Class 800 - Updates

[PaulRhB]

And where the big money goes when it's a private pocket or international shareholders is irrelevant. How many 'British' firms actually put extra money into the country?, as much as possible dodges tax whatever the nationality

The taxes on products and workers jobs are the important bit so where the factory is is what really matters.

[The Stationmaster]

Pantograph lost just east of Tilehurst. MOM advises it was caused by pantograph being lowered too late before unenergised section onto Reading high level.

 

Interesting and informative thanks.

 

 I'm not surprised that they ran into problems if the pan wasn't lowered before they got to Scours Lane as much of the catenary which exists east of there has temporary fixings of various sorts including clips round the contact wire in various places in order to temporarily support it.  Oddly I was wondering yesterday while looking at exactly such a 'jury rig' on Platform 15 line at Reading what would happen if a pan hit it and equally of course if the contact wire hasn't been fully tensioned (as has been the case in several places west of Reading station) there could well be trouble before a pan goes high enough to auto-lower.

 

Alas its one of those problems that can occur during testing although similar things can happen with misroutings in traffic but it would be interesting to see the test programme procedures as doing ISA work years ago I came across another test procedure which had some very big holes in it regarding pantograph raising and lowering procedures (btw that won't be down to Hitachi but to the nominated 'operator' for the testing, whoever it happens to be).  

 

I shall try to lookout today as I travel westwards to see if there are any signs of disturbed knitting beyond the flyover.

[modfather]

Mike -

 

Gbrf drivers,

hitachi test staff who take responsibility for the train.

 

I can't recall the ADD max height.

[Ron Ron Ron]

In case you had not noticed, Derby is an indigenous train builder......

........it it is still British with all that British history that comes with it irrespective of who owns it.

 

In fairness, Ron Ron Ron did refer to indigenous train building companies, and it is correct to say that Bombardier are not a British company. ......

No intention to offend on my part.

jjb1970 sums up what I meant (thanks).

 

 

.

[Ron Ron Ron]

And where the big money goes when it's a private pocket or international shareholders is irrelevant.....

 

 

Indeed.

Almost all "big finance" programmes for large projects, whether private or public, have an international dimension.

For a start, where else would the money be found if not from global and international financiers?

 

For example, the source of the money to finance the two IEP orders (ECML & GWML fleets) includes amongst others......

 

HSBC, Lloyds, TSB, Mizuho, Sumitomo Mitsui Banking Corp, Sumitomo Mitsui Trust Bank, Bank of Tokyo Mitsubishi UFJ, Mitsubishi UFJ Trust, European Investment Bank, Japan Bank for International Cooperation. Development Bank of Japan, Société Générale and Crédit Agricole.

 

Had the IEP contract been awarded to some hypothetical, UK owned and based train builder, then a similar collection of international banks and finance houses would have been gathered to provide the necessary finance.

 

 

.

[surfsup]

Siemens use a lot of UK sourced technology in their trains too. All bolted together in a foreign factory, but they support lots of British industry. I think they even claim that they use more British components than Bombardier, but I can't be certain of that.

Indeed they do, Siemens also constructs the full cab modules, train control and train braking systems here in Britain before shipping them out to their various German and Austrian plants they operate. In fact it's quite impressive seeing a completed and assembled cab module ready and waiting to the shipped out to Germany to be fitted inside a Desiro!

 

A Bombardier product on the other hand typically uses large amounts of parts supplied by Bombardier's other offshore factories: A large proportion of the S Stock interior for example comes from China.

 

Going back to the original subject though, It hasn't been a good week for these two it appears. First the derailment in North Pole Depot, then a loss of Pantograph. I suppose it's all learning for the Hitachi teams. I Was wondering what was being announced as a broken down train outside Reading yesterday, and for once wasn't my old steed of 150001!

[Peter Kazmierczak]

International financing was ever thus, eg J P Morgan with the Titanic.

[jamie92208]

International financing was ever thus, eg J P Morgan with the Titanic.

 

Dutch and British money built a large part of the Union Pacific, and whisper it not but the Caledonian  Railway was largely financed with English money.

 

Jamie

[The Stationmaster]

Mike -

 

Gbrf drivers,

hitachi test staff who take responsibility for the train.

 

I can't recall the ADD max height.

 

Thanks.

 

Sounds like Gbrf will be the 'operator' then so it would be their safety documentation for train operation and someone else's for the technical stuff relating to the  test programme (Serco have done it for Hitachi in the past but maybe Hitachi are doing it themselves now as they're altogether a much bigger presence than they were a few years back?).

[The Stationmaster]

International financing was ever thus, eg J P Morgan with the Titanic.

And the SS Californian - not a lot of people realise that bit

[modfather]

Thanks.

 

Sounds like Gbrf will be the 'operator' then so it would be their safety documentation for train operation and someone else's for the technical stuff relating to the  test programme (Serco have done it for Hitachi in the past but maybe Hitachi are doing it themselves now as they're altogether a much bigger presence than they were a few years back?).

 

 

Test teams have been a mix of Hitachi, DB Minden, Alstom, and Brecknell Willis, amongst others. 

[Coach bogie]

I don't want to puncture any bubbles here, but where are all these super skilled indigenous British workers?

 Working overseas! Hardly a week goes by without one of my wife's British based oil industry engineers being given a better offer else where....and she works for an American company. The same goes for computer techs, several of whom have been snapped up by Chinese owned organisations recently. My son is at Medical school, several years from qualifying, yet there are overseas companies who want to 'keep in touch' for when he qualifies. Brain Drain is as strong as ever in the UK.

 

Mike Wiltshire

[modfather]

 Working overseas! Hardly a week goes by without one of my wife's British based oil industry engineers being given a better offer else where....and she works for an American company. The same goes for computer techs, several of whom have been snapped up by Chinese owned organisations recently. My son is at Medical school, several years from qualifying, yet there are overseas companies who want to 'keep in touch' for when he qualifies. Brain Drain is as strong as ever in the UK.

 

Mike Wiltshire

 

 

Yup, I've just left my place at Stoke Gifford TMC to work in Auckland for CAF rail... the 800's, AM class units here I come!

[Richard E]

Class 800 bodyshells now in full production in Japan for 65 new sets for introduction next year - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-39808537

 

And according to that article they are over a minute faster 0-125 than an HST or 225. Hmmm - in service and HST is slower accelerating than a 225 it seems given their relative timekeeping over the same stretch of line in similar weather conditions.

 

And I see a familiar name heading Hitachi Rail Europe - ex CEO of East Coast, make of that what you will.

 

And as an aside there was a set visible today at Doncaster IEP for the first time in a couple of weeks.

[Coach bogie]

Good progress has been made with the IEP platform extension at Northallerton.  The section over the bridge still has to be done, with the old deck currently sat on scaffolding.

 

IMG_7037.JPG

 

 

Also, the new cantilever signal Y476 has now been commissioned and the old one removed.  Parts of the old signal have been retained, in particular the theater route indicator box.

 

IMG_7038.JPG

 

I was at Northallerton this weekend. Progress appears to have slowed on the platform extension

 

Of interest on the platform- the new signal has developed a distinct droop.

 

 

Mike Wiltshire

Edited May 8, 2017 by Coach bogie

[Jaggzuk]

I think they are only working Saturday nights at the moment, but yes progress seems somewhat slow now.

 

As for the droop, it certainly looks like it.  But, there are lot of other things around it that not vertical/horizontal which may give the impression that the signal is leaning towards the track.  The platform has a notable fall towards the back edge, some OLE masts are not vertical at Northallerton, for example this one has also caught my eye for not being vertical and having a notable lean away from the track https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northallerton_railway_station#/media/File:Northallerton_railway_station_MMB_12_43XXX.jpg,  So it is difficult to tell.

['CHARD]

Test teams have been a mix of Hitachi, DB Minden, Alstom, and Brecknell Willis, amongst others. 

 

DB RTC test jockeys also.

[Kris]

Article on the Plymouth Herald website

http://www.plymouthherald.co.uk/the-hi-tech-bullet-trains-that-are-coming-to-plymouth/story-30361078-detail/story.html#lByUklHG4MhPjlgZ.99

Awful website full of advertising but lots of good pictures showing the construction that is underway.

[Ramblin Rich]

The article emphasises the salt water testing to 'Dawlish proof' the trains

Also interesting that there will be 4 car HSTs running Penzance - Plymouth (possibly to Exeter), I hadn't heard about that before.

[Siberian Snooper]

The article emphasises the salt water testing to 'Dawlish proof' the trains

Also interesting that there will be 4 car HSTs running Penzance - Plymouth (possibly to Exeter), I hadn't heard about that before.

I heard that they were to be 5 cars long.

 

I note that the hack has added 10 Metres to the length of a car, in the writen report.

[Co-tr-Paul]

4 car " HSTGTi ". Where have you been ?!!!

[St. Simon]

Also interesting that there will be 4 car HSTs running Penzance - Plymouth (possibly to Exeter), I hadn't heard about that before.

  

 

I heard that they were to be 5 cars long.

I note that the hack has added 10 Metres to the length of a car, in the writen report.

Yep 2+4 HSTs running in 158 timings, they are going to go like stink!

 

Simon

[D854_Tiger]

  

 

 

Yep 2+4 HSTs running in 158 timings, they are going to go like stink!

 

Simon

 

 

A 2+7 HST would be roughly the equivalent of nine car class 802, running on diesel, let's hope no one notices that the new trains aren't going to be anywhere near as powerful as the old trains through Cornwall.

[Budgie]

Article on the Plymouth Herald website

http://www.plymouthherald.co.uk/the-hi-tech-bullet-trains-that-are-coming-to-plymouth/story-30361078-detail/story.html#lByUklHG4MhPjlgZ.99

Awful website full of advertising but lots of good pictures showing the construction that is underway.

From the article:

GWR will continue to offer a Pullman dining service, keeping alive some of the romance of old-fashioned rail travel.

 

I didn't know GWR still had any Pullman cars.

 

Incidentally, I wasn't bothered by any ads on that site, thanks to my use of Adblock Plus.

[Zomboid]

A 2+7 HST would be roughly the equivalent of nine car class 802, running on diesel, let's hope no one notices that the new trains aren't going to be anywhere near as powerful as the old trains through Cornwall.

Everything's a bit of a gentle trundle past Exeter, so the lack of power may not be much of an issue.

Aren't most of the beyond Plymouth trains going to be 5s? Should be fun when we have a warm weekend without 12 weeks notice.