterns. I later sold them to Finecast as I didn't really want to go into competition with him back in 1980! I've got a few boxes of bits, maybe enough to complete 20 models. But no chassis! I also sold my kits with transfers and loco crew. The patterns were amongst the first to utilise brass etchings for rivet detail.

 

[roythebus1]

I'm 99% certain the Black Fives I've got are all K's products. Ive got at least 2 with etched chassis and Keen Portescap motors. when I find the others I'll take pics and compare them. I don't remember buying any other Black Fives as there were no others available in the mid 1970s. As for the tank locos, it could be that the bigger one is a Wills kit.

 

Thinking of the Black Fives, the casting that holds the cylinders on is the same in both variants as are the cylinders. I'm away from home this week so will investigate further when I get back! Another mystery..Again thinking back, there were retrieved from a box in Mum's loft, stuff I thought had been taken from a club premises in north London in the early 1970s. I must have left stuff there when I got married in 1973!

 

I've also found my 1966 Will P class and a couple of Wills 02s from the 1968/69 period!

Edited October 10, 2022 by roythebus1

[Player of trains]

Hello everyone, I've just picked up the LSWR Falcon kit, while I'm waiting for it to arrive I was hoping if I could get some pointers on motorising it and ask if anyone else had a finished model? I built a keyser terrier I picked up years ago at Warley and owned a few other models and I know the chassis was never the strong point or the wheels being true, I'll know when its in my hands but how were the milestones locos for this and the Falcon? I did notice it seems to have a brass chassis over the whitemetal blocks of the usual range. I know it had a separate motorising kit too, that certainly won't be available now so what would be the best modern alternative? 

 

Cheers. 

 

Alec

[Steamport Southport]

13 minutes ago, Player of trains said:

Hello everyone, I've just picked up the LSWR Falcon kit, while I'm waiting for it to arrive I was hoping if I could get some pointers on motorising it and ask if anyone else had a finished model? I built a keyser terrier I picked up years ago at Warley and owned a few other models and I know the chassis was never the strong point or the wheels being true, I'll know when its in my hands but how were the milestones locos for this and the Falcon? I did notice it seems to have a brass chassis over the whitemetal blocks of the usual range. I know it had a separate motorising kit too, that certainly won't be available now so what would be the best modern alternative? 

 

Cheers. 

 

Alec

 

Personally I would be looking at something from High Level to motorise it.

 

One of their gearboxes and a small motor. Many are made for tiny industrial locomotives so should fit.

 

https://www.highlevelkits.co.uk/

 

 

Jason

[Player of trains]

1 hour ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

Personally I would be looking at something from High Level to motorise it.

 

One of their gearboxes and a small motor. Many are made for tiny industrial locomotives so should fit.

 

https://www.highlevelkits.co.uk/

 

 

Jason

 

Thanks Jason, Highlevel are the ones' I'm already looking at, probably the high flier if it fits. I was mostly wondering too if there was a specific aftermarket chassis kit as are usually available if you know the right summoning ritual.

[Steamport Southport]

I'm unsure. I know some of them did get replacement chassis and upgraded detail when they were reissued by IKB Models.

 

Lion definitely did, don't know about the others.

 

 

Jason

[locomad2]

While making and awaiting glue to set on work in progress with Southern N1, decided to make a start on remotorising a old K's or Wills finecast 2nd hand kit. Body tender and some chassis parts purchased as a job lot recently from a local model show.

 

It's a LMS fowler 4F, very tatty reasonable well made, as purchased 

 

 

 

 

Decided this time a Triang Hornby 0-6-0 chassis (1971?)  with a X04 motor would make a suitable chassis, almost idea fit for wheel spacing, fitting motor into firebox etc. For ease of maintenance clip fit it into rear of body at the same time as trying to get the same correct buffer height, chassis stripped mounted in vice and cut up a bit, plus some work on body at rear

 

 

 

[hayfield]

4 hours ago, locomad2 said:

While making and awaiting glue to set on work in progress with Southern N1, decided to make a start on remotorising a old K's or Wills finecast 2nd hand kit. Body tender and some chassis parts purchased as a job lot recently from a local model show.

 

It's a LMS fowler 4F, very tatty reasonable well made, as purchased 

 

 

 

 

Decided this time a Triang Hornby 0-6-0 chassis (1971?)  with a X04 motor would make a suitable chassis, almost idea fit for wheel spacing, fitting motor into firebox etc. For ease of maintenance clip fit it into rear of body at the same time as trying to get the same correct buffer height, chassis stripped mounted in vice and cut up a bit, plus some work on body at rear

 

 

 

 

 

Its a Wills/Wills Finecast kit, which was designed to accept the  Triang/Hornby  Jinty chassis.  SEF has a bespoke replacement for the Triang/Hornby tender loco version of the Jinty chassis which now has full brake gear.  Think its the FC 202, these and the earlier Wills/Southeastern Finecase basic etched chassis FC102 (basic etched chassis with no brake gear) come up second hand quite often/ They also allow for the motor to be repositioned leaving room for a full cab detail.

 

Southeastern Finecast updated these locos sometime ago and I think it now has a bespoke chassis (FC179) though the wheelbase may differ and has cab details. Squires who now own the range are happy to supply spares, I have in the past updated the older (Wills) range locos using the new additional parts and or new chassis from the revised kits

[locomad2]

On 19/11/2022 at 07:05, hayfield said:

 

 

Its a Wills/Wills Finecast kit, which was designed to accept the  Triang/Hornby  Jinty chassis.  SEF has a bespoke replacement for the Triang/Hornby tender loco version of the Jinty chassis which now has full brake gear.  Think its the FC 202, these and the earlier Wills/Southeastern Finecase basic etched chassis FC102 

 

Yes suspect it more likely a Wills kit and recommended chassis a triang 0-6-0 with X04 motor, plus the triang one also has about correct wheel spacing

 

After much cutting away frames supports inside the chassis finally got the triang 0-6-0 chassis and X04 to fit

 

The X04 is a little wider than say a Hornby Dublo 1/2 inch motor on a R1 chassis due to wider Bush supports which are easily broken, this motor came out of a GWR pannier tank and was stuck between the inner side Tank sides

 

 

 

Would have liked to have it fitted to exact height but the coupling rods started to short on inner splasher plates, plus previous builder used a lot of filler side and the plates looked very weak, Some time spent on getting correct fitting right

 

 

 

Finally layout test. Overall good fit, however original X04 motor  proved "gutless" due to a poor magnet strength easily replaced with a stronger one. Very pleased with haulage capacity this one pulled 35 Hornby Dublo type coal wagons

 

 

[DavidStarbuck]

Hi, Happy Christmas to my fellow K's modellers.

I wonder if someone can give me a bit of advice please?

I am building a Jubilee, however most of the rivets for the valvegear have gone missing over the years it has been in storage. They are so tiny!!

Can anybody suggest a source for replacements or any ideas of a suitable alternative I can use please ?

 

Regards

David