Andy Y Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 BRM states the locos are fitted with coreless motors and HM reckons it has a five pole motor. I fear an error may have crept in there, AFAIK it's a traditional 5-pole. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Decorum Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 I fear an error may have crept in there, AFAIK it's a traditional 5-pole. Please excuse my ignorance. I always assumed that Bachmann used three-pole motors. I have noticed that poor runners from Bachmann have become rarer. Have we any idea of when five-pole motors began to be used? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
34theletterbetweenB&D Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 Thanks for that. Any idea about the thing that looks like a stayalive? A capacitor for suppression purposes. Bachmann started with this larger capacitor in the tender some time ago, first model I saw it on was the J11 0-6-0. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 Looking at the head on photo of the model in HM it appears that the steam pipes are solid to the smokebox - no gap behind them. This is incorrect for the preserved 42968 - is it correct for any of the class? A glance at photos of real engines shows the 'air' gap behind the steam pipes is so small as to be not worth talking about in 4mm scale. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold MikeParkin65 Posted February 10, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 10, 2017 A glance at photos of real engines shows the 'air' gap behind the steam pipes is so small as to be not worth talking about in 4mm scale. I did glance at photos and I think it is obvious and will be more so when the loco is weathered but each to their own. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 I did glance at photos and I think it is obvious and will be more so when the loco is weathered but each to their own. I give up!!!!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
daltonparva Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 A capacitor for suppression purposes. Bachmann started with this larger capacitor in the tender some time ago, first model I saw it on was the J11 0-6-0. Thanks for that. I presume therefore that it can be done away with when DCC-ing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Porcy Mane Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 (edited) A glance at photos of real engines shows the 'air' gap behind the steam pipes is so small as to be not worth talking about in 4mm scale. Despite being in shadow, this 1963 view may throw a little light on the subject. P Edited February 10, 2017 by Porcy Mane 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free At Last Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 That gap is big enough for a gnat to crawl into. Will be getting the dremel on to mine. Not. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Porcy Mane Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 This 1964 pic is a little more objective. P 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Midland Mole Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 We should be getting the LMS version in the shop Mon/Tue. I am looking forward to it. Alex Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Legend Posted February 10, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 10, 2017 I did glance at photos and I think it is obvious and will be more so when the loco is weathered but each to their own. Yes Railway Modeller also questioning the Steam Pipes pointing out there should be a space. Also note to get it to run on anything less than third radius you can't fit the front steps . I also hadn't realised the tender was an existing Bachmann model. I suppose it was on the Crab 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted February 10, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 10, 2017 I give up!!!!! Don't think it will be as obvious as the missing row of rivets. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Metr0Land Posted February 10, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 10, 2017 Don't think it will be as obvious as the missing row of rivets. Or the fact the wheels are only about 4'2" apart? 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold tractionman Posted February 10, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 10, 2017 I was so looking forward to this release. I'm a bit put off now by some of the criticisms identified so far, especially the steam pipes and large screw on the coupling rod, but I might live with these, it's the lack of rivet detail on the tender that puts me off most from purchasing one. The picture I had seen a while back did show rivet lines on the tender of the LMS liveried example http://www.hattons.co.uk/60880/Bachmann_Branchline_31_690_Class_5P4F_Stanier_Mogul_2_6_0_2965_in_LMS_lined_black/StockDetail.aspx Without these it looks a bit flat? What do others think? At £135 I'm looking for perfection in Mogul form! Cheers, Keith Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Tomlinson Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 I was so looking forward to this release. I'm a bit put off now by some of the criticisms identified so far, especially the steam pipes and large screw on the coupling rod, but I might live with these, it's the lack of rivet detail on the tender that puts me off most from purchasing one. The picture I had seen a while back did show rivet lines on the tender of the LMS liveried example http://www.hattons.co.uk/60880/Bachmann_Branchline_31_690_Class_5P4F_Stanier_Mogul_2_6_0_2965_in_LMS_lined_black/StockDetail.aspx Without these it looks a bit flat? What do others think? At £135 I'm looking for perfection in Mogul form! Cheers, Keith For the Crab Bachmann produced two tenders, one with visible rivets and the other not - prototype either welded or flush riveted. So no reason they couldn't supply a tender with visible rivets for this, on the assumptyion that the tender is otherwise the same. John. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Ian Hargrave Posted February 10, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 10, 2017 (edited) Yes Railway Modeller also questioning the Steam Pipes pointing out there should be a space. Also note to get it to run on anything less than third radius you can't fit the front steps . I also hadn't realised the tender was an existing Bachmann model. I suppose it was on the Crab And on the Patriot and Jubilee.Seriously are the criticisms I read above going to deter a purchase of this model ? Answers not necessary. Edited February 10, 2017 by Ian Hargrave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium jjb1970 Posted February 10, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 10, 2017 Looks like a rather splendid model to me, well done Bachmann! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Midland Mole Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 (edited) I have been waiting for this FAR too long to be put off by, in my opinion, minor issues. I think it looks great and I have been impressed by all the pictures I have seen of it so far. Alex Edit: Also, looking at the pictures Andy Y posted here: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/72039-Bachmann-stanier-mogul/page-6&do=findComment&comment=2516289 those look like plenty of rivets to me. Edited February 10, 2017 by Midland Mole 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buhar Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 On the magazine reviews and Hatton's images, it looks like the LMS version has a flush rivetted tender as does the BR early crest one. The late crest BR version is rivetted. The :LMS (and BR LMR) swapped tenders at almost every shopping, so to be sure of which is appropriate you need a dated photo. Or to allow for choice, an absence of photos. The latter is not too difficult for pre-war views. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Turpin Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 (edited) I've seen the pictures, and it's an F-ing amazing piece of work in my opinion, and I say to anyone who is hung up on preposterously pedantic detail errors: clearly you don't want one of these. Otherwise,with your exacting standards ,you will go away and come back with pictures of the superior kitbuilt or scratchbuilt model you have managed to construct, so we can see how the results of your skills are such a vast advance on what Bachmann have presented us with. When this happens, will all laud your efforts and sing your praises. Until this happens, however, please do not comment further! Edited February 10, 2017 by Dick Turpin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold tractionman Posted February 10, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 10, 2017 I have been waiting for this FAR too long to be put off by, in my opinion, minor issues. I think it looks great and I have been impressed by all the pictures I have seen of it so far. Alex Edit: Also, looking at the pictures Andy Y posted here: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/72039-Bachmann-stanier-mogul/page-6&do=findComment&comment=2516289 those look like plenty of rivets to me. Thanks, yes, that's exactly what I was expecting the tender to be like on the LMS version, as shown also in the BRM review, but not the Railway Modeller review,which made me curious. From comments above it seems these locos also ran with flush-rivetted tenders, something I'd not spotted in photos of the locos in LMS days such as those in Essery and Jenkinson's book on the standard designs. All the best, Keith 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Midland Mole Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 (edited) Thanks, yes, that's exactly what I was expecting the tender to be like on the LMS version, as shown also in the BRM review, but not the Railway Modeller review,which made me curious. From comments above it seems these locos also ran with flush-rivetted tenders, something I'd not spotted in photos of the locos in LMS days such as those in Essery and Jenkinson's book on the standard designs. All the best, Keith It is strange that there seem to be conflicting images of the tenders. The only way to know for sure is when we see them in the flesh I suppose. I'm still looking forward to it no matter which tender it comes with. Alex Edit: If I remember, I will take a photo of the tender when we get them in. Edited February 10, 2017 by Midland Mole 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold tractionman Posted February 10, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 10, 2017 (edited) Cheers Alex, that would be great. It's a fine looking model from the photos I've seen so far. Looking at BRM the review does state that the 'level of rivet detail on the prototype... is well captured... particularly on the tender '. Now,I'm no rivet counter (no disrespect to those who are) but I do like the look of a rivetted tender...! All the best, Keith Edited February 10, 2017 by Keith Lilley Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold adb968008 Posted February 10, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 10, 2017 (edited) The original Bachmann crabs didn't have DCC or plugged tenders, I suspect if this tender is being reused, that it comes from the more recent Patriot/Jubilee/4p 4-4-0 line.However it may share the early Crab tender for ancestry, but it too may have history, from the Mainline fowler tender used on Mainline Jubilees 45700 Amethyst, 45698 Mars etc.. When I put 45700 Amethyst's tender next to a Bachmann DCC ready 4p's tender to me there's no difference in it apart from mounting positions for DCC, screws & drawbar hooks & buffers (tooling enhancements over the years ?) , I recently put a DCC fowler tender ex-4P behind an old nonDCC crab with no mods at all needed, and apart from a draw bar hook, I could put Ameythsts too and it'd look near identical...dimensions, shape even aspects like the brake handle on the footplate.There are two different toolings of fowler tender... riveted and smooth (flush rivet or welded), both have been produced on Jubilees, Patriots, Crabs and the 4-4-0 by Bachmann and Mainline over the years.Hornby has at least 3 fowler toolings, the ex-Airfix/Dapol tender used on the 2p / 4f (smooth) and its own railroad tender from the Patriot / 4p (riveted and smooth). They may have the Lima tooling too, but doubt we'd ever see it.[Edit]: Two of All Bachmanns Stanier crabs are with rivet tenders that I saw at Warley, did the real thing only ever run with rivet tenders ? {Addendum]: I seem to have forgotten to look at my own pictures... post-20773-0-54007900-1480157800.jpg it clearly is a smooth tender doh ! Edited February 11, 2017 by adb968008 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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