Hornby's Warley Announcements.

[bennyboy]

Nah can you imagine Health and Safety with these rocket launchers. No chance,

 

Hornby actually re-released the rocket launcher in the 80s as part of the Task Force Action set, but they replaced the rockets with slightly less lethal expanded polystyrene balls!

[Dunsignalling]

I can agree the list I did doesnt reach that figure, but then its also ludicrious to suggest that companies would model every single one of those 70 at the expense of engines from other regions when some examples from eslewhere would sell more than the part of the 70 you quote that remain.

 

The fact is that the broad range has been done. You can model anywhere pretty much in the southern region and the line would look more or less accuarte and realistic because of the amount of stock that has been produced. With what I listed above you have the broad range of a locomotive fleet. Now with comissions such as the radial tank, and engines to come like the E4, Black Motor, and someone will plum for the S15, the Southern range has been done because not only are the steam models produced but also slam door stock, diesels and EDs. Coaching stock is also there as are wagons. Its all there ready for you to buy and model!

 

Other areas dont have that range. There are massive gaps in locomotive fleets for different regions and although others are noticing the trend into Eastern region machines, it still leaves massive swaithes of the territory not covered to any extend remotely close to what the Southern region fans currently enjoy. The Midland and Western are well supported too, with the former getting attention from Bachmann, but of course wish list polls and the companies own research show which engines are in demand. With so many modelling the Southern region because it has been done it means shops are confident to invest in producing models to cater for the novel engines that the market wants because they know many people model that area and as a result the demand is there.

 

Companies such as Hornby and Bachmann are opening up new areas as the contenders for choice become all the more interesting when the popular ones have been covered. Modern techniques means that some engines produced some years ago only need the chassis upgrade to meet the current standard. Bachmann have opened up the GC area, expanding into GN. Hornby have gone for GE, but the North East region and Scotland dont get anywhere near the attention of others despite significant polling in wish lists, but I believe they are slowly moving northwards.

 

To honestly suggest that the Southern region hasnt been done, when you compare it with elsewhere is more than stretching things a little.

The Southern (Railway or Region) wasn't a homogenised mixture of its constituents any more than the LNER/ Eastern region was. 

 

To cite one example I, as a modeller of the Southern Region in the West Country roughly 1958-62, have ordered a couple of Kernow O2s but can only justify running Brighton Atlantics or Lord Nelsons on unprototypically frequent (Pullman!) excursions. I have no operational use for a E4, C or USA class and my GE Section-modelling mate would feel the same way about a Q6 though he's very pleased about the D16, J15 and K1!

 

I am suitably grateful that Hornby have, in the past, produced a good proportion of the Southern locos I want and Bachmann have provided the Ivatt 2MT tank (honorary Southern) the N (if they were only going to do one Southern loco, boy did they pick the right one!) and BR Standards. There are also 64xx Panniers on the way which will suit my needs as well as a 1366 from anither source.

 

It's possible to run something that looks reasonably authentic and, for the late fifties/early sixties, I have amassed a good basic selection of coaching stock (Maunsell, Bulleid and BR Mk.1). I can cover at least some of the missing loco types by plausible substitution but the S.15 (especially the Maunsell type) represents a yawning chasm.

 

I already have one Radial (OO works) and will buy more but there are plenty of other prototypes to be done before there is anything like a comprehensive range. The obvious ones, from my point of view, are more M7 variants (Hornby have only done a couple), the H15, Q, U, air-smoothed MN and W, which would plug many of my personal gaps (I already have a kit-built Z).

 

However, anybody modelling the same area a decade or two earlier or the ex-LSWR nearer London will have wanted lists as long as your arm (D15, H16, G16, N15x, A12, T1, various 4-4-0s and 0-6-0s etc etc). On top of that lot, ex-LBSCR and ex-SECR steam has barely been touched.

 

I would instinctively prefer a Southern bias to an LNER one but using the SR (Western Section) vs GE Section comparison once more, Hornby will be getting the price of two or maybe three 700s out of me next year (but probably no more after that) and one each of the D16, J15 and K1 out of my mate - he wants more but will be relying on future extra runs for his multiple purchases. So we're about equal in 2015 but not later unless they come up with something else I will want.

 

I used to put about £1,500 a year Hornby's way during their Southern heyday - in 2014 they've released little that I want and I've spent barely £200. For the first time ever, my spend on S/H Hornby has exceeded that on new products. I hope for Hornby's sake that the Eastern fans are taking up the slack. 

 

John

[cctransuk]

It is true that sort of time-frame may often be the case but it is not necessary.

 

Agreed - but I was pointing out that the Adams Radial has been a distinct possibility from Hornby for a lot longer than many list members apparently imagine.

 

That is the traditional approach to developing models at the Big Two, I believe; perhaps the emergence of competitors, who do not have the baggage of 'this is how it's always been done', will instigate a more pro-active approach from the established duo?

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

[rovex]

I'm finding it curious that there seems to be alack of interest in Hornby's intentions for next year given the usual froth that accompanies this topic.

 

So far more posts seems to dwell on duplication - a topic which has been done to death on other topics and I believe has a topic all of its own.

 

Very little of the usual wishlisting that this subject usually gives rise to, and very little reasoned conjecture. So far I'm disappointed with you all - lol

 

So here goes - we've seen a CCT for both the LMS and LNER. The Southern range already includes one. Is it perhaps time for a long wheel base GWR van to stand alongside the others?

[JSpencer]

We only KNOW about one Radial so far, suggesting that only Oxford Rail have passed the point of no return.

 

If Hornby do announce a duplicate, we just won't hear any more about the ones that remain just rumours.

 

Nobody's going to admit to backing down over a model that they haven't actually announced!

 

The only true UK manufacturer of r-t-r locos in 4mm scale is OO Works whose products are more akin to batch produced kit buit locos. I own one of their Radials already.

 

Those (including Hornby) that we generally define as "R-t-r Manufacturers" are nothing of the kind these days. They are all effectively commissioners of varying size who work up the designs but are dependent on others to actually make their stuff.

 

Even assuming that Oxford are ahead of the field, they are not expecting the first EP sample until the new year. I very much doubt that anyone has yet booked production slots specifically labelled "Adams Radial" unless there has been an awful lot of secret development going on.

 

It is far more interesting IMHO to consider what might happen if Hornby DON'T announce a Radial at Warley!

 

John

While I do not disagree with the above, we could find the modern equivalent of the Rainhill trials at Warley this Saturday.

 

Oxfordrail have announced theirs, they say 1st EP due end of Q1 2015

 

Kernow have been posting pictures of Radials on Facebook for the past few weeks. They even released a Cad image of a chimney which was more akin to a SECR P class than a radial but that could be me daydreaming. Kernow are capable of red herrings.

 

Austrains/Britains might be thinking about a radial or something else. They seem to be late to the party anyway.

 

If Hornby have worked on one, that could mean a max of 3 companies at the CAD stage, too deep to back out.

 

I know from Airfix are using super duper scanning techniques now and the results are astounding.

 

I can understand all these manufacturers examining the beast, I examine it each time I visit the Bluebell, It was even my first kit build loco.

Of course Bachmann (whom I think also scanned the loco...) any the only manufacturer with experience making Atlantic locos.

 

I bet when Adams designed her, he never thought so many model railway manufacturers would flock round one, one day waving laser light machines at her....

[Legend]

Hornby's twitter feed has silhouette's of various steam engines which I presume will arrive or be announced this weekend. No idea if any of them are new.

 

 

Cheers, Mike

Obvious. The bottom trio are clearly smaller than the top two locos.......got to be the reintroduction of TT

[Oldddudders]

Obvious. The bottom trio are clearly smaller than the top two locos.......got to be the reintroduction of TT

Peco will be pleased.

[darren01]

Looking at this i think all of these are old news, have to wait and see this weekend.

[Oldddudders]

 

we've seen a CCT for both the LMS and LNER. The Southern range already includes one.

No as far as I am aware, although I believe Bachmann announced one a while back, but it has yet to appear. You may be thinking of the Southern Railway Van C, classified BY in BR days. This lacks the end-doors that make a CCT (Covered Carriage Truck, i.e. a wagon for conveying carriages) fit for purpose.

[Wicor Models]

2015 is the 50th anniversary of Sir Winston Churchill's death and funeral so  perhaps a Funeral Train Pack might be on the cards.

[Porcy Mane]

2015 is the 50th anniversary of Sir Winston Churchill's death and funeral so  perhaps a Funeral Train Pack might be on the cards.

Appropriate time for an upgrade to the venerable "Utility Van". Considering your comment  and the fact Churchills repatriated UTE is currently undergoing restoration.

 

 

Porcy

[The Stationmaster]

I bet when Adams designed her, he never thought so many model railway manufacturers would flock round one, one day waving laser light machines at her....

But reportedly the interesting (maybe worrying for some?) thing is that none of them have done so as yet.  An odd sidelight on the way things might be going as regards realism perhaps?

[County of Yorkshire]

So here goes - we've seen a CCT for both the LMS and LNER. The Southern range already includes one. Is it perhaps time for a long wheel base GWR van to stand alongside the others?

 

I hope you are right in this sense, however the question is: what would Hornby see as the equivalent GWR vehicle to the LMS & LNER CCT's? I first thought a newly tooled Siphon G, but this isn't, strictly speaking, a CCT. My mind then leaps to a Python, but these didn't last too long into nationalisation and never got anywhere near to receiving rail blue - which seems to be a key criteria for Hornby when choosing a CCT. Then you have the MOGO, but Bachmann make a pretty competent version, and it lacks the bulk of a longer wheelbase vehicle. 

 

That being said, and thinking with my Hornby hat on, a Siphon G - probably inside framed - would have to be the choice? Ticks a few of Margate's boxes in that it doesn't look like anything else from any of the big 4; many survived to receive rail blue; they were widely travelled; and they were built in pretty big numbers across three decades - with many seeing ambulance train use in the Second World War, newspaper use, and even as ENPARTS vans much later on. Hmmm. 

 

Also, I think most disciples of Swindon would love to see a new passenger brake van that isn't the post-1948 Hawksworth K45, but I only think you would get one from Margate if they produced a new range of Collett or Churchward coaches, and I've given up on that as a prospect!

 

CoY

[Andy Y]

2015 is the 50th anniversary of Sir Winston Churchill's death and funeral so  perhaps a Funeral Train Pack might be on the cards.

 

I'd agree that there's an extremely high possibility of this but as the anniversary is January the devil in me wonders if some 'Exeters' have had a diversion to Handborough.

[Gwiwer]

What ever Hornby announce I am concerned that they might have slipped back into ways we hoped had been banished after previous furores.  

 

The following appeared in the Kernow MRC Newsletter today 

 

 

 

We have received a delivery from Hornby. Items R3099 / R3103 / R3115 / R3129 have been supplied today but only a tiny fraction of our order has been delivered. Hornby advise there will be no more of these items and we regret with the exception of R3103 we do not have enough to cover our pre-orders. Hornby say this is because Kader have only supplied a very small quantity of these models which they evidently only found out once they sent the deliveries out yesterday. We can only apologise for this as it is completely out of our control, although we do note that Hornby appear to have these models available for direct sale from their own website.

 

So a return to direct sales and to hell with the retailers then?  

 

There are clearly still some issues in the supply chain as many "2014" items hare now held over until as late as August 2015.

 

I don't indulge in froth-fests though speed-read the topics with some interest and no little amusement.  I would add this much though.  I am not personally aware of any arrangements to have the preserved 4-Cor scanned.  Though of course commercial confidence dictates that such things often happen amid strict secrecy.

[Dunsignalling]

If Hornby have worked on one, that could mean a max of 3 companies at the CAD stage, too deep to back out.

 

 

I would venture to suggest that the CAD stage is not too late to bail out but rather the last chance to do so.

 

Given that all the hardware and software has to be in place whatever is going to be made, the loss would be limited to whatever staff resources had been employed in getting to the point of cancellation. That could easily amount to £20k+ depending on how far the CAD process was advanced and how time-consuming the research prior to it had been. However, the really serious money doesn't start going out until metal cutting commences.

 

Oxford Rail anticipate their first EP sample in 2-3 months, so will have already passed that point; it remains to be seen if anyone else has.

 

John

[Mike Bellamy]

 

 

Will any of the 2015 information be reliable when you see how much stock already promised has been delayed further. Phil Parker on MRE has copied the full list of what is due and when from Hornby News pages - it is now available on MRE here

 

http://www.mremag.com/news/bulletin.asp

 

 

 

.

[Mel_H]

A routine Stock Exchange announcement this morning. These type of announcements (a half-yearly report) don't tend to be heavy on detail, but merely give an indication of how a company is doing. On the news, the share price rose by 1p to 73p

 

Hornby ANNOUNCES INTERIM RESULTS

 

 

Hornby Plc ("Hornby"), the international hobby products Group, today announces its interim results for the six months ended 30 September 2014.  Hornby owns a number of model railway and slot car brands including Scalextric, Airfix models, Humbrol paints and Corgi die cast models.

 

Highlights

 

·    Group sales increased by 8% to £24.2 million (2013: £22.4 million).

·    Sales of Model Rail products increased by 18%.

·    Underlying Group profit of £0.25 million (2013: Loss of £0.85 million).

·    Statutory loss for the period £0.52 million (2013: £1.09 million).

·    UK Warehouse move completed.

·    Investment in new ERP, Web development and new hires progressing well.

·    Successful launch of the following products:

-     Corgi Avro Vulcan B2

-     Scalextric Quickbuild Cops n Robbers set

-     Airfix 1:24 Hawker Typhoon Mk1b

-     Flying Scotsman train set

-     In Europe the 'Mod' coaches in N scale

·    Well positioned ahead of Christmas trading period

 

Richard Ames, Hornby Chief Executive commented,

 

"  We are encouraged with the advances that the Group is making.  During the first half of the year, the team has made material progress in organising the turnaround of the company.  The move to the new warehouse facility has been completed smoothly, which gives us the foundations on which we have the room to grow.

 

"  Looking ahead, the results for the full year will depend on the success of the Christmas trading season.  Current indications are that it will meet our expectations."

[Ian Hargrave]

Cross your fingers,Mr.Ames. To have a "good" Christmas,you need to get your products to the market place in good time and in good condition.On "our" section of the market,it's not happening,is it ?

[The Stationmaster]

I would venture to suggest that the CAD stage is not too late to bail out but rather the last chance to do so.

 

Given that all the hardware and software has to be in place whatever is going to be made, the loss would be limited to whatever staff resources had been employed in getting to the point of cancellation. That could easily amount to £20k+ depending on how far the CAD process was advanced and how time-consuming the research prior to it had been. However, the really serious money doesn't start going out until metal cutting commences.

 

Oxford Rail anticipate their first EP sample in 2-3 months, so will have already passed that point; it remains to be seen if anyone else has.

 

John

According to my information (quite a reliable source) no one has scanned the Adams radial - although it might have happened a very long time ago and have been forgotten by those who ought to know.  In fact it is known to me - if no one else - that several models currently claimed to be in quite advanced stages of development (i.e. cutting tooling) have not involved scans of the prototype and in one case I know that no one from one company has been anywhere near the prototype.  

Maybe some manufacturers aren't happy to lash out a few thousand £s on scanning or a few quid on a visit with a tape measure and camera and presume we'll accept anything?

 

PS lest it be misunderstood are am not placing Hornby in that category as they are one of the concerns who, I understand, maintain a set of master files for potential future models and might well have carried out a measuring visit way back in the past.

[Dunsignalling]

According to my information (quite a reliable source) no one has scanned the Adams radial - although it might have happened a very long time ago and have been forgotten by those who ought to know.  In fact it is known to me - if no one else - that several models currently claimed to be in quite advanced stages of development (i.e. cutting tooling) have not involved scans of the prototype and in one case I know that no one from one company has been anywhere near the prototype.  

Maybe some manufacturers aren't happy to lash out a few thousand £s on scanning or a few quid on a visit with a tape measure and camera and presume we'll accept anything?

 

PS lest it be misunderstood are am not placing Hornby in that category as they are one of the concerns who, I understand, maintain a set of master files for potential future models and might well have carried out a measuring visit way back in the past.

Scanning of preserved prototypes is the 'in' way to do things at present but plenty of accurate models were produced before it became affordable for modelling purposes.

 

Over the years most preserved locos have been measured more than once (privately or commercially) and there is plenty of 'official' info out there in terms of works drawings etc. We are all aware of the as-drawn/as built pitfall but no 100+ year-old preserved loco that has been overhauled numerous times is likely to tally with either condition!

 

I'm not suggesting that preserved examples of locomotives should not be scanned, nor that it is undesirable to do so, merely that there are other ways of skinning that particular cat and that equal care should be exercised when extrapolating from scanning data as with any other sort. If scanning were 'compulsory' we would also kiss goodbye to models of any prototype that didn't hold a winning ticket in the survival lottery.  

 

As a surviving member of a trio of locomotives that outlasted the rest of the class by several decades, I have no doubt that 488/30583 must incorporate parts recovered from a number of scrapped classmates of various batches so any scan of her as she is now can be relied upon to be exactly that but offers no more than a guide to the main dimensions of 30582/4 or any others in times past.

 

It's not a direct comparison but, a few years ago, I drew and made a model of a quite complex building based on a footprint derived from one aerial photograph and three taken from ground level, one of them from some way off. It was a potential disaster but I persevered and, when I eventually got hold of some drawings that had been measured directly off the prototype, my model was just 0.5% under width with my guesstimated position of a doorway a scale 2' out of place on the one elevation I didn't have a photo of! The way information is used and interpreted is just as important as how it is obtained.

 

John

[The Stationmaster]

Just one point tho' John - as someone (a former main works apprentice) once said to me many years ago 'don't trust a GA drawing, check the real thing and just look at the differences from the drawing', and he meant the real thing as built, not after it had passed through shops several times.

 

No doubt in mymind that the best sources are original drawings and hopefully the real thing to check against them plus piles of dated photos but of course, as you say, that's difficult when the real thing no longer exists, it's just a bit silly in my view to ignore it when it does.

[Dunsignalling]

Just one point tho' John - as someone (a former main works apprentice) once said to me many years ago 'don't trust a GA drawing, check the real thing and just look at the differences from the drawing', and he meant the real thing as built, not after it had passed through shops several times.

 

No doubt in mymind that the best sources are original drawings and hopefully the real thing to check against them plus piles of dated photos but of course, as you say, that's difficult when the real thing no longer exists, it's just a bit silly in my view to ignore it when it does.

Quite true. I was told the purpose of a GA drawing was more about how (and in what order) things went together than exactly what the individual bits looked like.

 

That being the case it wasn't vital to represent everything precisely. It wasn't unknown to see (for example) the dome drawn a foot out of place on a GA but it would be correct where it really mattered, on the boiler plans. 

 

In the case of the Radial, I don't think there'd be much advantage to be had from the extra cost of scanning above running a tape over her to verify or correct the GA. 

 

John

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

...I used to put about £1,500 a year Hornby's way during their Southern heyday - in 2014 they've released little that I want and I've spent barely £200. For the first time ever, my spend on S/H Hornby has exceeded that on new products. I hope for Hornby's sake that the Eastern fans are taking up the slack...

On the basis that we accept Hornby's observed behaviour as the result of the rationally applied business principle of 'following the money'; then following a tranche of four Eastern locos and half a dozen coaches as model subjects fairly briskly with the announcement of another four Eastern locos and some wagons, the answer is 'presumably yes'. (I am pretty sure they are not releasing such things out of noble hearted charity, entirely deserved though this would be considering  the merit of the subject matter.)

 

But likewise, I have succeeded in barely spending the same amount, thanks to there being no available product to receive in exchange for my dough...

[Mike Storey]

Hornby seem to be doing better abroad - 18% growth in model railway sales in Europe compared to only 5% in the UK. I wonder if that is to do with stock availability or some long planned re-releases (particularly of Lima continental outline stuff, which competes dramatically favourably on price compared with almost all other brands). 

 

Meanwhile, surely it is time for a 2SUB (we would be very lucky to get a 4SUB)? Why have they gone for the more obscure BIL's and HAL's up to now?

 

The Blue/Grey 4VEP allegedly arrives in a few weeks (according to Hornby's update). Let's see.