Hornby's Warley Announcements.

[Raised On Steam]

The duplications are very frustrating. In an ideal world the manufacturers would get round a table at the beginning of each year and duke it out as to who is to produce what.

[APOLLO]

The duplications are very frustrating. In an ideal world the manufacturers would get round a table at the beginning of each year and duke it out as to who is to produce what.

 

dibber25 explains why they can't here

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/92460-model-rail-december/page-2

 

Complicated world we live in these days.

 

Brit15

[papagolfjuliet]

Oh yes they will, because they are tooling up the wrong models. If they think that the market is going to shrink they should be tooling up for things that will continue to sell in the greatest numbers, not duplicating things that will only sell as one-offs.

 

Fair point. 

[rovex]

Right, now we've hopefully got out of our system how evil Horn by is for making a model of something we've been wanting them to do for years can we please get back to the Ill informed speculation and wish listing I've come to expect from this thread every year.

 

Dean

[JSpencer]

Let's see, many (even most) companies announce model locos as soon as they know then intend to do them these days.

 

Heljan and Dapol with the DP2 for example, Dapol quickly backed out once they probably realised they were not going to beat Heljan being first to the market.

 

Even Bachmann these days states it's plans before they have progressed far (an exception being commissioned items which they leave to the party to decide).

 

Oxford follow a policy of not saying anything until tooling begins. Doubtless thus is cultural, dating from the days when the market was far bigger and they did not want competitors jumping on the same boat.

These days - unless it's an A4 or Tornado - the market is not big enough to support 2 players on 80% of the subjects, so we are hardly going to see railway model manufacturers doing "me too" products.

The 1970s could support 3 King models, I rest sceptical for 2015, but will admit it is a somewhat popular class though not as popular as an A4.

 

Hornby too still have much of this culture of not announcing items until development is well announced. They could also be unfortunately targeted by faster manufacturers who would try to beat them to it (they experienced this in the past with Lima!).

IF Oxford is announcing at the last minute, through fear of a "me too" copying them, then they might be capable of "me too" themselves.

Meaning Hornby or Bachmann announce years in Advance and Oxford say jumps in and beats them to it... (I think common sense would say they did not but this is just to give a hypothetical example).

 

I agree with Chris of the vast sums being poured in. People resources will see them buying "must haves" first with "nice to haves" year or years later IF resources become available.

 

Too much at once means longer recovery times or worse bankruptcy.

 

I will let each manufacturer decide whether of not it is vital to continue, but longer recovery times means delays before the next program.

[phil gollin]

For the avoidance of doubt...

 

That's my company doing all their scanning (Motion Associates Ltd - www.vfxscanning.com ) ...........

 

 

.

 

It  SEEMS  that the scan was done from a helicopter  -  is that so, or merely the land based scan being shown from an advantageous angle ?

 

.

[doublecee]

The beauty of working in a virtual domain (CGI), is that you can put your virtual camera anywhere. 

 

But if I had a pound for each time I am asked how I managed to get so hi, I could retire or finally find the time to make my own film

 

CC

[andyman7]

The question is, "how many sets of six-figure tooling costs" can the funds available from modellers repay in full with a profit? We currently have a glut of 60+ years old modellers with disposable income. In ten years time, many of them won't be in that fortunate position. Will 50+ age group modellers, without such disposable income  (because of pension changes etc) still be able to repay the costs of a hobby which - currently - seems to be profligate with tooling funds?

CHRIS LEIGH

This puts me in mind of previous peaks in model railway production - initially in the late 50s/1960s with Hornby Dublo/Triang and later in the late 70s with Airfix/Palitoy/Lima. Much of this tooling went on to have very long lives - examples include the Hornby Dublo A4 which had a life of some 50 years including Wrenn; the Triang 0-6-0 Diesel Shunter body tool of 1956 that was still making Thomas range bodies until about 5 years ago; the Airfix Mk2Ds from 1976 only just superceded by Hornby's new Mk2E; the 1980 Palitoy/Mainline Warship body tool that Bachmann will only now likely retire now that they are making a class 43 variant.

My point is that the glut of models from the last 15 years or so will I think help feed a smaller market in years to come as there will be a lot of kit out there that some enterprising soul or other will be able to put to good use without having to tool up for completely new models.

[JSpencer]

.

 

It  SEEMS  that the scan was done from a helicopter  -  is that so, or merely the land based scan being shown from an advantageous angle ?

 

.

Once it is scanned, you can view the computer model from any angle and distance you like. You can even have a virtual camera flying in and around the target, generating a film. The same can by done with a CAD image, albeit the background and surrounds are not likely to be included.

[Forester]

Does 'Ed 66 Plant' whos clearly been reading this thread want to explain how he can possibly disagree with post no. 9 on this thread. http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/92813-Hornby-2015-range-announcemennts/?p=1669269

 

 

Or is it just yet another reader on here who clicks disagree then says nothing, because you voice an opinion different to theirs...

 

People are entitled to disagree with comments made here and are not required to give their reasons - unless forum rules have been changed.

 

Naming and challenging people who "disagree" is a form of bullying.

 

One would hope the Mods will discourage this activity if it continues.

[it's-er]

In Hornby's footage, the surrounding area IS shown! At one point there are 2 man standing together, looking as if they are talking. And you can even see the maker's plate on the side of the GCR D11 Director in the adjacent siding!

 

I wondered if that footage had been done with a drone: surely use of a helicopter would have cost too much? But presumably a quick fly by with a drone wasn't the full extent of the scan? Wouldn't some scanning have been done at ground level close to the locomotive itself?

 

John

[Red Devil]

Does 'Ed 66 Plant' whos clearly been reading this thread want to explain how he can possibly disagree with post no. 9 on this thread. http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/92813-Hornby-2015-range-announcemennts/?p=1669269

 

Written 5 days ago, mainly in jest, over the idea that there could be things happening, yet before all the annoucements were made...

 

Or is it just yet another reader on here who clicks disagree then says nothing, because you voice an opinion different to theirs...

 

Or is it just yet another Southern Modeller (like 2ManySpams and PaulG) throwing rattles out of prams when some of us question just why they they get duplication over some small fleet novelty engine's and the rest of us have no main range loco fleet engines? Then just cowardly go and hit the disagree option! Tisk Tisk....

I've no idea as to Ed 66 Plant motives, and nor do I care....

 

But the rest of the post is really over the top drivel.....

 

I think most on here have 'got' the fact that you're desperate for NE region locos, but the never ending banging of the drum is getting exceptionally boring and then you moan about personal attacks whilst attempting an attack on several other members.

 

I rarely get involved with this stuff, but seriously, it may be time to wind your neck in a bit. 

[JSpencer]

In Hornby's footage, the surrounding area IS shown! At one point there are 2 man standing together, looking as if they are talking. And you can even see the maker's plate on the side of the GCR D11 Director in the adjacent siding!

I wondered if that footage had been done with a drone: surely use of a helicopter would have cost too much? But presumably a quick fly by with a drone wasn't the full extent of the scan? Wouldn't some scanning have been done at ground level close to the locomotive itself?

John

Nope, it is only a virtual camera flying around the resulting scan(s) in a computer.

[jjb1970]

I'm more optimistic about the future than some as I suspect that there will always be kiddies with an interest in trains and I think even if the train set market is not what it was some people will find the hobby later when they have disposable income and get bitten by the bug. I do think it will not be the mass market toy/hobby it was in my youth but I do think there is a long term future business. Whether or not that will sustain six manufacturer/suppliers (Hornby, Bachmann, Heljan, Dapol, Oxford & DJM) plus niche players like Rapido and the retailers developing their own ranges is another story entirely.

[doublecee]

OK... to be clear, all scanning was done from the ground. If you look at my footage in HD you will get a better feel for how it was done.

 

click on full screen button to get a better view

 

This is the same footage I generated for the 71 launch.

 

The fact that you are looking down on it from the sky has no relevance to how it was scanned. This animation was done in a 3D package that allows you to place and animate a virtual camera anywhere in space.

 

No drones, helicopters, magic laser fairies or pixie dust were used in the making of this video.

 

The scanner itself captures a full 360 degrees from each position (of which there are many), so as a consequence of scanning an asset you are also scanning everything else in the area, including people standing around and chatting. And in the case of this scanner its range is 130 meters. My other scanners can go as far as 330 meters and more.

 

I then remove what I don't need before arriving at the final pre CAD delivery. Hopefully this running description clarifies the visuals for you.

 

Anyway, that's all from me now on the subject. I'm looking forward to watching the development of these projects immensely with the rest of you that are keen to get their hands on the Hornby announced 71 and Radial. Hopefully I have given you a little insight into the process. I'm not at all interested in discussing any of the other hot topics.

 

I like model trains, I love scanning big trains and enjoy the fact that as a result of my attention to detail and determination to always deliver kick-*ss scans, you get to play with exceptional working scale replicas that allow you to fully enjoy the hobby for many years to come.

[rovex]

So - desperately trying to move the thread along - with a new king, Adams radial, class 71 and NE hopper announced a and some LMS non corridor stock displayed do we think anything else 'new' will be announced on 17 Dec?

[The Black Hat]

I've no idea as to Ed 66 Plant motives, and nor do I care....

 

But the rest of the post is really over the top drivel.....

 

I think most on here have 'got' the fact that you're desperate for NE region locos, but the never ending banging of the drum is getting exceptionally boring and then you moan about personal attacks whilst attempting an attack on several other members.

 

I rarely get involved with this stuff, but seriously, it may be time to wind your neck in a bit. 

 

The above was written with sarcasm mainly in mind, but it wouldnt be the first time a post here has fallen foul of that. I dont mind others expressing an opinion, but think the disagree tab here ought to be really used lightly and if so, a chat about why... its a forum after all.

 

On a personal note my recent stuff has changed tone. Im happy the K1 and Q6 are on their way in time, but would be happy to see other that have waited a while also feature, like those wanting Scottish stuff, and more pregrouping generally. Of course transition period always sells and features onto popularity wishlists so will be interesting to see where the market goes with all these custom orders, and shop commissions added too, even if some types are duplicated. 

[Red Devil]

So - desperately trying to move the thread along - with a new king, Adams radial, class 71 and NE hopper announced a and some LMS non corridor stock displayed do we think anything else 'new' will be announced on 17 Dec?

 

I'll hazard a guess at an ex LNER 0-6-0 tank, either J50 or J69, so there's no chance of that this year.....

 

However I did say a 71 last year and we got 2 this year so I'll know what to go for in the 2016 thread....

[The Black Hat]

So - desperately trying to move the thread along - with a new king, Adams radial, class 71 and NE hopper announced a and some LMS non corridor stock displayed do we think anything else 'new' will be announced on 17 Dec?

 

Maybe a unit. All new tool class 156, but save that little else I expect. Most of that this week would have been the December announcement.

 

To be honest, announcing things at Warley this year seems to have gone a lot better than the usual December routine with embargos and worries about the news getting out.

[2ManySpams]

I've no idea as to Ed 66 Plant motives, and nor do I care....

 

But the rest of the post is really over the top drivel.....

 

I think most on here have 'got' the fact that you're desperate for NE region locos, but the never ending banging of the drum is getting exceptionally boring and then you moan about personal attacks whilst attempting an attack on several other members.

 

I rarely get involved with this stuff, but seriously, it may be time to wind your neck in a bit.

 

What he said.

[steve1023]

I was convinced we were getting a 4COR this year - there were rumours last year around June time which would put an announcement due about now, but Hornby over the last few years have only announced one D & E era item versus a few steam era items so maybe not for the COR seeing as we have got the 71.

 

Maybe a new range of coaches, Bullied perhaps or a new range of non-air con Mk2s to replace older tooling built to similar standard as the new Mk1s and Mk2s and maybe a Mk1 buffet car to supplement the existing range.

 

Wagons & kettles - ????

 

Steve

[talisman56]

I was convinced we were getting a 4COR this year - there were rumours last year around June time which would put an announcement due about now, but Hornby over the last few years have only announced one D & E era item versus a few steam era items so maybe not for the COR seeing as we have got the 71.

 

Maybe a new range of coaches, Bullied perhaps or a new range of non-air con Mk2s to replace older tooling built to similar standard as the new Mk1s and Mk2s and maybe a Mk1 buffet car to supplement the existing range.

 

Wagons & kettles - ????

 

Steve

 

You'll more likely see Bulleids out of the Bachmann stable - the Farish 'N' gauge ones put thru' the growth-ray...

 

You've still got time for your 4COR - Hornby make their official announcements on the 17th December.

[Arthur]

 

If you get a 'disagree', particularly on a post where it seems not to make any sense, just consider the 'iPad thumb'. I, and others, have commented before how easy, very easy, it is to inadvertently catch the disagree when using your right thumb to scroll the screen. Unless you spot it at the time, it's logged, and you cannot search for ratings you've left subsequently.

 

I have returned to threads in the past, seen a strange disagree left on a post and wondered what clown left that, only to look and find that it was me.

 

Just worth bearing in mind.

[it's-er]

OK... to be clear, all scanning was done from the ground.....

No drones, helicopters, magic laser fairies or pixie dust were used in the making of this video.

 

Hopefully I have given you a little insight into the process.

 

Yes, doublecee, you have given us a fascinating insight into the techniques imvolved in scanning, and it's really interesting. I would never have guessed this was all done from the ground. Yet another reminder of the wonders of modern technology ...... and of the interesting jobs some people have!

 

John

[doublecee]

Thanks John, much appreciated. My scale modelling skills in the real world are pitiful (I'm dreading the day I start my first proper layout)! Hopefully I make up for it in the digital realm ;-)