Sheffield Exchange, Toy trains, music and fun!

[Clive Mortimore]

14 minutes ago, richard i said:

Hard to see the snow on the beach from the prison cell. At least it was only a short stay at her majesty pleasure each time. 

Said with big joke, tongue in cheek. Rmweb will not let me use icon to show that.  no wait found it. 

I think a prison cell would have been warmer than the bedsit I had in Worthing......the snow had melted outside but the ice was still on the windows inside.

[Enterprisingwestern]

On 09/08/2019 at 20:21, Clive Mortimore said:

 The grey is quite hopeless, he cannot be ridden has he has a bad back.

 

Mmmm, burgers.

 

Mike.

[Satan's Goldfish]

2 hours ago, Clive Mortimore said:

Hi

 

I did think of modelling the frame only, like on Liverpool Lime Street but viewing Lime Street I found the even the frame restricted my vision. Having a frame would also impinge on accessibility, having bashed a DMU against the buffers last night and derailing the front two coaches. Not having a roof hopefully puts the viewer (which for most the time is me) in the station not outside, I am still a trainspotter at heart.  

 

I think I've probably asked this before, but do you imagine 1 big roof over all the tracks, or 2 roofs side by side a bit like Kings Cross?

[St Enodoc]

45 minutes ago, Clive Mortimore said:

I think a prison cell would have been warmer than the bedsit I had in Worthing......the snow had melted outside but the ice was still on the windows inside.

We had a student house in Leeds like that.

[Gibbo675]

On 09/08/2019 at 19:21, Clive Mortimore said:

The grey is quite hopeless, he cannot be ridden has he has a bad back.

 

49 minutes ago, Enterprisingwestern said:

 

Mmmm, burgers.

 

Mike.

This is no way to speak about Clive, even if he is talking about himself.

 

Anyway he's more bald than grey from what I remember with the added bonus he can glue multi-coloured bits of plastic together that resemble coaches!!!

 

Gibbo.

[jazzer]

19 hours ago, John Tomlinson said:

It's a strange business this Lima flanges on code 75. Like Clive I have Peco code 75 rail throughout, and no problems at all.

 

However a number of folk over the years have asserted that Lima flanges are too deep. My own theory is that it depends who's code 75 you're using. As I understand, the code reflects the depth (height) of the rail, hence code 100 looks a fair bit chunkier. The measure doesn't recognise the distance from the top of the chair to the top of the rail, and if this is less than Peco on other manufacturers track it would explain why Lima wheels don't work so good on them.

 

Like Clive I'm quite a fan of the Lima motors, and the Hornby Ringfields too. They're easy to access, easy to service and pretty reliable if you keep them clean and nicely lubricated. Perhaps not quite as good for slow speeds as more modern types, but as I run a mainline roundy - roundy that doesn't matter so much.

 

John.

 

That’s interesting because I thought I was going a bit daft ( we’ll a bit more daft still ).

 

Last night I went out to the garage to give the Lima’s a try. When I pushed the unpowered coaches on the Peco code 75 rail I could definitely hear the flanges clicking as they ran over the chairs, but putting my finger on the top of the coaches I couldn’t feel any vibration so they must have just about been touching the chairs but not enough to lift the wheel off the rail. So far so good.

 

Next step was to try a power car on the track, but nothing happened. So I connected power direct to the motor, and very slowly and hesitantly, like Dr Frankensteins creation responding to electrodes, it kicked in to life for the first time in probably 20 years or more. So after cleaning the wheels and lightly oiling up I tried it on the track and after an erratic start it was soon whizzing backwards and forwards flat out but when it came to slow running it stoped at about a scale 10mph and would only start when it felt like it without finger prompting . I gave up that point, too frustrated to investigate further, but it did cross my mind that it could be something to do with flanges.

 

But here’s the question I would like to put out to the Lima Experts . I have two Lima DMU sets. The power car I used last night was already partially stripped down, but I noticed that one had small buffers and the other one which I didn’t test had the more prototypical Oleo Type big buffers. Does that mean the one with the bigger buffers  is a later model and has smaller flanges so therefore I would be better off messing around with that one ? At the moment it isn’t stripped down so I didn’t bother cleaning and oiling it last night.

 

The layout I am building is a BLT with a 12 ft scenic area so unless they can be made into really good slow runners, I.e down to an absolute crawl it’s not worth spending time other than for a cosmetic make over.

[newbryford]

1 hour ago, Enterprisingwestern said:

 

Mmmm, burgers.

 

Mike.

 

And/or glue...……...

[Clive Mortimore]

1 hour ago, Enterprisingwestern said:

 

Mmmm, burgers.

 

Mike.

 

1 minute ago, newbryford said:

 

And/or glue...……...

Look 'ere you two are you trying to get me into trouble, if she see's wot u have rote? Remember when it comes to Mrs M I am neither brave or stupid

[Clive Mortimore]

1 hour ago, Satan's Goldfish said:

 

I think I've probably asked this before, but do you imagine 1 big roof over all the tracks, or 2 roofs side by side a bit like Kings Cross?

Or one big one in the middle and two little ones either side. I did envisage it being two side by side at one point in time.  All other possible permutations have been considered, to be honest I don't know but one day I will work it out.

[Clive Mortimore]

17 minutes ago, jazzer said:

 

That’s interesting because I thought I was going a bit daft ( we’ll a bit more daft still ).

 

Last night I went out to the garage to give the Lima’s a try. When I pushed the unpowered coaches on the Peco code 75 rail I could definitely hear the flanges clicking as they ran over the chairs, but putting my finger on the top of the coaches I couldn’t feel any vibration so they must have just about been touching the chairs but not enough to lift the wheel off the rail. So far so good.

 

Next step was to try a power car on the track, but nothing happened. So I connected power direct to the motor, and very slowly and hesitantly, like Dr Frankensteins creation responding to electrodes, it kicked in to life for the first time in probably 20 years or more. So after cleaning the wheels and lightly oiling up I tried it on the track and after an erratic start it was soon whizzing backwards and forwards flat out but when it came to slow running it stoped at about a scale 10mph and would only start when it felt like it without finger prompting . I gave up that point, too frustrated to investigate further, but it did cross my mind that it could be something to do with flanges.

 

But here’s the question I would like to put out to the Lima Experts . I have two Lima DMU sets. The power car I used last night was already partially stripped down, but I noticed that one had small buffers and the other one which I didn’t test had the more prototypical Oleo Type big buffers. Does that mean the one with the bigger buffers  is a later model and has smaller flanges so therefore I would be better off messing around with that one ? At the moment it isn’t stripped down so I didn’t bother cleaning and oiling it last night.

 

The layout I am building is a BLT with a 12 ft scenic area so unless they can be made into really good slow runners, I.e down to an absolute crawl it’s not worth spending time other than for a cosmetic make over.

Hi Jazzer

 

What state are the traction tyres, If they are greasy then that can have a detrimental effect. Clean them by gently rubbing a clean and dry bit of kitchen towel or a cotton bud over them. It is also worth giving the non pick up wheels a clean because they could be laying muck on the track. If it hasn't been used for some time things like the brushes might need to bed in again, poor contact with the commutator can effect slow running, but running the motor is the only way for them to bed in.  Another thing to check is the gear train, make sure that hasn't got a build up of gunk as that can cause running problems, more of a problem in my experience with Hornby ringfields than Lima.

 

Do you have access to a continuous run? If so let it have a good whizz round and hopefully it will have re-bedded everything and run a tad better.

 

As for your question on flange size, I am not aware of any changes to the flanges.

[Satan's Goldfish]

23 minutes ago, Clive Mortimore said:

Or one big one in the middle and two little ones either side. I did envisage it being two side by side at one point in time.  All other possible permutations have been considered, to be honest I don't know but one day I will work it out.

 

Ok. And 'walls' (buildings with access on to platform?) along the sides of each outer platform?... 

 

Would it be worth making some basic pillars that could sit on platforms holding up the Imaginary roofs? Not fixed down of course so you can try them  on different platforms for the different roof types. 

[Clive Mortimore]

59 minutes ago, Satan's Goldfish said:

 

Ok. And 'walls' (buildings with access on to platform?) along the sides of each outer platform?... 

 

Would it be worth making some basic pillars that could sit on platforms holding up the Imaginary roofs? Not fixed down of course so you can try them  on different platforms for the different roof types. 

Hi Map

 

I am going to have the walls along the side with the fronts to things like the parcels office, the station master's hideout, the left luggage and lost property thingy, and for naughty visitors the British Transport Police Station. I am thinking of pillars down the middle platform. The spacing of the platforms is such that when I was going to have just the front and about 9 inches of roof it was to be two arches the middle platform is in the middle despite there being a center road between platforms 3 and 4. Platform 8 is wider for the parcels vans to park when being loaded and unloaded. Must get some Royal Mail vans to go with them. 

 

The old plan.

[31A]

Some termini have umbrella type awnings; you can still see the trains but the passengers keep dry:

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/38339202@N00/11149861553

 

[Stubby47]

What you need is a Holographic roof. Looks like it's there, but you can put your hand through it.

 

HTH.

[Clive Mortimore]

23 minutes ago, 31A said:

Some termini have umbrella type awnings; you can still see the trains but the passengers keep dry:

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/38339202@N00/11149861553

 

Hi Steve

 

That was another consideration but it lost out to the imaginary roof.

1. I can see the trains.
2. I can get to the  trains, uncoupling, re-railing and finger poke starting.
3. One less thing to model.

 

[Gibbo675]

23 minutes ago, Clive Mortimore said:

Hi Steve

 

That was another consideration but it lost out to the imaginary roof.

1. I can see the trains.
2. I can get to the  trains, uncoupling, re-railing and finger poke starting.
3. One less thing to model.

 

Hi Clive,

 

If you did the former Blackpool Central in modern image you would have loads less to model as per point 3 above. Its my guess that car parks are easy although you would have to go to the top of the tower with extra powerful binoculars to see the trains at Preston.

 

Gibbo.

[john new]

Hi Clive.

 

Why not assume that Exchange was bomb damaged so badly that whatever stye of overall roof it had was removed for safety but with ancillary buildings renovated or rebuilt as you see fit (Prototype - Middlesbrough). 

 

Perhaps some form of temporary structure over the concourse area, but still not redeveloped by your circa 1960 era setting as (for your back story) the BR Property Board. local Council and commercial developers are still arguing on how this bomb damaged area of the City should be rebuilt. See pages 9-10 here - https://www.sheffield.gov.uk/content/dam/sheffield/docs/libraries-and-archives/archives-and-local-studies/research/Short-History--PDF--428-KB-.pdf  Perhaps the attitudes to your Exchange in the Modernisation Plan Report were aiding the uncertainty.

 

This list of resources may help if this scenario assists in establishing why your otherwise imposing station is roofless - https://www.sheffield.gov.uk/content/dam/sheffield/docs/libraries-and-archives/archives-and-local-studies/research/Blitz study guide v1-3.pdf as might http://www.yorkshirefilmarchive.com/film/new-towns-old 

 

 

[Mallard60022]

1 hour ago, Stubby47 said:

What you need is a Holographic roof. Looks like it's there, but you can put your hand through it.

 

HTH.

Some bloke could sell you a 'special set' of station roof parts' that go all together and  the finest ever seen and then Clive could have it as the all together, the all together, as all together as they day that it was built and everyone except a child would see how wonderful it is.  Easy, if a little expensive when I bring the things over, and very, very special indeed.

Clear the landing strip by the way and ask the dogs to have their toys ready...……

Ar$£

(yes I have been drinking on top of meds...…..sorry) 

[Mallard60022]

4 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

We had a student house in Leeds like that.

You had a house...….in Leeds...….when you were a student? When I were a student I had to stop in a bus shelter with some old army blankets for curtains.

P 

[Gibbo675]

10 minutes ago, Mallard60022 said:

Some bloke could sell you a 'special set' of station roof parts' that go all together and  the finest ever seen and then Clive could have it as the all together, the all together, as all together as they day that it was built and everyone except a child would see how wonderful it is.  Easy, if a little expensive when I bring the things over, and very, very special indeed.

Clear the landing strip by the way and ask the dogs to have their toys ready...……

Ar$£

(yes I have been drinking on top of meds...…..sorry) 

Hi Mallard,

 

Clive may have been to the Empire Cinema just across the road from Exchange Station but it doesn't make him the Emperor (that was a nasty thought).

 

Gibbo,

[jazzer]

4 hours ago, Clive Mortimore said:

Hi Jazzer

 

What state are the traction tyres, If they are greasy then that can have a detrimental effect. Clean them by gently rubbing a clean and dry bit of kitchen towel or a cotton bud over them. It is also worth giving the non pick up wheels a clean because they could be laying muck on the track. If it hasn't been used for some time things like the brushes might need to bed in again, poor contact with the commutator can effect slow running, but running the motor is the only way for them to bed in.  Another thing to check is the gear train, make sure that hasn't got a build up of gunk as that can cause running problems, more of a problem in my experience with Hornby ringfields than Lima.

 

Do you have access to a continuous run? If so let it have a good whizz round and hopefully it will have re-bedded everything and run a tad better.

 

As for your question on flange size, I am not aware of any changes to the flanges.

 

Thank you  Clive. Problem solved and you can report to Mrs M that you are a technical genius. 

 

The jigsaw puzzle has fallen into place. I could have sworn that this model didn’t have traction tyres , in fact when I also dug out an old Lima Class 40/Type 4 diesel it  crossed my mind that it was a bit odd that they fitted traction tyres to that but not the DMU. What has happened is that the DMU has lost its traction tyres ( probably why I picked it up cheap as a non- Runner)  but the wheels were so filthy the absence of tyres wasn’t noticed. Having checked just now I can see that now that the wheels are clean the t/tyres are missing but last night I just cleaned the wheels and put it straight on the track without noticing.

 

Anyway I’ve just given it another track test and having had 24 hours for the fresh oil to seep in a bit more it’s not all that bad. Not acceptable standard yet but good enough to justify a bit more work on, and ...Er....get hold of some traction tyres !

 

Thanks to you and all the others that made some input.

[Clive Mortimore]

1 hour ago, jazzer said:

 

Thank you  Clive. Problem solved and you can report to Mrs M that you are a technical genius. 

 

The jigsaw puzzle has fallen into place. I could have sworn that this model didn’t have traction tyres , in fact when I also dug out an old Lima Class 40/Type 4 diesel it  crossed my mind that it was a bit odd that they fitted traction tyres to that but not the DMU. What has happened is that the DMU has lost its traction tyres ( probably why I picked it up cheap as a non- Runner)  but the wheels were so filthy the absence of tyres wasn’t noticed. Having checked just now I can see that now that the wheels are clean the t/tyres are missing but last night I just cleaned the wheels and put it straight on the track without noticing.

 

Anyway I’ve just given it another track test and having had 24 hours for the fresh oil to seep in a bit more it’s not all that bad. Not acceptable standard yet but good enough to justify a bit more work on, and ...Er....get hold of some traction tyres !

 

Thanks to you and all the others that made some input.

Hi Jazzer

 

Try Peter's Spares https://www.petersspares.com/Hornby-x9721-class-55-67-73-101-121-156-gwr-br-railcar-traction-tyres-pk10.ir

 

All these are ex Lima locos now produced under the Hornby Railroad range. The 117 isn't listed as Lima modified then mould to make the 121 but the wheels are the same size.

Edited August 11, 2019 by Clive Mortimore

[jazzer]

10 minutes ago, Clive Mortimore said:

Hi Jazzer

 

Try Peter's Spares https://www.petersspares.com/Hornby-x9721-class-55-67-73-101-121-156-gwr-br-railcar-traction-tyres-pk10.ir

 

All these are ex Lima locos now produced under the Hornby Railroad range. The 117 isn't listed as Lima modified then mould to make the 121 but the wheels are the same size.

 Thanks Clive. Peters spares is always my first port of call these days, and I need some other things from them anyway, but Ive already had a look on ebay and there are loads of suitable spares around including , not just tyres but complete coaches, chassis or whatever. Shouldn't have a problem . 

 

While we are on about DMU's I am I right in saying that as built and before yellow warning panel era, the 117s  didn't have corridor connections and they were only modified with corridors after the first couple of years ? I am sure I read that was the case somewhere.

 

Thanks for your help .

[Gibbo675]

Hi Folks,

 

Here is some DMU action for you all to look at:

 

Cravens 105 Power Twin, Lima  power bogie.

 

Gloucester 100 - Cravens 105 Hybrid, Hornby power bogie.

 

It does look a bit like Vic Berry's in the back ground though !

 

Gibbo.

[Clive Mortimore]

1 hour ago, jazzer said:

 Thanks Clive. Peters spares is always my first port of call these days, and I need some other things from them anyway, but Ive already had a look on ebay and there are loads of suitable spares around including , not just tyres but complete coaches, chassis or whatever. Shouldn't have a problem . 

 

While we are on about DMU's I am I right in saying that as built and before yellow warning panel era, the 117s  didn't have corridor connections and they were only modified with corridors after the first couple of years ? I am sure I read that was the case somewhere.

 

Thanks for your help .

Hi Jazzer

 

The first Class 117s to receive gangways were some Reading based sets so that they could be run with the Hawksworth CKs that were wired to run with DMUs. The Railcar Association web site states 1965.  Gradually all WR based Suburban units were fitted with gangways.