Matabiau Posted November 22, 2014 Share Posted November 22, 2014 Bachmann Europe plc have announced the latest OO Collectors Club models at Warley Show. Sealink livery Mk1 SO and BSK set. 39-001K PS2.jpg West Country PO wagon set 37-078K PS2.jpg Admiralty 14T tank wagon. 37-675K PS.jpg Further details to follow. Is there any indication that these models will be available in both OO and N gauges? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dunsignalling Posted November 22, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 22, 2014 Far from it. This type of railmotor was buit in 1907-8 and many lasted until 1935. That's 28 years and four or five livery variations. Compare that with the RTR GWR tanks suitable for branchline use available until now. Prior to the Hattons 48XX announcement, all we had were the terribly out of date Hornby 2721, the Airfix/Hornby 14XX and the Bachmann 57XX/8750. The first is far from modern standards and the latter two were produced in a form not seen before the 1940s and, in many cases, not until the 1950s. Add to which the 57XX/8750 wasn't given a yellow route classification until 1950 so, previously, had been unsuited to many branch lines. I think you'll find those prototypes had both a shorter life (in manufactured form) and fewer livery variations. Nick The point I was making was not that there weren't plenty of liveries to choose from but that (probably uniquely) the railmotors disappeared (in their self-propelled form) in the mid-1930s and skipped forward by more than twice their original service lives before re-emerging in preservation. It is to be hoped that models covering their intervening career as auto-trailers will also be produced eventually. John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Posted November 22, 2014 Share Posted November 22, 2014 So if Kernow sell only through their website its OK and if Hornby start doing similar its a no no .Seems odd logic No comparison. Kernow are a long established retailer, commissioning (and taking the full risk) on new models and so, quite rightly, retain exclusive retail rights. I do not see how anything they, or Hattons or Rails, are doing being in any way comparable to Hornby's actions. Hornby, established even longer, are a manufacturing company (in essence) who have for decades sold their wares through the retail trade, a mutually beneficial situation. Without that retail sector, and pre internet, there'd be no Hornby. Now, if Hornby decide to supply direct only, that's not showing much loyalty to their established retail customers but that's business, things move on, and I could understand it. Selling direct whilst undercutting retail customers whom they still expect to sell their wares is, well, at the least, a strategy designed to alienate the retail trade. The current issue though, West Country 'Exeter' being the example, is not fulfilling existing retailer orders, disappointing the customers of those retailers, and then selling that model direct. There are complaints on here by modellers who had pre-ordered this model in good faith from retailers who, in turn, had placed orders with Hornby. The model arrives in insufficient quantities (maybe Hornby are blameless, who knows) but they then cancel these orders, the retailer and customer miss out, whilst those quick enough snap them up direct from Hornby. I have no interest in a model of Exeter but I'd be a bit tee'd off if I'd preordered one and lost out in these circumstances. I'm not having a go because of the low numbers available, I don't know the reason for that, but to me, the way Hornby allocated some to their own website whilst cancelling existing orders is a bit shabby. If I want to pre-order a new Hornby model, what does this example say to me? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dunsignalling Posted November 22, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 22, 2014 afriad I'm 180 degrees with you on that. I don't understand the business model for a retail shop at all. Order, put box on shelf, sell box. Retain margin. No added value at all. That's why the smart retailers are going into manufacturing, and Hornby is going into retailing. ..... but trying to keep the retailers just sweet enough to keep Hornby afloat until they get direct selling working well enough to survive without them. John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coombe Barton Posted November 22, 2014 Share Posted November 22, 2014 It may well be, but 'half' sounds like 'Darth'. 'Demi' doesn't! Harf? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butler Henderson Posted November 22, 2014 Share Posted November 22, 2014 With all this duplication it time reviews also addressed the practicality of handling a model, in the past given the choice between Bachmann and Hornby on duplications the blue box lot win on the basis that you can at least touch the model, like rerail it, without fear of something snapping off. Still expect the "Bargain Hunters" thread to fill up in a year or two on news of super cheap Radials, 71s and 1366s as none of them are locos which you could describe both as numerous and wide ranging geographically. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
southernelectric Posted November 22, 2014 Share Posted November 22, 2014 No comparison. Kernow are a long established retailer, commissioning (and taking the full risk) on new models and so, quite rightly, retain exclusive retail rights. I do not see how anything they, or Hattons or Rails, are doing being in any way comparable to Hornby's actions. Hornby, established even longer, are a manufacturing company (in essence) who have for decades sold their wares through the retail trade, a mutually beneficial situation. Without that retail sector, and pre internet, there'd be no Hornby. Now, if Hornby decide to supply direct only, that's not showing much loyalty to their established retail customers but that's business, things move on, and I could understand it. Selling direct whilst undercutting retail customers whom they still expect to sell their wares is, well, at the least, a strategy designed to alienate the retail trade. The current issue though, West Country 'Exeter' being the example, is not fulfilling existing retailer orders, disappointing the customers of those retailers, and then selling that model direct. There are complaints on here by modellers who had pre-ordered this model in good faith from retailers who, in turn, had placed orders with Hornby. The model arrives in insufficient quantities (maybe Hornby are blameless, who knows) but they then cancel these orders, the retailer and customer miss out, whilst those quick enough snap them up direct from Hornby. I have no interest in a model of Exeter but I'd be a bit tee'd off if I'd preordered one and lost out in these circumstances. I'm not having a go because of the low numbers available, I don't know the reason for that, but to me, the way Hornby allocated some to their own website whilst cancelling existing orders is a bit shabby. If I want to pre-order a new Hornby model, what does this example say to me? Great post! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Vistisen Posted November 22, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 22, 2014 IMHO Hornby is making a mistake if that is their medium-long term strategy....very sorry state of affairs if you ask me... I agree that it is a shame, But I don't agree that it is a mistake. Like it or not, it is the effect of the internet. That is why record shops have all but disapeared from the high street. Why have to pay a fortune for parking and trudge around trying to find the music you want in the rain,when you can just order it on the web? Especially if like me you live abroad. Of course 10 years from now Hornby's long term strategy will need to be even more radical than just cutting out the 'middle man'. They will need to become virtual. We'll all be complaining about the lack of even the internet shops, at least those of us who do not have 3D printers will. The rest will be busy downloading the 3d design for each and every individual locomotive or coach ever buillt and printing the individual train that we remeber from that day trip to London, or whatever. I forsee a time where it is only the motors, electronics and possibly wheels that are manufactured and sold. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted November 22, 2014 Share Posted November 22, 2014 Plenty of goodies on show. The LMS non corridors look to be Period II.....Composite, brake third and all-third but no indication on display of a push pull variant. It is bound to follow. Looks like Hornby has started eating into my range, not that it matters now. The 47XX 2-8-0 is being done at long last, it will make for an impressive model. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffalo Posted November 22, 2014 Share Posted November 22, 2014 Nick.Would it be possible to go through the railmotor liveries saying what years they're suitable for please.The Kernow site has no info as yet on this.I'm looking at the choc/ cream version but would look at the others too. That's putting me on the spot, Robin, as I'm far from an expert on the liveries. However, broadly speaking, the liveries are much the same as those of the trailers and this is covered in great detail in John Lewis' autotrailers volumes. The following is a brief summary and omits much detail. The dates refer to new builds and subsequent repaints, earlier liveries could be expected to persist for a few years after these. 1. Up to 1908 - fully lined chocolate & cream as per current main line stock. The last photo of 61 in the announcement at the start of the topic shows one form of this with the 1906 'prize' monogram, but others had the more familiar curly monogram or the garter coat of arms and supporters. 2. from some time in 1908 - all-over brown livery with garter and supporters. 3 1912 - lined lake livery with garter and supporters and GWR on waist panel 3a. some may have received a khaki repaint during war time, uncertain but some trailers apparently had this. 4 1922 - return to fully lined chocolate and cream with garter and supporters, but mouldings (those that remained) were brown rather than black. 4a. 1924 - narrow cream panel appears at outside corner of driving windows. 5. 1927 - simplified form of chocolate and cream as on other coaching stock, garter and supporters replaced in late 1927 by Bristol/London arms (see photo of 97 in announcement at start of topic) many minor variations over subsequent years Given that the last ones were withdrawn in 1935, it's possible, though unlikely that any received the shirtbutton. Nick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Budgie Posted November 22, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 22, 2014 It's all an bit Orribly Oversized news so far, is there any news of other scales/gauges . . . . and in particular anything newly announced in N gauge? I would hope those 116, 117 and 118 DMUs would be ideal for issuing in N. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
durham light infantry Posted November 22, 2014 Share Posted November 22, 2014 I agree that it is a shame, But I don't agree that it is a mistake. Like it or not, it is the effect of the internet. That is why record shops have all but disapeared from the high street. Why have to pay a fortune for parking and trudge around trying to find the music you want in the rain,when you can just order it on the web? Especially if like me you live abroad. Of course 10 years from now Hornby's long term strategy will need to be even more radical than just cutting out the 'middle man'. They will need to become virtual. We'll all be complaining about the lack of even the internet shops, at least those of us who do not have 3D printers will. The rest will be busy downloading the 3d design for each and every individual locomotive or coach ever buillt and printing the individual train that we remeber from that day trip to London, or whatever. I forsee a time where it is only the motors, electronics and possibly wheels that are manufactured and sold. Because you live abroad you have no choice, but every UK based modeller who uses the internet has helped push this rolling snowball downhill. But that doesn't excuse Hornby's crass, insensitive and downright traitorous approach to, well everyone but themselves. Sure, order everything on-line. But where does that leave you on a Saturday afternoon when you run out of consumables like rail joiners? You can't pop down to your local model shop because it's closed, and you sure as hell can't 3D print them. Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Clive Mortimore Posted November 22, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 22, 2014 Plenty of goodies on show. The LMS non corridors look to be Period II.....Composite, brake third and all-third but no indication on display of a push pull variant. It is bound to follow. Looks like Hornby has started eating into my range, not that it matters now. The 47XX 2-8-0 is being done at long last, it will make for an impressive model. Hi Larry They do not appear to have the curved rain strip on the rooves, would that make them Period III coaches? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
southernelectric Posted November 22, 2014 Share Posted November 22, 2014 I agree that it is a shame, But I don't agree that it is a mistake. Like it or not, it is the effect of the internet. That is why record shops have all but disapeared from the high street. Why have to pay a fortune for parking and trudge around trying to find the music you want in the rain,when you can just order it on the web? Especially if like me you live abroad. Of course 10 years from now Hornby's long term strategy will need to be even more radical than just cutting out the 'middle man'. They will need to become virtual. We'll all be complaining about the lack of even the internet shops, at least those of us who do not have 3D printers will. The rest will be busy downloading the 3d design for each and every individual locomotive or coach ever buillt and printing the individual train that we remeber from that day trip to London, or whatever. I forsee a time where it is only the motors, electronics and possibly wheels that are manufactured and sold. Some valid points for sure...and I do buy model railway products from online sources (mostly those who also have a bricks and mortar setup too) as I can't always find what I'm looking for in the shops nearest to me - but I have spent a lot of money at the shops in my area (all too few nowadays sadly) as I wish to support them as best as I can. The record shop analogy is interesting, I for one was sad to see HMV go the way it did...I used to spend a small fortune in their stores but their prices became ridiculous and it got to the point where I didn't know if I was walking into a music store anymore as they had diversified SO much I couldn't find the music CDs I wanted so went online to get them. As an aside HMV has not learned its lesson, it has reinstated its loyalty card but no online retail presence! Aside from that, with the advent of music downloads, iTunes et al, HMV could not sustain the cost of so many expensive retail outlets. I still buy vinyl from time to time, and I buy most of it from a bricks and mortar shop with an online presence. The only reason I don't go to the shop is because it's about 150 miles from where I live. The model shop still has a place and if Hornby wants to cut out the middle man then so be it. But I still think it's a mistake. I've seen companies in my field of work do it and the end result was not a good one for the companies who took that route, in just about every situation that I can recall... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coombe Barton Posted November 22, 2014 Share Posted November 22, 2014 All these announcements are all very well. It's when they turn into deliveries in sufficient quantity to satisfy the demand that the pudding will have been proven. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Vistisen Posted November 22, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 22, 2014 Because you live abroad you have no choice, but every UK based modeller who uses the internet has helped push this rolling snowball downhill. But that doesn't excuse Hornby's crass, insensitive and downright traitorous approach to, well everyone but themselves. Sure, order everything on-line. But where does that leave you on a Saturday afternoon when you run out of consumables like rail joiners? You can't pop down to your local model shop because it's closed, and you sure as hell can't 3D print them. Mike Are you sure about that? http://www.shapeways.com/materials/steel Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted November 22, 2014 Share Posted November 22, 2014 Hi Larry They do not appear to have the curved rain strip on the rooves, would that make them Period III coaches? Absolutely. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
alfsboy Posted November 22, 2014 Share Posted November 22, 2014 I believe that the correct term is a Demi Vader. Could be a Daft Vader . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NSE DAZ Posted November 22, 2014 Share Posted November 22, 2014 I would hope those 116, 117 and 118 DMUs would be ideal for issuing in N. I am with you guy's on that Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redford73 Posted November 22, 2014 Share Posted November 22, 2014 No one on this thread has pointed out that Hornby have always charged a high price on their releases when offered from the official Hornby website. If they are proposing to supply direct/retail at similar prices they probably wont get much custom anyway and then there's the point made above about slow delivery/supply. Or are they actually proposing abandoning selling to retailers at all? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redford73 Posted November 22, 2014 Share Posted November 22, 2014 Comptonnut - I also did the 121 chassis change but found it didn't pull the 3 car Lima set very well and would stall occasionally. Did you have this problem? Having asked it is probably an otiose point now that Kernow are issuing the new models! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium ColinK Posted November 22, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 22, 2014 Wow, how lucky we are to have so many exciting new models for us all to look forward to. So, many thanks to all the manufacturers and suppliers for their committment to the hobby and for bringing us such good news. Thanks also to Andy and others for sharing the info with us. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Hilux5972 Posted November 22, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 22, 2014 Was anyone able to get any video of the Hornby running samples they said would be on their stand? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
southernelectric Posted November 22, 2014 Share Posted November 22, 2014 No one on this thread has pointed out that Hornby have always charged a high price on their releases when offered from the official Hornby website. If they are proposing to supply direct/retail at similar prices they probably wont get much custom anyway and then there's the point made above about slow delivery/supply. Or are they actually proposing abandoning selling to retailers at all? In answer to your last question, I can't speak for what Hornby but I certainly hope not. As I've pointed out somewhere else (possibly even in this thread but I've lost track today with all the posts I've made on this subject!) there are other considerations when you move from an indirect to a direct sales model. There's economies of scale to consider for a start, and the costs of putting in place the things needed to do business direct with every customer can outweigh any revenue gains to be had by cutting out the middle man. I've seen companies in my field of work do it and when they've abandoned their dealer network entirely it has usually backfired on them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold martin_wynne Posted November 22, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 22, 2014 I forsee a time where it is only the motors, electronics and possibly wheels that are manufactured and sold. I've got to make my own Seccotine? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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