Sheffield Exchange, Toy trains, music and fun!

[St Enodoc]

Hi John

 

I appreciate not everyone can make kits, convert RTR or scratchbuild, I can only bodge things but the way some members of this forum have posted as if their whole future as railway modellers depended on having a D600. As you say there was the Silver Fox model, the Q kits lump and as t'other John mentioned the MTK beauty. Mine are class 29s suitably cut about. So there has been the opportunity for some to have one ages a go. After all they were a small class that for most of their short service life were confined to one county are a nicety not a necessity even if you modelled Cornwall between 1960 and 1967.

 

The reason I have one and one still under construction goes back to the days when I was modelling every diesel class that was in green with a small yella panel and any major variations in the class, the other one was/is to be a headcode box version. They managed to escape a down sizing exercise, mainly because I didn't think that anyone would want a D600....how wrong I was I could have been cutting and shutting class 29s for years.   

I've still got a couple of 29s and A1 Models conversion kits for 22s, but that project died when the Dapol ones came out.

[Regularity]

H

I appreciate not everyone can make kits, convert RTR or scratchbuild, I can only bodge things but the way some members of this forum have posted as if their whole future as railway modellers depended on having a D600.

 

The psychologist and statistician parts of my background know that this is unfortunately true for some, it is actually quite a small percentage of modellers - significant, but small. These have my sympathy and empathy - I am the same when it comes to kicking a pigs-blabber filled with air, and surrounded by leather, about a football field. Growing up in town where the local team spends 90% of its time in the fourth tier of professional football gave me little incentive to push myself...

 

For everyone, success will come with various degrees of ease, and in many cases I think there is an element of fear about making mistakes, plus a lack of understanding of the phrase “nothing works like hard work” - and also that until you try (hard), you never know what you can achieve.

 

Buy some cheap plastic body cast offs, some filler, a range of wet and dry papers, a few files, a square, a ruler and maybe a razor saw, solvent, brush for same and some styrene sheet and have go at cutting and shutting.

[Clive Mortimore]

The psychologist and statistician parts of my background know that this is unfortunately true for some, it is actually quite a small percentage of modellers - significant, but small. These have my sympathy and empathy - I am the same when it comes to kicking a pigs-blabber filled with air, and surrounded by leather, about a football field. Growing up in town where the local team spends 90% of its time in the fourth tier of professional football gave me little incentive to push myself...

 

For everyone, success will come with various degrees of ease, and in many cases I think there is an element of fear about making mistakes, plus a lack of understanding of the phrase “nothing works like hard work” - and also that until you try (hard), you never know what you can achieve.

 

Buy some cheap plastic body cast offs, some filler, a range of wet and dry papers, a few files, a square, a ruler and maybe a razor saw, solvent, brush for same and some styrene sheet and have go at cutting and shutting.

Hi Simon

 

There are people no matter how hard they try cannot model make and I understand this. There are loads of things I cannot do, and I will not bore people but singing and kicking a ball where I want it to go are two I would love to do. Over the years the D600 loco has been available in some form or another, so if it was an essential, must have, locomotive those wanting it would have acquired one. I have built locos for mates who find modelling difficult. I am not too sure how good Silver Fox's marketing was but I was aware of many of their early stuff so some people could have missed it being advertised so missed a chance of buying it. But I suspect many who need it now did not do so until it was advertised by Kernow.

 

Modellers are strange fellows, one of my club mates who is an able modeller gets very upset with the fact Sutton Locomotive Works have not produced a "standard production" Type 2 Bo-Bo in all green. The all green ones have all been from the pilot batch and ones with the additional grille and the production batch green ones have all had a yellow panel. I know Phil Sutton and have mentioned my mate's want, Phil's reply is "There is green paint". My mate is capable of splashing on some green paint but I think over the recent years has got use to the types in the liveries he wants have been produced and that is where I think a lot of modellers have ended up or are rapidly heading to. For those who find modelling difficult I have empathy. For those who want but can do.........

Edited May 11, 2018 by Clive Mortimore

[Clive Mortimore]

I have been driving trains this evening. One of my BRCW units was derailing. It had been rewheeled at some point, before I purchased it (I think) as it has metal wheels. Well metal tyres to the wheels. I tried to bung me back to back gauge between the wheels of the first axle. Very much under the acceptable width. I took all the wheel sets out the bogies and began bringing them up to standard. I must have given one wheel a little to much oomph  as it came off the axle, but so did the pin point end. These wheels are made with the pin point as part of the wheel not on the axle, so when I widened the B to B I lengthened the axle. What make are they and how weird?

 

It runs Ok now, and it hadn't played up in the past.

[Clive Mortimore]

Hi Guys

 

In have been doing some maths and train running. Scale speed reasons.

 

A scale mile in 4mm scale is 23.15 yds. The outer running line on Exchange is 20.62 yds (according to Anyrail). A train running at a scale 60 m.p.h. will cover 23.15 yds in a minute. Therefore to go around the running lines on Exchange at a scale 60 m.p.h will take 54 secs.

 

I have been running a couple of trains and it took quite a bit of adjusting to get them down to a scale 60 m.p.h. It didn't 'alf look slow. 

 

Now to write a "Check your speed" chart based on the number of seconds it takes to circumnavigate the train room per lap.

[St Enodoc]

Hi Guys

 

In have been doing some maths and train running. Scale speed reasons.

 

A scale mile in 4mm scale is 23.15 yds. The outer running line on Exchange is 20.62 yds (according to Anyrail). A train running at a scale 60 m.p.h. will cover 23.15 yds in a minute. Therefore to go around the running lines on Exchange at a scale 60 m.p.h will take 54 secs.

 

I have been running a couple of trains and it took quite a bit of adjusting to get them down to a scale 60 m.p.h. It didn't 'alf look slow. 

 

Now to write a "Check your speed" chart based on the number of seconds it takes to circumnavigate the train room per lap.

60 mph = 14 inches per second in 4 mm scale.

[Regularity]

It is surprising just how slow it does look. If you have access to the August 1980 Railway Modeller, that point is made in the Railway of the Month article.

 

When I was a child, one of my grandparents was moved into a block of flats, and from the window of bus lounge on the fourth floor I could see trains moving on some open line, about a mile away. I knew from timing trains against the mile posts that 50 mph was typical on this stretch of line, but from that distance away, I was always amazed at how slow they seemed to be moving.

 

The simple truth is that when we look at something we really measure angular displacement rather than true distance - witness the parallax effect - so things further away seem to be moving much more slowly and when it comes to actual action, our trains are not “three feet times the scale away” as they are for detail, but just 3 feet away.

[cheesysmith]

You just need to see how slow a unfitted mineral train is. 

[Clive Mortimore]

You just need to see how slow a unfitted mineral train is. 

Max speed of freight trains according to the 1968 Eastern Region, freight Trains Loads Book are

 

Class 4, 55 mph, or 59 seconds around the train room

Class 5, 50 mph, or 65 seconds around the train room

Class 6, 45 mph, or 72 seconds around the train room

Class 7* 40 mph, or 81 seconds around the train room

Class 7 35 mph, or 93 seconds around the train room

Class 8 25 mph, or 130 seconds around the train room

Class 8 15 mph, or 216 seconds around the train room when hauled by a 204hp or 350 hp shunter.

[Regularity]

Running trains at scale speeds gives you time to think about the next move, and is much less stressful.

[Dagworth]

Hi Guys

 

In have been doing some maths and train running. Scale speed reasons.

 

A scale mile in 4mm scale is 23.15 yds. The outer running line on Exchange is 20.62 yds (according to Anyrail). A train running at a scale 60 m.p.h. will cover 23.15 yds in a minute. Therefore to go around the running lines on Exchange at a scale 60 m.p.h will take 54 secs.

 

I have been running a couple of trains and it took quite a bit of adjusting to get them down to a scale 60 m.p.h. It didn't 'alf look slow. 

 

Now to write a "Check your speed" chart based on the number of seconds it takes to circumnavigate the train room per lap.

It was the first thing we found with the camera train, until you were looking out of the front window of the train you were driving you didn't realise just how fast you were going.

 

Andi 

[Clive Mortimore]

Now for the passenger trains

 

The biggest and fastest diesel locos I am using will be class 47s on rare occasions. They were limited to 95mph.

 

Class 47 maximum speed 95 mph or 34 seconds around the train room.

Class 45/46 maximum speed 90 mph or 36 seconds around the train room.

Class 40 maximum speed 90 mph or 36 seconds around the train room.

Class 37 maximum speed 90 mph or 36 seconds around the train room.

Class 31 maximum speed 90 mph or 36 seconds around the train room.

Class 31 (D5500-5534) maximum speed 80 mph or 41 seconds around the train room.

Class 25 maximum speed 90 mph or 36 seconds around the train room.

Class 24 maximum speed 75 mph or 43 seconds around the train room.

Class 20 maximum speed 75 mph or 43 seconds around the train room.

 

DMUs maximum speed 70 mph or 46 seconds around the train room.

 

Steam loco hauled trains would not very often have a greater average speed than 60 mph so a maximum of 75mph on classes like Black Fives and B1s will what I will try and maintain. Most passenger trains would not go faster than 60 mph or 54 seconds around the train room.

 

These are maximum speeds not target speeds.

Edited May 13, 2018 by Clive Mortimore

[St Enodoc]

Now for the passenger trains

 

The biggest and fastest diesel locos I am using will be class 47s on rare occasions. They were limited to 95mph.

 

Class 47 maximum speed 95 mph or 34 seconds around the train room.

Class 45/46 maximum speed 90 mph or 36 seconds around the train room.

Class 40 maximum speed 90 mph or 36 seconds around the train room.

Class 37 maximum speed 90 mph or 36 seconds around the train room.

Class 31 maximum speed 90 mph or 36 seconds around the train room.

Class 31 (D5500-5534) maximum speed 80 mph or 41 seconds around the train room.

Class 25 maximum speed 90 mph or 36 seconds around the train room.

Class 24 maximum speed 75 mph or 43 seconds around the train room.

Class 20 maximum speed 75 mph or 43 seconds around the train room.

 

DMUs maximum speed 70 mph or 46 seconds around the train room.

 

Steam loco hauled trains would not very often have a greater average speed than 60 mph so a maximum of 75mph on classes like Black Fives and B1s will what I will try and maintain. Most passenger trains would not go faster than 60 mph or 54 seconds around the train room.

 

These are maximum speeds not target speeds.

What might the line speed have been in the Sheffield Exchange area? Possibly 60 on the main lines, 70 at a pinch, with the station approaches round the triangle perhaps 30 dropping to 15 or 20 through the throat itself?

 

Any better guesses?

[manna]

G'Day Folks

 

I would take all those Max speeds with a pinch of salt, if the Drivers was in going home mode ??? LOL.

 

Only unfitted was treated with respect, but I bet the guard would not agree 

 

manna

[Clive Mortimore]

What might the line speed have been in the Sheffield Exchange area? Possibly 60 on the main lines, 70 at a pinch, with the station approaches round the triangle perhaps 30 dropping to 15 or 20 through the throat itself?

 

Any better guesses?

Hi John

 

I want to get into the habit of running the passenger trains around the layout at approximately scale 60 mph so when they do enter the station I will slow them down to a scale speed. What doesn't seem to fast on the main line is very fast now I have seen what scale 60 looks like so hopefully I will be driving the trains in the station area at 15 to 20 mph. At the moment I think they are doing 60 plus because it looks a lot slower than the trains bombing about on the main line.

[Stubby47]

What speed will they be doing as they break through the stops at the end of the platforms?

[Clive Mortimore]

What speed will they be doing as they break through the stops at the end of the platforms?

Not that fast as the stops are still not glued down.    Luckily Mrs M still thinks the dogs have hidden the cushions.

[Andrew P]

Hi John

 

I want to get into the habit of running the passenger trains around the layout at approximately scale 60 mph so when they do enter the station I will slow them down to a scale speed. What doesn't seem to fast on the main line is very fast now I have seen what scale 60 looks like so hopefully I will be driving the trains in the station area at 15 to 20 mph. At the moment I think they are doing 60 plus because it looks a lot slower than the trains bombing about on the main line.

What you need Clive is a simple Speed Dyno Meter, Velocity reducing distance analectic calculator, or Digital platform Buffer distance stopping estimator and speed combined calculator with built in Brake actuator guidance system.    

 

OR a WALL.  

 

SIMPLES.  

 

Just saying.  

[St Enodoc]

Hi John

 

I want to get into the habit of running the passenger trains around the layout at approximately scale 60 mph so when they do enter the station I will slow them down to a scale speed. What doesn't seem to fast on the main line is very fast now I have seen what scale 60 looks like so hopefully I will be driving the trains in the station area at 15 to 20 mph. At the moment I think they are doing 60 plus because it looks a lot slower than the trains bombing about on the main line.

Sounds good to me.

[newbryford]

 Velocity reducing distance analectic calculator, or Digital platform Buffer distance stopping estimator and speed combined calculator with built in Brake actuator guidance system.  

 

 

 

Is that a posh way of saying "Oh sh1t, it's going too fast...."?

 

Cheers,

Mick

Edited May 14, 2018 by newbryford

[Bogie]

The simple truth is that when we look at something we really measure angular displacement rather than true distance - witness the parallax effect.

 

That sounds very knowledgeable, so I will be quoting you from now on!

[Regularity]

It's first year undergraduate psychology. Nothing new, except maybe in applying it to model railways, and even then I doubt it.

[jazzer]

Hi Guys

 

In have been doing some maths and train running. Scale speed reasons.

 

A scale mile in 4mm scale is 23.15 yds. The outer running line on Exchange is 20.62 yds (according to Anyrail). A train running at a scale 60 m.p.h. will cover 23.15 yds in a minute. Therefore to go around the running lines on Exchange at a scale 60 m.p.h will take 54 secs.

 

I have been running a couple of trains and it took quite a bit of adjusting to get them down to a scale 60 m.p.h. It didn't 'alf look slow. 

 

Now to write a "Check your speed" chart based on the number of seconds it takes to circumnavigate the train room per lap.

A man after my own heart. It's always frustrates me at exhibitions when I see a layout built far in excess of any modelling standards I could expect to achieve and the whole thing is ruined ( to my mind anyway) by untypical speeds, particularly pulling away from stations. So many operators seem to be impatient to get the train up to some wholly unrealistic speed before it disappears into the fiddle yard. Equally unpalatable ( well to me anyway ) are trains that hammer into a station and screech to an unrealistic stop.Dont lets even mention shunting in the yard at a scale 20mph.

 

I think adjusting yours to a scale 60mph looked slow because you are used to seeing them run too fast, but well done for working it all out and raising the point.

[Peter Kazmierczak]

Will speeds be more accurate in P4 rather than OO?

[Clive Mortimore]

Will speeds be more accurate in P4 rather than OO?

Yes Peter they will be even if most the public cannot see the difference.