Ask Dave

[DJM Dave]

Robert, in your final words you nailed it..."hopefully know more".......maybe, maybe not, who knows.

Indeed patience is a virtue of course, but a new era of communication and delivering on promises were made a few years ago which rightly attracted a lot of good faith and a willingness to accept some delays.

But if you've invested often large sums in crowdfund models (Class 92, King etc) you expect a certain level of communication.

We live in a world where you can get a message across the world in seconds, Dave has a business which is dependent on people coming back buying his models.

Go back through the section of the forum and count up how many models have been announced, and then a part from retailer ordered models how many have been delivered it doesn't take confidence building reading.

The Sandle tank and Class 17 are being advanced, the King who knows, the Class 92 in OO and N again who knows ? People have handed over money on those two what have they to show ?

A message saying they'll be news Friday, isn't good enough when you've handed over cash.

No doubt Dave will come back with a witty response, or some kind of out down slating us doubters but he needs to understand confidence is sliding in his ability to play with the big kids and make a sustainable business.

Hmmmmmmm, just in from a weekend attending that rather good and thoroughly recommended Spennymoor show, and I find this.

 

Ok, let’s get past the insinuation on the ‘it doesn’t take confidence building reading’ and perhaps clear up a few things......

The saddle tank? If that’s the j94, it’s been delivered, if it’s the Kernow 1361 it’s on the boat and as it’s a client it’s not up to me to comment upon.

The 17 is still being tested before it goes to second ep status, but does anyone really need that info, rather than what’s been published recently?

The king ‘who knows’, well if you mean the OO one, then everyone, and if you mean the N gauge one, then.......yup, everyone who’s interested in reading about it in its own section.

The 92’s are also updated recently about progress, although to be fair without checking I couldn’t say if I did both sections (N and OO) or one or the other.

The king hasn’t had any deposits taken yet, and those who have their name down will know that as no money has been asked for, and the 92 has had a small deposit paid to get the ball running to where it is at the moment.........and even that’s mentioned.

 

I also started a thread stating, that if I had anything new to add, I would do in that thread, putting links to whatever section I’ve updated at that time, also giving the date of the update to clarify things. A sort of ‘index’ if you like so instead of trolling through the whole DJM forum, you can see at a glance if I’ve updated anything.

 

If I don’t say anything, I have nothing to add. And i’m Certainly going to be sparse with new product info this close to Warley as other manufacturers will be.

 

However, if you take an interest in me so closely, you will note the business plan has been for the last couple of years, quite specific. You may not like it, but it’s there, stating what order items should come, and although not totally complete, there’s enough info to sate you next 12 months i’d have thought.

However, as you mentioned it, i’ll Reply to 3rd party products. I have been fortunate to have Kernow and Hattons plus others order from me specific brand new items. These items are paid for by said clients and move through the design / production / delivery process as quickly or slowly as my clients wish.

 

My own items, and yes there’s a list that I wish wasn’t so long, are taking time as laid out many times on this forum for specific, and generally understood and accepted reasons. Those being rises in Chinese prices, a change to the j94 doubling the tooling charges, pound to dollar conversion rate changes amongst a few. Nothing secret, nothing I expected to a degree.

 

That’s enough about me, tell me.....specifically, what loco have I let you down on, information wise, and I’ll do my best to correct it? And correct it tonight.

 

Cheers

Dave

[Two_sugars]

This thread is called ask Dave, so . . . . .

 

Did you enjoy your time in Spennymoor, this weekend?

 

Left me wondering how many of those hoppers will I need behind my N gauge Q6?

 

John

[Mike Storey]

Dave

 

Many (all, probably) of us have every admiration for what you have done and are attempting to do. Many of us have put our money where our mouth is, but you more than anyone. It is not that you don't communicate. It is that you don't communicate coherently or consistently. You are a very skilled engineer, designer and all sorts of other skills I do not understand, but you have also become an important businessman, important to many of us anyway.....and not just a salaried enthusiast who can just push out amusing anecdotes and occasional descriptions of the travails of manufacturing with the Chinese, which are very entertaining but rarely informative. That is why you are getting a bit of gip. Unfair and unwelcome no doubt. But you must deal with it.

 

I know Rapido are a larger operation than you, but they did not start out that way. They have gained cudos, and thus business, by very regular and consistent communication. This is despite the fact that most of their communication involves long, drawn-out apologies, put in their own, very amusing way, for a multitude of disastrous delays and a few cancellations. Your record, thus far, is actually much better than theirs, for getting stuff to market, but you would never know that. Ultimately, they gained business through innovative levels of detail and quality, much like you, but you will hear few people moan out loud about their appalling delivery record. They have learned how to manage their audience.

 

Perhaps where you should start is to update your Progress section on your website, and keep it updated at least once a month, and then refer enquiries to that, which is what you very clearly stated you intended to do when you created it. Only then would you need to refer to the reasons some things have not progressed as far or as quickly as some might have hoped (as you have done with the Class 74, which has put all of us who await that, back in our boxes for probably a year - you have controlled our expectations, and almost all of us have accepted that and left our money in the pot).

 

Just my thoughts, which you are perfectly welcome to bin!

 

Very best wishes

 

Mike

Edited October 29, 2017 by Mike Storey

[DJM Dave]

Hi Mike,

 

Thanks for the post and point taken.

 

I’m going to talk to my web master this week with regards to a few things that I need to learn to be able to do certain things that seem so simple I cannot fathom, on my web site.

 

It will, if I can master tha dark art, help us all I believe, as I have some interesting ideas for it, and one of them is a way to maybe have people sign up for a weekly/monthly newsletter via the site, which they will get info first (so maybe crowdfunders) direct to their inbox, and 24 hours later publish here and on the main page of the web site.

 

I’m open to ideas though if anyone has them, and they don’t mean I need to spend years trying the easier option of learning alchemy, only to come out with ‘purest green’ (nod to E.Blackadder).

 

Cheers

Dave

[DJM Dave]

This thread is called ask Dave, so . . . . .

 

Did you enjoy your time in Spennymoor, this weekend?

 

Left me wondering how many of those hoppers will I need behind my N gauge Q6?

 

John

Loved Spennymoor John,

 

Great show, great layouts, goodish weather, and nice family atmosphere.

 

No idea about hoppers though mate ;-)

Wait till Wednesday/Thursday for that

 

Cheers

Dave

[Mike Storey]

Hi Mike,

 

Thanks for the post and point taken.

 

I’m going to talk to my web master this week with regards to a few things that I need to learn to be able to do certain things that seem so simple I cannot fathom, on my web site.

 

It will, if I can master tha dark art, help us all I believe, as I have some interesting ideas for it, and one of them is a way to maybe have people sign up for a weekly/monthly newsletter via the site, which they will get info first (so maybe crowdfunders) direct to their inbox, and 24 hours later publish here and on the main page of the web site.

 

I’m open to ideas though if anyone has them, and they don’t mean I need to spend years trying the easier option of learning alchemy, only to come out with ‘purest green’ (nod to E.Blackadder).

 

Cheers

Dave

 

If you aim for a monthly newsletter, that would be more than adequate. Talk to your webwizard, for he/she will do the techo bit. The hard bit is getting around to writing it every month! Even if you have nothing much to say, it is important that you say so, and make your punters (even if they are not actually yours - remember Rapido also do many commissions but they still talk about the production issues with those in their own newsletters) feel like you give a ....damn. We all know you do, and do a lot, but unfortunately we like to hear you say so, every now and again. Then the you push the newsletter out to the wider world, to your prospective punters, who will ask your genuine punters what they think, through the disgraceful interweb sites such as this. We can be your best advert, or your worst nightmare. Ain't business fun!

 

Conversely, when I ran my own business for a number of years (although it was business-to-business and not selling to real people), I got the communications side just about perfect. Huge credibility and lots of warm feelings, so quite a few contracts with deposits paid. It was when the actual products turned up (from Hong Kong) and we tried to install them that things went a bit Pete Tong, Well, a lot actually. Still, I managed to sell the business for a Pound in the end. Result! But I have no doubts that you will do rather better than that....

[UMinion]

Hi Dave

 

I know we've discussed this before but if I might offer a suggestion (people are really not going to like this)

 

Your problem is RMweb. There's a very good reason that other manufacturers are so very rarely on it or just send stuff to Mr York to post. With rmweb or any forum for that matter you are not in control. The nature of a forum allows its members to pull and divert your attention to what they are interested in. Basically you've been spread too thin by the members here so as each of us are particularly interested in different things we just see promises on our topic that go unforfilled while you are no doubt responding to someone else demanding your attention.

 

You need to manage rather than be reactionary and to do that you need a platform you can control. I know people are going to hate me with a passion for saying this but the best thing you can do for DJmodels is to withdraw from this forum and conduct everything through your own site.

[9402 Fredrick]

Hi Dave, can you fill us in on what the announcement is?

[Corbs]

I disagree. Manufacturers communicating with their audience is very important. Look on the Hattons Barclay thread and you see forum members' input helping the manufacturer to (try and) avoid mistakes. What a positive message.

[Paul.Uni]

Hi Dave, can you fill us in on what the announcement is?

According to posts in the Spennymoor show thread, it's the official* announcement of HUO 24.5t hoppers via crowdfunding. No mention of scale yet.

 

*it was first mentioned in the Q6 cancellation announcement http://djmodels.co.uk/?p=470

[Steamport Southport]

Isn't the Hudswell Clarke a Saddle Tank?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Jason

[kandc_au]

 

If I don’t say anything, I have nothing to add.

I would have thought that this line answered everything..........There again, maybe it is just me!

 

Khris

[Hilux5972]

I would have thought that this line answered everything..........There again, maybe it is just me!

 

Khris

People don’t seem to understand that simple phrase though. It’s not hard to grasp but many seem to think it must be.

[John M Upton]

A lot of the trouble is we now live in a (in my opinion too) connected society where people expect updates to their latest overpriced and over complicated mobile device every thirty seconds and then get all hissy if all they get is silence for more than a couple of minutes.

 

Then you get the 'Announcement Junkies' who slaver whenever an announcement of an announcement is made, immediately copy and paste their usual never going to happen wish list before going into a stroppy meltdown when nothing on their list is announced.

 

Now we also get those who when they do see something on 'social media' either immediately get offended because basically they need to quite simply grow up and grow a pair or alternatively because it doesn't fit in with their own personal little world view, they now immediately decry it as "Fake News".

 

Against that background I pity any manufacturer, large or small who gets to keep their head above that particular onslaught of high water.

[mikeharvey22]

Hi Mike,

 

Thanks for the post and point taken.

 

I’m going to talk to my web master this week with regards to a few things that I need to learn to be able to do certain things that seem so simple I cannot fathom, on my web site.

 

It will, if I can master tha dark art, help us all I believe, as I have some interesting ideas for it, and one of them is a way to maybe have people sign up for a weekly/monthly newsletter via the site, which they will get info first (so maybe crowdfunders) direct to their inbox, and 24 hours later publish here and on the main page of the web site.

 

I’m open to ideas though if anyone has them, and they don’t mean I need to spend years trying the easier option of learning alchemy, only to come out with ‘purest green’ (nod to E.Blackadder).

 

Cheers

Dave

 

Dave, If you decide to go down the route of a monthly newsletter can I suggest that you make it easy for yourself. Do not try to sit down and write the newsletter in one go. Instead each time something happens which you would want to put in the newsletter write the item there and then. By the time the deadline for the newsletter is due for publication it will be already finished. All you have to do is some tidying and updates/deletions. This way you do not forget items which may have drifted from your mind due to other pressures.  I did this for nearly 30 years and never had to stress about meeting the publication deadline. Never missed a publication deadline either.

 

Mike

[woodenhead]

I really feel for Dave with this thread on the one hand he set it up to create a means of communicating with the masses but it's ended up as a back alley to snipe by phrasing such in question form.

 

The advice being offered by those who have been there done that looks invaluable and I hope that Dave will take it on the chin and perhaps a new status quo somewhat more divorced from RMWeb so he can focus on his developing product base without constantly feeling the need to respond to all sorts of queries, wishlists and snipes as and when they appear.

 

The Bachmann model is to communicate via Andy when the time is right, Hornby use the Engine Shed and Rapido use quirky videos.  I was interested in the feedback that perhaps Rapido are masters at hiding what's gone wrong in plain sight and people seem less likely to bat an eyelid - something to learn from.

 

Kernow do theirs via website and newsletters and tell us stuff when they have something to add, Hattons and Rails have begun a little more in the Dave style and at the moment they are probably in a honeymoon period till something turns up and they get the wrath of modellers.

 

The old adage less is more probably stands true here, Dave needs to back off, use the advice given and structure his communications in a more controlled manner.

 

I've a few models from Dave through Kernow but they are his mechanics and I like them, I'd have a 71 too but I have to temper my spending.

[Steamport Southport]

To be honest I think it's better to carry on as he is.

 

If he took too far a step back and stopped posting it could end up badly. Look at the Coopercraft thread for an example of a supplier who went quiet and then buried his head in the sand when problems started mounting up. I'm not saying this is the case here, but it's worth thinking about.

 

Communication is important.

 

 

Jason

[UMinion]

Hi Jason

 

I wasn't advocating that Dave stops communicating, just that he communicates via a method that he has more control over. Coopercraft is just one example, there's hundreds of small suppliers who don't have the problem you describe. I think your comparison of DJM to a small supplier is indicative of how many think of them. They are not a small supplier they are a major manufacturer. We should really be looking to realtrack, rapido and Dapol as models if anything with ultimately Hornby, Bachmann and Heljan.

 

It's interesting that people seem to draw comparison with DJM and smaller suppliers or commissioning stores like hattons. I think that's the fundamental problem

[Steamport Southport]

Hi Jason

 

I wasn't advocating that Dave stops communicating, just that he communicates via a method that he has more control over. Coopercraft is just one example, there's hundreds of small suppliers who don't have the problem you describe. I think your comparison of DJM to a small supplier is indicative of how many think of them. They are not a small supplier they are a major manufacturer. We should really be looking to realtrack, rapido and Dapol as models if anything with ultimately Hornby, Bachmann and Heljan.

 

It's interesting that people seem to draw comparison with DJM and smaller suppliers or commissioning stores like hattons. I think that's the fundamental problem

 

I can think of at least twenty small suppliers that have major problems with communication. I won't list them as it's unfair to single them out. Just look at the first page of the Small Suppliers section. Virtually every thread on there is full of "I've been trying to get in touch for the last XYZ months. Are they still in business?".

 

And yes I would describe DJM as a small supplier. If he was a major manufacturer then he wouldn't need commissions, pre-orders or crowdfunding to start production or release models, he would just write a cheque.

 

 

Again, no offense intended.

 

 

 

Jason

[adb968008]

If Dave ever needs an Agony aunt he knows where to find 20 of them right here.

Who’s Dave anyway ? I thought that was a TV channel. :-)

 

It seems everyone knows this bloke Dave personally, i’ll best make him a cuppa and wait for him to come round my place as it’ll eventually be my turn for a natter with him. Reading the threads it’s all so pally informal one could be forgiven in thinking he can’t get models made for having a handshake walkabout royal family style. If he took all the advice on here I doubt any models would ever be made, poor bloke would end up walking like a chicken and end up being committed.

 

( off topic but I do wonder how did that blokes UK holiday go that was designed a by a committee of members on here over 6mth and 20 pages ???)

 

Until then can we get back to DJModels and give it’s owner (I know he’s called Dave) the respect he’s due for running his business his own way, successfully.

 

Anyway, as it’s ask Dave, what’s this rumour i’m hearing about some wagon or other ?

Edited October 30, 2017 by adb968008

[DJM Dave]

If Dave ever needs an Agony aunt he knows where to find 20 of them right here.

Who’s Dave anyway ? I thought that was a TV channel. :-)

It seems everyone knows this bloke Dave personally, i’ll best make him a cuppa and wait for him to come round my place as it’ll eventually be my turn for a natter with him. Reading the threads it’s all so pally informal one could be forgiven in thinking he can’t get models made for having a handshake walkabout royal family style. If he took all the advice on here I doubt any models would ever be made, poor bloke would end up walking like a chicken and end up being committed.

( off topic but I do wonder how did that blokes UK holiday go that was designed a by a committee of members on here over 6mth and 20 pages ???)

Until then can we get back to DJModels and give it’s owner (I know he’s called Dave) the respect he’s due for running his business his own way, successfully.

Anyway, as it’s ask Dave, what’s this rumour i’m hearing about some wagon or other ?

Well that’s it then, I’m off round yours for a brew. No sugar thanks ;-)

 

Oh and wait till Wednesday for the web announcement :-)

[Edge]

Oh and wait till Wednesday for the web announcement :-)

 

But I wanna know now!! WAAAHAAHAHAH!!

[adb968008]

Well that’s it then, I’m off round yours for a brew. No sugar thanks ;-)

Oh and wait till Wednesday for the web announcement :-)

Without sugar is fine.

If you said without milk i’d be concerned :-)

[UMinion]

Just look at the first page of the Small Suppliers section. Virtually every thread on there is full of "I've been trying to get in touch for the last XYZ months. Are they still in business?".

 

Jason

Hi Jason.

 

I had a look at the first page as you said. I could see 2 threads like you describe. Not really "virtually every thread" though.

[Corbs]

Hi Jason

 

I wasn't advocating that Dave stops communicating, just that he communicates via a method that he has more control over. Coopercraft is just one example, there's hundreds of small suppliers who don't have the problem you describe. I think your comparison of DJM to a small supplier is indicative of how many think of them. They are not a small supplier they are a major manufacturer. We should really be looking to realtrack, rapido and Dapol as models if anything with ultimately Hornby, Bachmann and Heljan.

 

It's interesting that people seem to draw comparison with DJM and smaller suppliers or commissioning stores like hattons. I think that's the fundamental problem

Hatton's is now a manufacturer in its own right.