No Decorum Posted November 29, 2015 Share Posted November 29, 2015 Nice. I think far too many PO wagons run singly. Dapol knocks out a Nathaniel Atrill wagon no. 6. Hornby has decided to knock out a no. 6 as well. Bachy has announced a battered coal wagon trio. Underneath all the grime, guess what the Atrill number is! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted November 29, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 29, 2015 Nice. I think far too many PO wagons run singly. Dapol knocks out a Nathaniel Atrill wagon no. 6. Hornby has decided to knock out a no. 6 as well. Bachy has announced a battered coal wagon trio. Underneath all the grime, guess what the Atrill number is! Of course it might just have been that Nathaniel Atrill only had one wagon - numbered '6' in order to create the impression he had more. He defnitely wouldn't have been the first person in the coal business to play taht little trick. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Decorum Posted November 29, 2015 Share Posted November 29, 2015 Oh yes but do we need three no. 6s? I've no idea if it was authentic or not but Hornby produced a triple pack many years ago. I think they were red. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Decorum Posted November 29, 2015 Share Posted November 29, 2015 R6115, produced 2000 & 2001, running numbers 20, 24 & 25. I think I would prefer different but spurious running numbers to multiples with the same number. What I do is buy one single and jump at triple packs. Perhaps far too many private owner wagons run in threes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium petethemole Posted November 29, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 29, 2015 The plan with those 3 is two loaded, one empty. A running session might involve one in the coal siding waiting to unload, one empty to be made up into an up goods, and one loaded to arrive on a down goods. Where I would run several from the same owner would be from a colliery or coal factor intended for a heavy user, such as the gas works, or RN Portland. It might be an idea to get the layout built though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garethp8873 Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 Whilst browsing the Model Railway Express website and looking at the "Seen at Warley 2015" section, I came across the two new wagons that are meant to come out this month and alongside them another two wagons... Correct me if I'm wrong, I don't recall John Facer & CO and Shirebrook being announced... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium melmerby Posted December 7, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 7, 2015 Bachy has announced a battered coal wagon trio. Underneath all the grime, guess what the Atrill number is! Bachmann 37-059 was No.6 and GF 377-026A! Keith Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Rowsley17D Posted December 8, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 8, 2015 The Shirebrook seems to have an odd number and livery compared with pre-1900 wagons. According to Turton, PO Wagons no 12 the last 10 ton wagon was numbered 1609 and the number was underneath the left-hand side of Shirebrook. It seems the last supplied wagons went up to number 1664 and were 12 tonners. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adams442T Posted December 11, 2015 Share Posted December 11, 2015 Just ordered a pair of the 'F. Warren & Co., London' wagons and found that the livery is pre-1908. Not sure of the period of the 'John Facer & Co.' wagons yet though. Such as shame they didn't go for the earlier RCH mineral wagons as I'll now have to think about a new chassis for them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BG John Posted December 11, 2015 Share Posted December 11, 2015 Just ordered a pair of the 'F. Warren & Co., London' wagons and found that the livery is pre-1908. Not sure of the period of the 'John Facer & Co.' wagons yet though. Such as shame they didn't go for the earlier RCH mineral wagons as I'll now have to think about a new chassis for them. In all this discussion, have we decided what the differences are to earlier RCH wagons? Is it practical to make changes to make them a reasonable representation? I then might be tempted by any in early 1900s liveries to build up my collection of PO wagons. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rail-Online Posted December 11, 2015 Share Posted December 11, 2015 In all this discussion, have we decided what the differences are to earlier RCH wagons? Is it practical to make changes to make them a reasonable representation? I then might be tempted by any in early 1900s liveries to build up my collection of PO wagons. 12Ton wagons of the size depicted by Oxford Rail were like rocking horse droppings before about 1912. They also had different axleboxes as the RCH Oil box had not been invented. The earlier wagons were simply smaller (both in height and length) and of 8 or 10 Tons capacity. Many liveries such as the F Warren were short lived and became other concerns, for example F Warren merger with Coote to becme 'Coote and Warren' of Peterborough and were a major player in East Anglia from about 1910 throught to WW2. Therefore the Oxford Rail wagon is completely inappropriate. Tony Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BG John Posted December 12, 2015 Share Posted December 12, 2015 Replacing axleboxes is no problem. If I did get one to mess around with, it might get new W-irons anyway, so I can compensate it while converting to EM. But cutting down the body may be more challenging. I was curious about what might be possible, as I don't think there are any 4mm PO wagons available RTR or as kits for the early 1900s, and my stock of Slaters kits will run out one day. If it can be knocked about in a way that retains an early 1900s livery, that would be even better, even if it's from the wrong area. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwealleans Posted December 12, 2015 Share Posted December 12, 2015 I don't think there are any 4mm PO wagons available RTR or as kits for the early 1900s You could try these? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeharvey22 Posted December 12, 2015 Share Posted December 12, 2015 ] Just ordered a pair of the 'F. Warren & Co., London' wagons and found that the livery is pre-1908. Not sure of the period of the 'John Facer & Co.' wagons yet though. Such as shame they didn't go for the earlier RCH mineral wagons as I'll now have to think about a new chassis for them. Email received from Oxford Rail confirming that these are going out to retailers early in the coming week. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BG John Posted December 12, 2015 Share Posted December 12, 2015 You could try these? That's better. It shows how much I've lost touch with what's available! But they still need knocking about, as 1907 is two years into the future, and I don't imagine most traders in 1905 had wagons to the latest designs that would be similar to the 1907 standards, although they work out a bit cheaper. I'll give up on the idea of Oxford wagons anyway! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poggy1165 Posted December 12, 2015 Share Posted December 12, 2015 The Shirebrook seems to have an odd number and livery compared with pre-1900 wagons. According to Turton, PO Wagons no 12 the last 10 ton wagon was numbered 1609 and the number was underneath the left-hand side of Shirebrook. It seems the last supplied wagons went up to number 1664 and were 12 tonners. There was a certain date (I can't off hand recall when but it was pre-group) when the RCH required wagons to be numbered to the left. Sometimes you see wagons with a central and a left hand number, this ruling is why. Therefore a wagon with (only) a central number should be early. To me this looks like a 1923 standard wagon. Plus it has the little clips holding down the capping that I believe were not added until the late grouping era. I should like to see the prototype photo on which this model is based. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwealleans Posted December 12, 2015 Share Posted December 12, 2015 I thought the capping strip clips were postwar. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wheatley Posted December 12, 2015 Share Posted December 12, 2015 I think we established quite earlier on that Oxford had scanned one wagon with post-war (and indeed post-preservation) modifications and that it would be surprising if there was any variation from this as the base model. To 99% of Oxford's customers it looks like a coal wagon. Indeed AdrianBS went to quite some trouble to list the various compromises in the model but was roundly shouted down by both members and site management. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rail-Online Posted December 13, 2015 Share Posted December 13, 2015 I asked how the wagons 'came apart' but no-one responded so I bought one and quickly pulled it apart. The buffers 'lock' the chassis in place and have metal heads but fit in a rectangular hole in the solebars, therefore drilling them out for sprung heads will be 'a challenge'. The brake levers are seperate from their guides which are correctly slotted -a first for RTR. For those considering converting to P4 the solebars are 3.1mm deep beyond the floor so fitting rocking etched brass W irons should be possible (I will let you know). The solebars are thinner than the Bachmann ones so the etched W irons fit easily with no hacking away. Here's the basic assemblies.The plastic W irons are very thick. Tony Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BG John Posted December 13, 2015 Share Posted December 13, 2015 That makes it even more frustrating that the bodies are so modern. It looks like an easy job to add new W-irons and axleboxes, and what's left looks like a useful chassis for building O-16.5 wagons on. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
iak Posted December 13, 2015 Share Posted December 13, 2015 I asked how the wagons 'came apart' but no-one responded so I bought one and quickly pulled it apart. The buffers 'lock' the chassis in place and have metal heads but fit in a rectangular hole in the solebars, therefore drilling them out for sprung heads will be 'a challenge'. The brake levers are seperate from their guides which are correctly slotted -a first for RTR. For those considering converting to P4 the solebars are 3.1mm deep beyond the floor so fitting rocking etched brass W irons should be possible (I will let you know). The solebars are thinner than the Bachmann ones so the etched W irons fit easily with no hacking away. Here's the basic assemblies.The plastic W irons are very thick. Tony Might be interesting to try the Craig Welsh etched/sprung subframes available frae the S4 Society? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rail-Online Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 And here is the wagon converted to P4. If you fit the MJT W Irons as folded up the wagon sits about 0.5mm too high (ie the buffers are at 14.5mm from rail level). It is easy to reduce this with a litle filing. There are 'pads' moulded on the solebar bottoms where the Oxford Rail spring hangers sit - these need removing and then there is sufficient 'rock' in the MJT rocking W Iron. The brake gear really is lovely and the best RTR available by far. With the wheelbase set as 9ft the clearence of the brake blocks is minimal but sufficient. All I have done on the body is remove the top strapping cleats and some of the post 1934 insignia. The painting is very 'thin' on this early issue from Oxford Rail but later ones are better, however the prototype is the only one so far that emptied to Toton and loaded at the Derbyshire collieries. Overall a quick and easy conversion. Tony Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rail-Online Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 Whilst browsing the Model Railway Express website and looking at the "Seen at Warley 2015" section, I came across the two new wagons that are meant to come out this month and alongside them another two wagons... Correct me if I'm wrong, I don't recall John Facer & CO and Shirebrook being announced... I have worries about this Shirebrook wagon, the Empty to instructions should be on the bottom plank and the main title much higher. Looks like someone has got hold of a POWsides set of transfers and not applied them properly to me! The John Facer is an early livery and I can find no ref to it. But again nearly all names were painted so the top of the owners name finished at the top of the second plank down. It is easier for Oxford Rail to print like this but non-prototypical. Again lets hope this is not the one produced. Tony Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BG John Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 And here is the wagon converted to P4. If you fit the MJT W Irons as folded up the wagon sits about 0.5mm too high (ie the buffers are at 14.5mm from rail level). It is easy to reduce this with a litle filing. There are 'pads' moulded on the solebar bottoms where the Oxford Rail spring hangers sit - these need removing and then there is sufficient 'rock' in the MJT rocking W Iron. The brake gear really is lovely and the best RTR available by far. With the wheelbase set as 9ft the clearence of the brake blocks is minimal but sufficient. All I have done on the body is remove the top strapping cleats and some of the post 1934 insignia. The painting is very 'thin' on this early issue from Oxford Rail but later ones are better, however the prototype is the only one so far that emptied to Toton and loaded at the Derbyshire collieries. Overall a quick and easy conversion. Tony I've got a stock of EM Gauge Society W-irons, that are just a flat piece of brass with two folds, and none of the reinforcement the MJT ones have. So they should fit easily. I'm tempted to buy one now, just to try it! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmrspaul Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 And here is the wagon converted to P4. If you fit the MJT W Irons as folded up the wagon sits about 0.5mm too high (ie the buffers are at 14.5mm from rail level). It is easy to reduce this with a litle filing. There are 'pads' moulded on the solebar bottoms where the Oxford Rail spring hangers sit - these need removing and then there is sufficient 'rock' in the MJT rocking W Iron. The brake gear really is lovely and the best RTR available by far. With the wheelbase set as 9ft the clearence of the brake blocks is minimal but sufficient. All I have done on the body is remove the top strapping cleats and some of the post 1934 insignia. The painting is very 'thin' on this early issue from Oxford Rail but later ones are better, however the prototype is the only one so far that emptied to Toton and loaded at the Derbyshire collieries. Overall a quick and easy conversion. Tony But it still doesn't have the top door that the original had! Nor the end door hung from a bar across the top of the door. Paul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.