No Decorum Posted September 19, 2016 Share Posted September 19, 2016 Does the noice improve with more running? After having lubricated and run them in for the specified period, not that I’ve noticed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chameleon Posted September 20, 2016 Share Posted September 20, 2016 I read the review on the J94 in this month's ModelRail, it was sorta complimentary but they spend a fair bit of the review picking apart the detail pertaining to that specific loco. Not sure what to make of it really. It's a really nice loco and I suppose they have a point about getting the detail right, which is a complete nightmare for these locos You'd probably be lucky to find two the same! Anyway, they ended on a high note saying they were looking forward to receiving their model of Errol Lonsdale. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trainman119 Posted September 20, 2016 Share Posted September 20, 2016 Dave, Now that I have the exploded views of the J94s, do you also have the part number sheet for the exploded views. ??? Kind Regards, Roy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gismorail Posted September 20, 2016 Share Posted September 20, 2016 I also have read the Model Railway review and thought that on the whole it was a fair assessment of this new model. Has'nt put me off purchasing one as I doubt a WD one will be produced so I'm happy to add my own detail and at the end of the day what a cracking price Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold PaulRhB Posted September 21, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 21, 2016 Has'nt put me off purchasing one as I doubt a WD one will be produced :The Hattons edition? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edge Posted September 21, 2016 Share Posted September 21, 2016 I was jsut wondering, what is the virtue of the coreless motor as opposed to the motors previously used? Not trying to make any kind of point, just genuinely curious about the differences Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSpencer Posted September 21, 2016 Share Posted September 21, 2016 I was jsut wondering, what is the virtue of the coreless motor as opposed to the motors previously used? Not trying to make any kind of point, just genuinely curious about the differences It is largely subjective and debated elsewhere. In theory, lighter, no brushes to replace, which makes them quieter, and size for size should be faster and more responsive (you can switch direction faster) with greater life (though not necessarily more powerful). In practice, ideal for RC aircraft, debatable for railway model (unless the loco is short on space) given that you will not need to switch direction fast on a model loco (the weighty flywheel effect of a classic motor is actually more beneficial). On the other hand, with no mass of Iron, it should be less prone to overheating. No brushes to wear out which also makes them quieter and no need for capacitor suppression (classic motors interfere with old fashioned TV and radio singles due to the sparking at the contact plates - somewhat less of a problem in the digital age). The fact that coreless don't seem to like certain controllers is a downside. Primarily feedback and track cleaners. In fairness comments here that certain people found they do not like H&M Duette's (a pretty basic controller with transformer, diode rectifier and a variable resistant plate) I find surprising as I have not yet experienced problems with a coreless running under this (I avoid the half wave high resistance option of the said contoler as this will cause overheating, coreless or not). I have one model with a Portescap running on these since 2 decades, and 3 of DJMs Kernow's specials. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SDJR7F88 Posted September 21, 2016 Share Posted September 21, 2016 Following my review of the all new RMweb Exclusive - Limited Edition DJModels Hunslet Austerity 0-6-0ST, in dazzling NCB Yellow Livery, here's a quick running session featuring the Austerity doing what she was built for, shunting and moving coal wagons.As can be seen she is a superb performer, handling rake of 14 mixed Mineral Wagons, plus Toad Brake Van with ease. She also makes no hesitation whilst shunting, even over point-work. Hope you enjoy! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EDCXbIpKizc Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold MikeParkin65 Posted September 21, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 21, 2016 Following my review of the all new RMweb Exclusive - Limited Edition DJModels Hunslet Austerity 0-6-0ST, in dazzling NCB Yellow Livery, here's a quick running session featuring the Austerity doing what she was built for, shunting and moving coal wagons. As can be seen she is a superb performer, handling rake of 14 mixed Mineral Wagons, plus Toad Brake Van with ease. She also makes no hesitation whilst shunting, even over point-work. Hope you enjoy! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EDCXbIpKizc Got to say that whilst impressed by the smoothness of movement it does seem particularly noisy. By (maybe unfair) comparison I have been running in a Hornby Q6 tonight and it is virtually silent. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold PaulRhB Posted September 21, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 21, 2016 They improve a lot after running in, mine was fairly noisy too but much better after half an hour each way running in. Not silent but quiet enough not to interfere with DCC sound at low levels. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les1952 Posted September 21, 2016 Share Posted September 21, 2016 Got to say that whilst impressed by the smoothness of movement it does seem particularly noisy. By (maybe unfair) comparison I have been running in a Hornby Q6 tonight and it is virtually silent. The Hornby Q6 (and K1) are exceptionally quiet. Much of the noise in the video is, it seems, wheel noise, and the Toad van seems particularly noisy (louder than the motor noise from the loco). My sound-fitted 71515 is quiet enough from a motor point of view not to hide the fireman shovelling or other lesser random noises in its repertoire. It is also smoother and will edge along more slowly on DCC than the one in this video, which is nevertheless impressive. The sound file also allows flange noise which hopefully will mask some of the excess track noise. 71515 was given two hours running in light engine before going to be chipped. Les Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SDJR7F88 Posted September 22, 2016 Share Posted September 22, 2016 Got to say that whilst impressed by the smoothness of movement it does seem particularly noisy. By (maybe unfair) comparison I have been running in a Hornby Q6 tonight and it is virtually silent. She's still running in a bit to be fair, must say she is a lot quieter than her first run. And seems to be getting more and more so with every run, which is a very good sign Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SDJR7F88 Posted September 22, 2016 Share Posted September 22, 2016 Toad van seems particularly noisy (louder than the motor noise from the loco). Les Yes, I think he had the brakes hard on for the return run with the return run Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium jjb1970 Posted September 22, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 22, 2016 I think people need to keep a sense of perspective. The model isn't perfect but it is very good and the best J94 available in OO RTR. I have never seen a model that couldn't be criticised at some level but to me it is less important to micro-analyse fine points than to consider whether the model captures the look of the prototype and looks right. Of course I lie accuracy and realism but if a model captures the look of the prototype, runs well and offers good value then I'd rather take a "glass half full" type approach and be happy than to never be happy and always find fault with everything I buy. I think reviewers should do robust reviews, and my attitude is not a call for soft reviews, but I also think that although robust reviews are important it is also for the consumer to make their own decision whether they like a model. I think this is a nice model and I wouldn't let some of the issues highlighted put me off, but that's just my opinion. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Roy Langridge Posted September 22, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 22, 2016 I think people need to keep a sense of perspective. The model isn't perfect but it is very good and the best J94 available in OO RTR. I have never seen a model that couldn't be criticised at some level but to me it is less important to micro-analyse fine points than to consider whether the model captures the look of the prototype and looks right. Of course I lie accuracy and realism but if a model captures the look of the prototype, runs well and offers good value then I'd rather take a "glass half full" type approach and be happy than to never be happy and always find fault with everything I buy. I think reviewers should do robust reviews, and my attitude is not a call for soft reviews, but I also think that although robust reviews are important it is also for the consumer to make their own decision whether they like a model. I think this is a nice model and I wouldn't let some of the issues highlighted put me off, but that's just my opinion. Well said. I note that some comments made seem to be at odds with comments made on other topics. For example, some say they don't want sprung buffers as that puts the cost up and people can fit their own, but comments are made that a tiny handrail is missing with the J94. So what? Fit your own - its an easier job that changing buffers! To have all the options left right and centre to suit all the different combinations and oddities that the prototype had will put a cost on the model that takes it out of reach for many people (and possibly DJM to make). As for reviews, I have no problem with "robust" reviews, what I dislike is unsubstantiated opinion that seems to creep in to some - comments along the lines of "we are not sure whether..." If they are certain say so, if not then they have no evidence to actually support the viewpoint, it carries no value and can only damage the perception of the model being seen by some as "fact". I have the RM Web special and I love it - despite being a 1980s BR Blue era modeller. I have lubricated it and have run it in well and mine is near silent, nowhere near that I hear in some reviews or commented by some. How much have these models been run-in? Roy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertiedog Posted September 22, 2016 Share Posted September 22, 2016 A small correction to the coreless motor description, they most definitely have brushes and a commutator exactly like a conventional DC motor, it is just that there is no iron cored armature, the windings are made over a mould and then potted in a plastic. The magnets surround the core or are inside the cored armature structure. Most take the drive from the coil armature, with stationary magnets inside the core. Electrically they are the same as any conventional DC magnet motor, but are more efficient in two ways, the eddy currents in a iron armature are not there, and the mass is far lower without the iron. The lack of iron means faster build up of speed, with immediate responses to changes of applied power, and a considerable increase in back electro motive force after the power is removed and as they slow down . Not to be confused with Brushless Aero motors etc, that are a magnet surrounded by coils that are stationary, and the magnet spins, the difference is the power applied, the brushless use AC power, the magnets move on the rotating wave of the applied power, Mr Tesla's invention. Brushless motors for AC are not new, they are well over a hundred years old, but what has altered is the Neodymium Magnets, which allow far higher power inputs. Model aircraft use DC power packs that feed three phase, or more, convertors that then feed the coils. No brushes are required at all and wear and tear is limited, the penalty is the need for high frequency and high power AC current to be generated by the convertor. A bit of confusion does occur with Brushless DC motors like the drives in computers that work by having hall effect solid state switching to switch the power between each oil to force rotation. The down side of the Brushless DC motor is that they only like to run at one steady speed, although the electronics can control them. Usually used for video recorder drive and hard drives. Stephen Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertiedog Posted September 22, 2016 Share Posted September 22, 2016 On added detail, the RT models injectors, made nicely in lost wax cast brass, have arrived in the post, and now await fitting to the Austerity loco. At even first glance they are much better than the flat backed plastic mouldings on the loco. The plastic current mouldings on the footplate underside, and behind the steps, can be drilled out to take the scale pipes to secure the new injectors firmly into place with epoxy glue. Stephen Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caledonian Posted September 24, 2016 Share Posted September 24, 2016 How does the DJM version really compare with the Hornby version? Much superior obviously, but what I'm actually interested to know is how well it blends in - if I run one alongside my Hornby ones, will it happily fit in, or will stand out like a sore thumb? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Hilux5972 Posted September 24, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 24, 2016 How does the DJM version really compare with the Hornby version? Much superior obviously, but what I'm actually interested to know is how well it blends in - if I run one alongside my Hornby ones, will it happily fit in, or will stand out like a sore thumb? May stand out looking much better but that can't be a bad thing! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
black and decker boy Posted September 24, 2016 Share Posted September 24, 2016 How does the DJM version really compare with the Hornby version? Much superior obviously, but what I'm actually interested to know is how well it blends in - if I run one alongside my Hornby ones, will it happily fit in, or will stand out like a sore thumb? If you have a nicely detailed and weathered Hornby version they will sit side by side quite well though the DJM one will run much nicer and especially suit DCC sound easier. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butler Henderson Posted September 25, 2016 Share Posted September 25, 2016 Theres too obviously a big lump of plastic below the boiler on the Dapol/Hornby model that is not there on the DJM one. Compare LMR versions; Kernows photo of the DJM one http://www.kernowmodelrailcentre.com/p/42069/OOJ94-099-DJ-Models-Class-J94-0-6-0-Steam-Locomotive-number-196 verus Hattons photo of the Hornby version http://www.hattons.co.uk/210408/Hornby_R2151A_U_Class_J94_0_6_0ST_196_in_LMR_Blue_Pre_owned_Imperfect_box/StockDetail.aspx Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold adb968008 Posted September 25, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 25, 2016 How does the DJM version really compare with the Hornby version? Much superior obviously, but what I'm actually interested to know is how well it blends in - if I run one alongside my Hornby ones, will it happily fit in, or will stand out like a sore thumb? Initially when it was announced I was a little unsure, as I found the Hornby one to be ok, however when you have them in front of you its quite obvious. In my opinion Side by side they sit well, the old Dapol/Hornby punched well above its weight for the time it was made. It was for the most part a generic J94... One size fits all. (Though there was an extended bunker piece available)... All the various versions Hornby made don't take account of nuances of the prototypes.. Look at the differences in the two LMR examples for instance on details like steps, lining etc. However the DJ model highlights Hornby's short comings.. Things like the weight, buffer beam, better shaped wheels, finer detail on lamp irons, finer detailed cab.. The big obvious one is the variations in toolings to match the prototype..different placements of things like chimneys, steps, grab handles... When the DJ J94 runs however the finesse out classes the Hornby one (which is a bit of a part way between that cheap Caley pug and the X04 variant Jinty when it comes to performance).The Hornby one will out pull the DJ one, but it's not classy to watch ! I have 2 Hornby J94's (BR and a Whiston) and 3 DJ J94's (Mech Navvies, Robert and the Yellow one),, however I'm going to part with the BR one and trade up to a 4th DJ at some point, Whiston can stay as it fits with the other 3 DJ examples quite nicely as its own variation. On the value side, obviously the Hornby one has dropped on the 2nd hand scene, but consider the DJ ones are low runs (200 ?) they are going to hold value better, even if another 20 different liveries etc pop up later as the quantities produced is low to start with and not to be repeated... I'd buy up the industrial ones first, the std BR black variants are wider available and "black is black" if you just want a BR J94. When Robert and Mech navvies was released I did a side by side comparison with Hornby's Whiston, the post is here with pictures and videos... ( I have an old fashioned "train set".. more network, less scenery and mad gradients). http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/99273-dj-models-j94-update/?p=2389005 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chameleon Posted September 25, 2016 Share Posted September 25, 2016 Interesting to compare the same loco in the two pictures. Apart from the obvious lump under the boiler on the Hornby one, there appears to be a multitude of detail differences such as a footstep and handholds leading up to the filler cap. There shouldn't be much difference in details of the same loco. Whoch one is right? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les1952 Posted September 25, 2016 Share Posted September 25, 2016 Interesting to compare the same loco in the two pictures. Apart from the obvious lump under the boiler on the Hornby one, there appears to be a multitude of detail differences such as a footstep and handholds leading up to the filler cap. There shouldn't be much difference in details of the same loco. Whoch one is right? That depends on the loco and the date you want to model it. 71515 is right for the loco as now, but not quite right for its time at Swalwell, where amongst other things the lamp irons mostly weren't there. I'm very happy with mone. The gubbins below the footplate will get toned down first, then a gentle weathering to represent Swalwell's version of clean. I'll live with the lamp irons, and for a while I'll live with the fact I've got the sound file with the wrong whistle...... Les Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les1952 Posted September 25, 2016 Share Posted September 25, 2016 68023 has now had its crest replaced by a late one, and is in the queue for weathering. Taking a turn on the passenger train on "No Place". The loco hasn't any train brakes, but then again neither has the coach. Les Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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