OO Gauge class 71 Electric Locomotive

[olivegreen]

Many thanks for the very informative replies to my question.

 

Point noted also about the jumper (possibly) being for train heating, but a photo in the Bradford Barton book 'Southern Electrics' shows E5005 (therefore presumably before conversion to a class 74) attached to a 4TC set at Sittingbourne: I realise, of course, that TCs are not of the same stable as the original Kent Coast stock, nor are they powered, but I wondered if the 71 was in 'haulage only' mode or whether it was in multiple with the TC so didn't have to run round.

[Gwiwer]

A class 71 could haul a 4TC just as it could haul any other EMU.  The unit would be treated as hauled stock; while it could be propelled a short distance in permitted locations (for example into a siding) it could not be used to control the locomotive in the push-pull sense.  The loco had to haul the unit which ever way the train was running irrespective of the fact that the unit could remotely control suitably fitted locomotives.  Those were of classes 33/1, 73/0, 73/1 (and the later 73/2) and 74.  For what it's worth a 33/0 or a 33/2 could not be remotely controlled from a leading EMU / TC cab either as they were not fitted with the requisite SR 27-way MU control jumpers.

[Dogmatix]

All the more reason for a Class 74 asap, please!

 

To be honest, I'm not entirely sure why two manufacturers independently chose to do a 71 rather than the more useful 74. I mean, what can a 71 do that a 74 can't? Where can a 71 work where a 74 can't? I'd've thought that there was a bigger market for a 74.

Edited July 26, 2015 by Dogmatix

[Gwiwer]

what can a 71 do that a 74 can't? Where can a 71 work where a 74 can't? I'd've thought that there was a bigger market for a 74.

 

A 71 could work from the overhead line in the various yards and sidings so fitted and was one of very few SR types to employ a pantograph on the region. 

 

Strictly speaking a 71 could work on the South Eastern Division while a 74 could work on the South Western Division.  Both types are quite geographically restricted therefore.  More than twice the number of 71s were built than were converted to 74s so an argument exists to suggest they might be more popular through sheer numbers.  

 

71s hauled prestige trains such as the Golden Arrow and Night Ferry.  74s were in charge of the various Southampton and Weymouth boat trains but nothing with a well-known name.  The Bournemouth Belle had gone by the time they arrived.

 

We have already had strong hints that a 74 will follow the 71 so (as I have room for a 74 or two myself) let's hope the 71s sell well and the 74 follows as suggested.

[Titan]

All the more reason for a Class 74 asap, please!

 

To be honest, I'm not entirely sure why two manufacturers independently chose to do a 71 rather than the more useful 74. I mean, what can a 71 do that a 74 can't? Where can a 71 work where a 74 can't? I'd've thought that there was a bigger market for a 74.

 

Probably got more to do with what they actually did and the trains they actually hauled, rather than what they theoretically could. I don't think the 74 ever hauled the Golden Arrow, for example, and as they were later conversions they were not around in the beginning. If you only want to model the sort of trains that the 74's hauled that's fine, but if you want to model something more prestigious, or of an earlier period, then a 74 won't do.

 

edit: beaten to it!

Edited July 26, 2015 by Titan

[Southernman46]

I'd've thought that there was a bigger market for a 74.

I think just about every BR blue era modeller is going to have at least one of each type if they do (I certainly am)

 

So maybe it's a case of produce the more niche 71 first (and because it's easier - there being one still in existence ) gauge the market before doing the engineering required to modify the CAD's . molds, etc.. for the 74 ?

 

I think the volume of talk on here will likely have ensured manufacturers' interest.........

[Wolf27]

I think Dave has already stated that the 74 would follow the 71 should the sales of that meet expectations.

 

Cheers

 

Shane

[Dogmatix]

Well, what I meant was, 71's could only work on third-rail lines and in those few freight yards on the SR with overhead wires (Hither Green etc.). As far as I know, they could not work on main line overhead power. 74's, on the other hand, could work anywhere. Therefore there is surely more scope for more modellers to find an "excuse" to use a 74 (or two), especially on third-rail-less, overhead-less layouts. 

[Bert Cheese]

Well, what I meant was, 71's could only work on third-rail lines and in those few freight yards on the SR with overhead wires (Hither Green etc.). As far as I know, they could not work on main line overhead power. 74's, on the other hand, could work anywhere. Therefore there is surely more scope for more modellers to find an "excuse" to use a 74 (or two), especially on third-rail-less, overhead-less layouts. 

 

Agreed, the HA's pantograph was only there for use in those yards on the SE section fitted with 650V DC lightweight catenary, not a widespread system so seldom used in reality.

 

The HB's were in some ways just as restricted geographically by their small numbers (only 10) and poor reliability when running on diesel power, driver knowledge of the big ED's was quite restricted too which doesn't help matters.

 

On the bright side 74010 was briefly acquired by the RTC at Derby in full working order (a true loss to later preservation if ever there was..) so some leeway for unusual locations may exist?

[phil gollin]

.

 

As stated before, it's not so much "what" a 71 could do as "when" they could do it.

 

The Class 71 goes with the end of the green era which is popular.

[Dogmatix]

As stated before, it's not so much "what" a 71 could do as "when" they could do it.

 

The Class 71 goes with the end of the green era which is popular.

 

Ah, yes, now that is a good point - 74's only ever ran in blue with full yellow ends, which rather limits the possible versions to two (one clean, one weathered)!

[woodenhead]

Being blue only I expect then that that is a model that will lend itself to the crowd funding type of manufacturer or a shop that specialises in niche products of the south of the country.

 

All the more reason for people to support those niche manufacturers/shops & partnerships.........

[Southernman46]

Converted at Crewe ??

 

so there must have been 71's towed north and 74's on test / delivery to SR....................more off route scope

[amwells]

Yes it is. It's the only way to get ALL the detail that is necessary, and both I and the Chinese engineers designed a metal one but it didn't give ( no matter what we tried) the fidelity I wanted in the panto area, both well and the panto itself.

 

Cheers

Dave

Dave, I appreciate you may not have got this far, but... Will the pantograph 'look' metal? I have just had awful images in my head of those plastic pantograph a Hornby used on the train set class 90 and 91s!

[Re6/6]

I don't think it will fit into panto well when down though as the well looks too short in length.

 

 

Yes, I do have one for a cl 70 (CC1) that I'm building and it is commendably fine.

 

You're right about the pan well. On the 'Genesis' (?) kit it does look too short. I have one of those that I may (or may not!) ever make up!

Edited July 28, 2015 by Re6/6

[Oldddudders]

Converted at Crewe ??

 

so there must have been 71's towed north and 74's on test / delivery to SR....................more off route scope

My recollection of an anecdote at the time is that the first 74 was indeed towed from Crewe to Eastleigh, where a key was put on it. There was a loud bang and it was towed back to Crewe......

[DJM Dave]

I have to admit this is something thats kind of making me hold off too.

I have visions of the corgi blackpool tram pantograph.. which makes me shudder.

It's a good and valid question.

After all it will be a plastic pantograph.

However there are ways of making plastic look metallic, although to be fair if your referirig to the panto head, there are more issues than worrying about its finish, although I think I have that cracked too.

 

Cheers

Dave

[woodenhead]

We dont want cracked pantographs Dave.

[Ian Hargrave]

This thread is developing into a great pantomime......See you at The Hippodrome.

[stewartingram]

We dont want cracked pantographs Dave.

ooh I don't know - we could ask for a discount on damaged items....

 

Stewart

[DJM Dave]

This thread is developing into a great pantomime......See you at The Hippodrome.

Oh no you wont! 

[Gwiwer]

And after all how many of us (some, doubtless) remember to black the contact strip on the pan which in reality is carbon? 

 

Anyone seen DJM Dave?  

 

He's behind you!!!!!

[DJM Dave]

And after all how many of us (some, doubtless) remember to black the contact strip on the pan which in reality is carbon? 

 

Anyone seen DJM Dave?  

 

He's behind you!!!!!

 

I remembered it mate...........................i remember it on the cad/cam too ;-)

[New Haven Neil]

I remembered it mate...........................i remember it on the cad/cam too ;-)

 

Oh Yes He Did.......

[10800]

According to the Noodle book on the Booster locos (CC1/CC2/20003) the newly introduced HAs were used occasionally on the Newhaven boats and some other Central Section services around 1959/60.  I've never seen any photos of this, is anyone aware of any?  (I just have photos of the rail joint tests near Balcombe in 1960 involving a 71, 33 and Booster).