cal.n Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 Is that an option for a closer coupling? If so, there must be some space (albeit small) in the back of the trolley car to accomodate the coupling for when using the close coupling?? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium PhilJ W Posted February 21, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 21, 2016 Just a quick question. When did these trolleys survive in service too? I have some of the on track plant models from the 'World of Stobart' collection and was wondering if any of them were contempory. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Combe Martin Posted February 21, 2016 Author Share Posted February 21, 2016 (edited) I've got three of the portram models which all run well and there are various mini motor units available from Japan too. How well do they run over dead frog points though, because that is why Bachmann have the trailer attached, to give more current collecting wheels and spread over a longer distance, because it's got to run over plastic frog track. The other problem is adhesion. In motorising the N Brass kit, John Isherwood (cctransuk) in post 212 above couldn't get enough weight into the trolly to make the wheels grip the rails. What he got was wheel spin which just made the pickup problem worse because it made the trolley bounce around. And that kit is made of nickel silver and he put lead into the roof space. John concluded that he could see why Bachmann had picked their solution, and they have apparently got a lot of weight into the trailer. Edited February 21, 2016 by Combe Martin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cal.n Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 The other problem is adhesion. In motorising the N Brass kit, John Isherwood (cctransuk) in post 212 above couldn't get enough weight into the trolly to make the wheels grip the rails. What he got was wheel spin which just made the pickup problem worse because it made the trolley bounce around. And that kit is made of nickel silver and he put lead into the roof space. John concluded that he could see why Bachmann had picked their solution, and they have apparently got a lot of weight into the trailer. You could also add more weight if cast figures and tools are used on the interior Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Combe Martin Posted February 21, 2016 Author Share Posted February 21, 2016 What are the wires from the powered trailer to the main car for, pickups? They are wires from the pickups in the trolley to the motor in the trailer, though now I look closely at the underside in the picture I notice there are 4 when surely only 2 are needed ?? The model is quoted by Bachmann as not being DCC ready (not surprising really, where would you put a socket) so they can't be for that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold PaulRhB Posted February 21, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 21, 2016 How well do they run over dead frog points though, because that is why Bachmann have the trailer attached, to give more current collecting wheels and spread over a longer distance, because it's got to run over plastic frog track. The other problem is adhesion. In motorising the N Brass kit, John Isherwood (cctransuk) in post 212 above couldn't get enough weight into the trolly to make the wheels grip the rails. What he got was wheel spin which just made the pickup problem worse because it made the trolley bounce around. And that kit is made of nickel silver and he put lead into the roof space. John concluded that he could see why Bachmann had picked their solution, and they have apparently got a lot of weight into the trailer. I can see why Bachmann did it too for the general market but I'm thinking of the options of just the passenger unit especially with live frogs I'm not decrying that just looking at other options. I see no problem with weight as I'd follow Johns method and fill the roof, use white metal figures and squeeze more in around the motor unit. These tiny 009 ones can run well on clean track and live frogs. Another option is to RC it using the deltang unit if the micro lipo would fit in the roof. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris89 Posted February 22, 2016 Share Posted February 22, 2016 Firstly sorry in advance as they aren't the center of the pic. But two examples from the Diesel and Electric show at Telford Yesterday (21st) Click for bigger. Chris 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dunsignalling Posted February 22, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 22, 2016 (edited) There's a big difference between what is possible if one can throw enough skill and man-hours at kit-building such a model and the way Bachmann have to approach theirs. It needs to come in at a price that won't scare everybody off, run reliably over their own points (which have dead frogs) and be produced under a normal r-t-r quality control regime. It is, perhaps, less remarkable that they are doing it the way they are, than that they are doing it at all. John Edited February 22, 2016 by Dunsignalling 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butler Henderson Posted February 22, 2016 Share Posted February 22, 2016 They are wires from the pickups in the trolley to the motor in the trailer, though now I look closely at the underside in the picture I notice there are 4 when surely only 2 are needed ??The model is quoted by Bachmann as not being DCC ready (not surprising really, where would you put a socket) so they can't be for that. Could be that they are making it easy to hard wire a decoder, with a decoder being located in the trailer and the four wires are the pick ups and motor wires connected together in the trailet for the user to adapt. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brian777999 Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 1. What did the workmen use before these came into use ? 2. I take it that the headlight on the model is only a dummy ? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cal.n Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 1. What did the workmen use before these came into use ? 2. I take it that the headlight on the model is only a dummy ? Yes, I think the headlight is a dummy. Although I don't think making it work would be impossible, especially if there is enough space for a small decoder underneath the main car. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Combe Martin Posted March 22, 2016 Author Share Posted March 22, 2016 (edited) Yes, I think the headlight is a dummy. Although I don't think making it work would be impossible, especially if there is enough space for a small decoder underneath the main car. This is a good point, putting a decoder under the floor of the main trolley I mean. Maybe Bachmann are helping us a bit here even though it's not DCC ready ?. As it stands, with pickup in both units and the motor in the trailer and no decoder socket anywhere, then only 2 wires are needed, but there are 4 !. The only spanner that maybe in the works, is that the chassis under the main trolley may be full of a heavy weight needed to keep it on the track. Edited March 22, 2016 by Combe Martin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold ruggedpeak Posted March 22, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 22, 2016 Saw this in the flesh at Ally Pally and it is tiny. If it runs OK then frankly it is a great achievement by Bachmann in my [unedumacated] view. It is so small it will be eye catching when it trundles around layouts. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cal.n Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 This is a good point, putting a decoder under the floor of the main trolley I mean. Maybe Bachmann are helping us a bit here even though it's not DCC ready ?. As it stands, with pickup in both units and the motor in the trailer and no decoder socket anywhere, then only 2 wires are needed, but there are 4 !. The only spanner that maybe in the works, is that the chassis under the main trolley may be full of a heavy weight needed to keep it on the track. Yes, way beyond me. Would it be possible to add weight under the curvature the roof. A point was also made that cast figures and tools would also help weight if one were to be removed to fit a decoder Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Combe Martin Posted March 23, 2016 Author Share Posted March 23, 2016 Yes, way beyond me. Would it be possible to add weight under the curvature the roof. A point was also made that cast figures and tools would also help weight if one were to be removed to fit a decoder Well earlier posts in this thread considered the idea of putting a tiny decoder in that roof space, but there will be the problem of then hiding the 4 wires against the 4 roof pillars. So maybe it's a better place for extra weight. Also, earlier in this thread, John Isherwood (CCTRANS) tried motorising the NBrass kit (nothing to do with N gauge). This is made of etched nickel silver (so it should be heavier than plastic), and he made it heavier still by using his own brass channel chassis and hiding lead under the roof. Despite all this he couldn't get it to pick up current properly because he got so much wheel spin it jumped around all over the place, ie he couldn't make it heavy enough to grip the track. He came to the conclusion that Bachmann were right to adopt their idea of motorising the trailer and having 8 wheels collecting current. I think they've got a very heavy weight in that trailer. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brian777999 Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 The whole thing should have been cast in white metal to give it some real weight. How many figures can fit on the trolley...four ? Who makes suitable white metal figures in a sitting position ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Parker Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 (edited) The whole thing should have been cast in white metal to give it some real weight. How many figures can fit on the trolley...four ? Who makes suitable white metal figures in a sitting position ? There used to be a whitemetal kit (Springside?) and the thin bars made it very flimsy. It wasn't very heavy either so would make virtuality no difference in weight, trouble is there just isn't much body. Also, I think you'll find commercial casting lie this is normally done in a pewter based alloy which is less poisonous but lighter. Bachmann will have suitable plastic figures in their range soon. Again, whitemetal people will add very little weight, perhaps a few grammes. Not enough to make an appreciable difference to running. Edited March 23, 2016 by Phil Parker Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul 27 Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 Want to date the livery periods, when were the all yellow first introduced early sixties, would the maroon version be seen same period, thanks. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cal.n Posted March 24, 2016 Share Posted March 24, 2016 Want to date the livery periods, when were the all yellow first introduced early sixties, would the maroon version be seen same period, thanks. On Hatton's Website, they say the BR Maroon one is BR Steam Late Crest (1957-66) UK Rail Era 5 Both Engineers Yellow versions are BR Corporate Blue (1967-71) UK Rail Era 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stewartingram Posted March 24, 2016 Share Posted March 24, 2016 Personally, I never recall seeing a Maroon one, just green. Stewart Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Combe Martin Posted March 24, 2016 Author Share Posted March 24, 2016 Personally, I never recall seeing a Maroon one, just green. Stewart I've seen at least one photo of a maroon one on the Somerset & Dorset up to early 1966. I'm sure I've quoted more details further back in this thread. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
billy_anorak59 Posted March 24, 2016 Share Posted March 24, 2016 (edited) Don't know if it's been mentioned, but there is some prototype inspiration in Dave F's excellent RMWeb thread (UK Prototype Discussions)... I've put them here - I tried to link, but it didn't work for some reason (probably me...) Edited March 24, 2016 by billy_anorak59 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul 27 Posted March 25, 2016 Share Posted March 25, 2016 The third picture above, when and where is it, looks late 60s Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merfyn Jones Posted March 25, 2016 Share Posted March 25, 2016 Want to date the livery periods, when were the all yellow first introduced early sixties, would the maroon version be seen same period, thanks. Liveries followed the road vehicle fleet probably. Crimson (not maroon) c1949-1963 Green c1963-1970 Yellow c1970 to end. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
railroadbill Posted March 25, 2016 Share Posted March 25, 2016 Just been looking at "Diesel and Electric on 35mm #3" dvd which has some cab views on it, one sequence being from a dmu near Bledlow on the Thame branch. There are some track workers at one point with a Wickham trolley in maroon, which is on its rails at right angles to the track. The commentary says it was filmed in 1962 or 63. A query, how were Wickham trolleys moved from their storage rails onto the track? There is a wooden block between the running rails with a hole in the centre, which appears to be made from 4 cut down sleepers. Is there something under the trolley to pivot it on over this wooden block? But how is the trolley moved over the nearest running rail (the rails it is kept on appear to be the same height as the main rails). ? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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