Hornby's Warley Announcements.

[it's-er]

Regarding the LMS coaches am I right in thinking this looks like a return to separatly fit roof vents? As opposed to moulded on

 

I note the LMS horsevan also has separately fitted roof vents - in contrast to the GWR version Hornby brought out several years ago, which were moulded on. The separately fitted items on the LMS version do really make quite a difference, comparing photos on here with my GWR horsevan.

 

John

[Arthur]

 

I'm pretty sure that none of the Crosti's, either before or after rebuilding, were fitted with double chimneys.

[JSpencer]

On the subject of the Crosti 9F:

 

Did any of them have a double chimney?

 

There was a guy at the Hornby stand complaining "Hornby have got it wrong again"

I asked him why and he said "They had double chimneys"

I replied that as far as I could remember the front chimney was only for fire lighting and was always single.

He insisted some had double Chimneys  - he could remember them from his time at Wellingborough shed!

 

Was he right or wrong? or memory playing tricks?

 

Keith

They are if you include the one on the side ;-))

 

But seriously the front chimney was a single one.

[Legend]

Im sure its Railroad because it derives from original 9F , but it is priced at higher than Railroad prices. Another part of the bewildering amount of ranges , spec levels within Hornby . However I'm sure if we are all complimentary theyll stick it in main range and add another £30 on for us. Sold direct only of course!

[Hilux5972]

It owes nothing to the old 9f except maybe the tender. It is a new body and a new chassis.

[Legend]

It owes nothing to the old 9f except maybe the tender. It is a new body and a new chassis.

I am puzzled as to why its Railroad then. Very puzzling!

[G-BOAF]

New chassis as in the the new railroad chassis that was released about middle of last decade (part of a full 9F upgrade that was cancelled when Bachmann released theirs)???

[Hilux5972]

No, new chassis as in completely new chassis. Lloyd, It is Railroad in that it is being produced to a reduced spec. Mostly moulded detail as oppose to seperately fitted. The same with the Halls, DoG, P2 etc. The cab interior will be plain, rather than the full fit out as per the Granges, A4's etc.

[APOLLO]

I have four of the "new" Railroad 9F's, 3 black uns and an Evening Star. Loco drive with sprung buffers & wire handrails, though big metal couplings front & back. I paid around £56 each a couple of years ago (Hattons).

 

They are all superb runners, and with a bit of added weight in the boiler (very easy to do) they are powerful locos also. They get a lot of use on my layout. I would like a Crosti but at over £100 a bit too steep for me, though I may just be tempted. I'm not pre-ordering though - sod that game. Based on the above the new Crosti should be an excellent loco.

 

Brit15

[Multiple identity account]

I could be wrong, but I saw a Network Rail Class 31 on display, numbered 31285...which I think is different from the last release 31233...

(I didnt ask as anyone from Hornby was surrounded by crowds)

Really? Can anyone confirm this?

[D1056WesternSultan]

What's wrong with some healthy competition it's not like this is the first duplicate is it. Hornby, Bachmann, helijan and V-trains have done a class 47. Hornby and Bachmann have done both a 66 and a peppercorn and A4's. Hornby and helijan have done a 58. Bachmann and Hornby have done 08 shunters even wagons and coaches are duplicated. We all seem to moan that so and so do this and wish someone else would. Wait to see what looks the better then buy it we now have 2 big company's and at least half a dozen smaller company's producing and model shops commissioning we have never had it so good bring it on and good luck to them all. Imagine putting this logic into car buying I'm sorry Mr Ford but your Focus is a small family hatchback like a VW Golf you shouldn't be making something the same (in contexts that there both hatch backs)

 

But how many Adams radials can one layout realistically use? 

 

Silly me I am forgetting myself.  The need for such obscure models in different livery variations and marks is not driven by those of us who actually build and operate model railways but by the collectors who obsessively hoard anything and everything to satisfy their OCD cravings.

[Gwiwer]

But how many Adams radials can one layout realistically use? 

 

Indeed.  But three survived long after the majority just as was the case with the Beattie well tanks.  Although not a competitive nor duplicative venture the initial runs of all have sold out leading to more being produced .....

[Oldddudders]

But how many Adams radials can one layout realistically use? 

If it's a LSWR suburban layout, potentially quite a few, I imagine. After all, there seem to have been 71 built.

[alfsboy]

But how many Adams radials can one layout realistically use? 

A lot of buyers in fact ,probably most, dont give a stuff about what their layout needs ,can support ,is authentic  etc .A bit like the plastic kit buyers .They/we all buy kits we cannot  hope to start in a reasonable time scale .In fact if everyone just built the kit they had just bought then waited until they had finished it to buy another one the industry would be dead on its feet .I know this for a fact as used to be in it selling kits in a shop .The customers just bought them and piled them up and its the same with any hobby of this type .Its lead by  impulse buying and getting it while you can .its new shiny and lusted for irrespective . of actual use .Of course this forum is full of noisy saints and quiet sinners .I am the latter .

[Dunsignalling]

But how many Adams radials can one layout realistically use? 

At any given time, two (in BR days). One worked the Lyme Regis branch each week with the changeover on a Saturday so that both locos were available to work the through coaches to/from Waterloo which exceeded the solo load limit. 

 

Officially, the other two would be maintenance/spare at Exmouth Jn when not on the branch but they did get used for other things. There is at least one published photo of two of them on the Seaton branch with a weedkilling train and such duties could have taken them to many other places. Indeed, at least in theory, it could result in all three being on their home turf at the same time.

 

John

[Dunsignalling]

A lot of buyers in fact ,probably most, dont give a stuff about what their layout needs ,can support ,is authentic  etc .A bit like the pastic kit buyers .They/we all buy kits we cannot  hope to start in a reasonable time scale .In fact if everyone just built the kit they had just bought then waited until they had finished it to buy another one the industry would be dead on its feet .I know this for a fact as used to be in it selling kits in a shop .The customers just bought them and piled them up and its the same with any hobby of this type .Its lead by  impulse buying and getting it while you can .its new shiny and lusted for irrespective . of actual use .Of course this forum is full of noisy saints and quiet sinners .I am the latter .

I always buy plastic wagon kits when they are first released and the mouldings are nice and crisp.

 

That way, even though I may be a decade behind with the building, I know I am working from the best possible starting point.

 

My excuse and I'm sticking to it.

 

John

[dibber25]

The question is, "how many sets of six-figure tooling costs" can the funds available from modellers repay in full with a profit? We currently have a glut of 60+ years old modellers with disposable income. In ten years time, many of them won't be in that fortunate position. Will 50+ age group modellers, without such disposable income  (because of pension changes etc) still be able to repay the costs of a hobby which - currently - seems to be profligate with tooling funds?

CHRIS LEIGH

[brushman47544]

As far as the radial is concerned the  I have heard is that it was being lined up for scanning in the coming month or two and I have heard that the owners, again, not only have no knowledge of anyone else going anywhere near it but were about to get involved with someone else in respect of the development of a model version of it.

 

The Hornby website for the Warley announcements has a photograph of the Radial being scanned at Sheffield Park, so it clearly has been done.

[doublecee]

For the avoidance of doubt...

 

That's my company doing all their scanning (Motion Associates Ltd - www.vfxscanning.com )

 

That's why I have not been able to comment on the numerous threads about the Radial and the 71, and will continue to refrain from any comment on the subject other than to say that I'm really looking forward to seeing both models from Hornby doing the rounds of my Garden Railway and office circuit. 

 

I have an official comment posted on linkedin here

 

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/article/20141123012109-10036401-on-the-right-track?trk=prof-post

 

Needless to say, I am exceptionally proud of the scans (which were done a while back) and the subsequent work by Hornby's CAD designer on the two projects.

 

I had a great time at Warley on Saturday where I was on hand at the Hornby stand to discuss the 71 Scan. It was most entertaining watching the near hypnotic effect the video had on those gathered around the monitor as the scan data was displayed. The feedback was incredible, and it was so nice to see people so excited by the process. 

[Dunsignalling]

The question is, "how many sets of six-figure tooling costs" can the funds available from modellers repay in full with a profit? We currently have a glut of 60+ years old modellers with disposable income. In ten years time, many of them won't be in that fortunate position. Will 50+ age group modellers, without such disposable income  (because of pension changes etc) still be able to repay the costs of a hobby which - currently - seems to be profligate with tooling funds?

CHRIS LEIGH models intr

The answer is that manufacturers will adjust their output to match demand (i.e. shrink it). 

 

It will become ever more important to avoid duplication, but it also means that they will have to keep market-leading 'bread and butter' models that generate regular repeat sales in their catalogues for fear of rivals filling any gap they allow to open.

 

Whether demographic changes actually lead to a reduction in the number of "lollipop" models introduced is debateable. We don't know what technology may be just around the corner and it is quite feasible that new techniques or materials might lead, not only to a reduction in tooling costs but also to the lead times required to launch models.

 

However, if we factor in a gradual decline in the numbers participating in the hobby due to death and lifestyle changes, that would release (possibly large) numbers of high quality models, bought in the 'golden' first decade of this century, on to the market. If your assumptions about declining disposable income are correct (and I think they are), the second-hand trade is likely to provide more significant competition to new sales than it does at present.

 

John

[Dunsignalling]

For the avoidance of doubt...

 

That's my company doing all their scanning (Motion Associates Ltd - www.vfxscanning.com )

 

That's why I have not been able to comment on the numerous threads about the Radial and the 71, and will continue to refrain from any comment on the subject other than to say that I'm really looking forward to seeing both models from Hornby doing the rounds of my Garden Railway and office circuit. 

 

I have an official comment posted on linkedin here

 

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/article/20141123012109-10036401-on-the-right-track?trk=prof-post

 

Needless to say, I am exceptionally proud of the scans (which were done a while back) and the subsequent work by Hornby's CAD designer on the two projects.

 

I had a great time at Warley on Saturday where I was on hand at the Hornby stand to discuss the 71 Scan. It was most entertaining watching the near hypnotic effect the video had on those gathered around the monitor as the scan data was displayed. The feedback was incredible, and it was so nice to see people so excited by the process. 

I don't suppose you would be inclined to reveal the extent of the "while"

 

John

[doublecee]

Im afraid Im not at liberty to discuss the nitty gritty. But I will say is this:

 

I protect all of my clients confidentiality with extreme prejudice, regardless of whether its for our film work or otherwise. I get involved in the project at the very earliest of stages, as we (Motion Associates & Hornby's dedicated team of researchers in this case)  look at the best time and location to scan a train, plane or car. In both cases, these scans were discussed prior to any announcement being made elsewhere. In these two cases, the biggest factor was making sure I was in the country and available. Since the original planning discussion, I have since completed three major motion pictures, so that should give you a little insight into the facts, especially if you are aware of how long principle photography takes on a film. 

 

That is all I am prepared to say, but I hope its enough to counter any and all of the negative commentary as well as the conspiracy theories that seem to have unfairly dominated recent discussion. 

[edcayton]

The answer is that manufacturers will adjust their output to match demand (i.e. shrink it). 

 

It will become ever more important to avoid duplication, but it also means that they will have to keep market-leading 'bread and butter' models that generate regular repeat sales in their catalogues for fear of rivals filling any gap they allow to open.

 

Whether demographic changes actually lead to a reduction in the number of "lollipop" models introduced is debateable. We don't know what technology may be just around the corner and it is quite feasible that new techniques or materials might lead, not only to a reduction in tooling costs but also to the lead times required to launch models.

 

However, if we factor in a gradual decline in the numbers participating in the hobby due to death and lifestyle changes, that would release (possibly large) numbers of high quality models, bought in the 'golden' first decade of this century, on to the market. If your assumptions about declining disposable income are correct (and I think they are), the second-hand trade is likely to provide more significant competition to new sales than it does at present.

 

John

 

 

Or to put it another way, the manufacturers (who are in business to make money) will milk the market while they can. As Chris said, there's lots of us wrinklies with spare dosh at the moment, who knows what tomorrow will bring?

From my point of view I'd rather not have duplication but, at the same time I'd rather not be plagued with CAD's, pre-production prototypes etc, and am aware that these two tend to cancel each other to some extent. We live in interesting times.

 

Ed

 

On re-reading this I realise that the first sentence comes across as anti-manufacturer. It's really not meant to as I appreciate the range and quality of today's models.

[papagolfjuliet]

The question is, "how many sets of six-figure tooling costs" can the funds available from modellers repay in full with a profit? We currently have a glut of 60+ years old modellers with disposable income. In ten years time, many of them won't be in that fortunate position. Will 50+ age group modellers, without such disposable income  (because of pension changes etc) still be able to repay the costs of a hobby which - currently - seems to be profligate with tooling funds?

CHRIS LEIGH

 

Conversely you could argue that tooling up now while modellers are willing to spend means that firms will not have to continually invest in new tooling during the lean years.

[Budgie]

Conversely you could argue that tooling up now while modellers are willing to spend means that firms will not have to continually invest in new tooling during the lean years.

Oh yes they will, because they are tooling up the wrong models. If they think that the market is going to shrink they should be tooling up for things that will continue to sell in the greatest numbers, not duplicating things that will only sell as one-offs.