For those interested in old cars.

[johnlambert]

On 24/04/2019 at 22:06, big jim said:

Another car that most wont consider to be a ‘classic’ but again it’s old

 

this was my 1999 SEAT Ibiza gti Cupra sport that I got in 2013 off eBay for £300, spent a small fortune on it getting it lowered, stainless exhaust, induction kit, strut brace, bigger wheels etc only to have it written off by a 96 year old who accidentally reversed into it at a junction about 9 months after I bought it

 

loved that car so much, it was a right laugh, 2L engine in it so went like stink

 

 

ended up selling it as a damage repairable on eBay, getting £500 for it 

 

there arent many left on the road now and certainly only a few in that lime green colour (which was actually classed as yellow!) 

I remember driving one of those when they were new.  I wasn't that keen on it, but I'm in no doubt that it was a very good car; lots of performance, plenty of grip, well balanced. 

 

Can't remember when I last saw an Ibiza of that generation.

[rockershovel]

On 26/04/2019 at 09:14, Porkscratching said:

Top man! Hope he makes it without too many snags!

I'd rather trust to something simple with points ignition etc than some electronic box of trickery if you're out in the bush..!

 

Ermmm... yes, but no. 

 

I can still fix points when they come loose but in this age of on-line sales, I can’t remember when I last saw a set on a dealer’s stock. The notion of “picking up spares along the way” is at least ten years out of date, more so for points which haven’t been usual in cars since the 90s.

 

That said, I’ve been driving Toyotas, Mitsubishis and what-not with electronic ignition, injection and/or engine management in all sorts of climates and conditions, for many years and I never give it a thought.

 

Come to that, I gave up trying to keep cranky, “value-engineered” magnetos in old motorcycles going, long ago - my 1970s Jawa speedway bike has a simple, low-tension mag exciting a generic CDI from a Honda 90 and it gives no trouble at all, except when it does (the Honda units last about six meetings, the vibration gets them in the end) and then I disconnect one wire, toss the CDI unit over the fence and fit another one. My flat track Sportster VVIIBBRRAATTEESS like a good ‘un but the electronic ignition just works, and it isn’t the only such bike around the flat track scene.. 

 

I don't look under the bonnet except to top up the screen wash and check the oil occasionally. That’s what modern vehicle electronics ARE, totally reliable.

 

 

Edited April 28, 2019 by rockershovel

[big jim]

11 hours ago, johnlambert said:

I'm in no doubt that it was a very good car; lots of performance, plenty of grip, well balanced. 

 

Nope!

 

rattly, plasticky, noisy, uncomfortable (and I doubt not much better new!) 

 

but i absolutely loved it  

[Porkscratching]

Well Rockershovel we all pays our money and takes our choice, I drive old cars and know how they work, and can usually fix them, hence would be my choice in the above 'expedition' type context.

Complex modern electrickery, for me.. Nein Danke.

[MJI]

If I was going on a long trip I would take some spares.

 

2 airbags

1 spare hydraulic hose

1 injector loom

1 crank sensor

1 aux belt

1 set injector seals

engine oil & other fluids

set of filters

 

This is for a vehicle with air suspension and active ARBs.

 

Of the spares some are for damage replacement, some are semi consumables and one is only sensor which can disable the engine.

 

This is a 15 year old car

[rockershovel]

Doing some background reading, I’m surprised to find that electronic ignition systems were first introduced in 1965 and Chrysler and Ford were fitting them to production cars by 1972..

[Kingzance]

6 minutes ago, rockershovel said:

Doing some background reading, I’m surprised to find that electronic ignition systems were first introduced in 1965 and Chrysler and Ford were fitting them to production cars by 1972..

The BL Rover V8 units in the SD1 had electronic ignition units and they were expensive cr@p. The main problem was with the wires unable to flex as the auto a/r mechanism turned for any length of time. I replaced them with fine-strand silicon covered wires and problem solved.

[Porkscratching]

Simple electronic ignition 'conversion kits' to replace the points etc but using the same distributor body, have been available for decades, some of the classic car boys swear by them....

I have to say that I've always preferred to keep the points, condenser etc set up , as it's easy to adjust / replace parts as necessary..

In modern times folk have had problems with crap replacement parts...there's a bloke calling himself

' Distributor Doctor' who supplies decent quality points ignition parts, so they are available.

[BernardTPM]

3 hours ago, rockershovel said:

Doing some background reading, I’m surprised to find that electronic ignition systems were first introduced in 1965 and Chrysler and Ford were fitting them to production cars by 1972..

Triumph introduced their 2.5 PI version of the "2000" in 1968, though not without some problems...

[rockershovel]

1 minute ago, BernardTPM said:

Triumph introduced their 2.5 PI version of the "2000" in 1968, though not without some problems...

 

Would that be the car my late brother referred to as the Triumph Snag? 

[Oldddudders]

21 minutes ago, rockershovel said:

 

Would that be the car my late brother referred to as the Triumph Snag? 

No, the 2.5PI was a saloon with four doors. The Stag was a stylish thing with only two doors and a 3 litre V8 of dubious longevity 

[alastairq]

4 hours ago, rockershovel said:

chrysler and Ford were fitting them to production cars by 1972..

  Without doing the research, I think GM pipped them to the post with regards to commonplace production? [I have a GM-based system on my Ford Mustang....bought because it was [a] cheaper], and more compact..than the Ford Duraglit system.   Subsequently, aftermarket firms altered the GM system to fit other makes of distributor/engine.

 

Usually called the HEI..the GM system had everything self-contained inside the distributor [cap]...so there was no 'king lead' to a coil. My [physically] smaller item has the GM stuff in the dizzy, but uses an external coil. Thus the dizzy top isn't so 'fat'...which is an issue on other makes of engine, especially V8s..[mine is a 6 pot]....

The other main advantage [certainly over what was originally on the car]....is that one can usefully use a low resistance coil [0.7 or thereabouts is usual]....thus the plug gaps can be made a lot wider,  [45 to 50 thou or more] and a bigger spark is the result...good if there are issues burning everything in the combustion chamber? Advance curves can be tailored [to a degree] with a selection of bobweight springs....Starting is instant, despite being left for weeks sometimes....hopefully there's a benefit of improved fuel consumption, although I haven't yet bothered to really 'fine-tune' things...being content with vacuum tuning a the moment.

 

This all came about because of the [California?] emissions rules that came in during the late 1960's....the same rules that the great-&-glorious VW concern, tried to deal with on the haircooled motors by retarding the timing for number 3 cylinder [via the dizzy cap, of all things]....said cylinder being hotter running due to its cooling airflow being obstructed by the oil cooler.......and by weakening the mixtures to such a degree, overheating was inevitable...poor old number 3! As a result, a known must-do check, conducted at 38000 miles, was to measure number three's exhaust valve length....it would stretch , the head drop off, and if unlucky, the resultant explosion would punch a hole in your crankcase.  

Guess how I know?  [Twice, never learnt]....

 

GM/Frord et al, also discovered huge production costs savings by going electronic...much much cheaper than precision-made mechanical distributors, coils, etc etc.....same with fuel injection..much cheaper to produce than precision-made carbs?

Edited April 28, 2019 by alastairq

[alastairq]

4 minutes ago, Oldddudders said:

No, the 2.5PI was a saloon with four doors. The Stag was a stylish thing with only two doors and a 3 litre V8 of dubious longevity 

The OP might just be right there? [Given the PI system's reliability?]

[alastairq]

It's a good job Vauxhall didn't have that early fuel injection? 

Imagine, the Magnum PI ?

[rockershovel]

I’m not surprised by the comment about production cost savings for electronic ignition. Disc brakes were widely touted as an improvement, but really the smaller earlier units in particular weren’t much real use, especially if they had the then-common chrome-plated discs. But they DID look very modern, and were much cheaper to produce and assemble than drums. 

 

The Harley “banana calliper” actually wasn’t a bad unit, provided it was set up right, and definitely much better than the preceding drums, which were about the worst brakes I’ve ever encountered on a large motorcycle - the old drum-brake Big Twin had, in effect, no useable front brake at all...

 

 

[PatB]

My father had the dubious distinction of burning a hole in all 6 piston crowns of a (someone else's) Triumph 2.5PI due to malfunction in the injection system. Reckoned it was an absolute rocket though, up to the point when all the power disappeared and most of the oil exited via the exhaust. 

[big jim]

The cooper is back, MOTd and taxed and running really well.

 

Fixed some spotlights to it yesterday, still got to wire them up but it’s looking smart with the 4 fitted up with the S badge fitted too, I will however change the mounting bolts for black ones (and shorter ones on the middle lamps)

 

 

Had my first proper drive in it earlier to ellesmere to my dads house and it certainly handles well and with it having the luxury of a metal roof it feels a lot firmer than the convertible but at the same time a lot smoother and quiet, well until the supercharger kicks in! 

[Jol Wilkinson]

I am still struggling to come to terms with a car that was built after I took (early) retirement as being regarded as old!

[alastairq]

10 hours ago, Jol Wilkinson said:

I am still struggling to come to terms with a car that was built after I took (early) retirement as being regarded as old!

 

I always struggled with the idea that buses I drove daily, [in 'anger', so to speak] are regarded as museum pieces now.....and were, even when I was in my middle thirties!

[Rugd1022]

Another dose of Americana.... in the mid '60s Pontiac went full steam ahead with their new 'wide track' chassis frame idea (one of John DeLorean's most successful during his time there) and the launch of the GTO series which meant a whole new range of cars appeared in one go requiring the publicity department to step up their already prolific rate of producing some beautiful advertising imagery, the two principal artists were Art Fitzpatrick and Van Kaufman who's drawing styles managed to match perfectly...

 

 

 

 

[steve1]

I know they were big cars but they look HUGE in those illustrations. Great nostalgia though. Reminds of my latter years in secondary school when US car mags were like gold dust.

 

steve

[Porkscratching]

Bigging things up is what advertising does!

Tho I years ago had a 1969 GMC Jimmy (which was a badged Dodge pu truck)

and that was WIDE !

Quite handy really as most people would look terrified and give way....

[Guest]

Gentleman pays a visit to a very odd used car dealer...

 

 

 

[figworthy]

11 hours ago, alastairq said:

 

I always struggled with the idea that buses I drove daily, [in 'anger', so to speak] are regarded as museum pieces now.....and were, even when I was in my middle thirties!

<sidetrack>

Many years ago I visited Bletchley Park, and when looking around the computer museum, I was more than a little amused to find that one of the exhibits was the successor model to the one that I was using on a regular basis at home.

</sidetrack>

 

Adrian

[rockershovel]

9 hours ago, Rugd1022 said:

Another dose of Americana.... in the mid '60s Pontiac went full steam ahead with their new 'wide track' chassis frame idea (one of John DeLorean's most successful during his time there) and the launch of the GTO series which meant a whole new range of cars appeared in one go requiring the publicity department to step up their already prolific rate of producing some beautiful advertising imagery, the two principal artists were Art Fitzpatrick and Van Kaufman who's drawing styles managed to match perfectly...

 

 

 

 

 

Weren't those late 60s and early 70s Detroit cars spectacularly handsome?  Pontiac GTO, Ford Thunderbird, Dodge Charger, Corvette Stingray...