Loconuts Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 From my research I have found there is no evidence that 5 of the proposed liveries that Oxford Rail are applying to the PO wagon were ever carried on the 1928 RCH version but were applied to the earlier version. It is such a shame as Oxford Rail is on the doorstep of the Cardiff Maritime and Industrial Museum where the Gloucester Wagon archives are kept. A quick trip down there by someone from Oxford Rail would have avoided all this controversy over this wagon. Loconuts Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Brasher Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 Which is the correct one? Oxfordrail is not the only company that is not applying sufficient attention to detail on private owner wagons but people are still buying them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dunsignalling Posted February 3, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 3, 2015 Which is the correct one? Oxfordrail is not the only company that is not applying sufficient attention to detail on private owner wagons but people are still buying them. True and, even ignoring the fictitious liveries on some (I'm still half expecting an Eddie Stobart one!), a lot are a darned sight worse than what Oxford appear to have in the pipeline. However, they are effectively duplicating existing models (albeit in different liveries) so Oxford do need to improve on the current best r-t-r portrayal of these wagons (Bachmann). Personally, I agree with earlier posters who have suggested that models of the 1907-specification wagons would be a better choice. John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loconuts Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 Which is the correct one? Oxfordrail is not the only company that is not applying sufficient attention to detail on private owner wagons but people are still buying them. I did not say the sixth livery was correct, it is that I have not found any detail of it on the 1928 RCH wagon so I cannot say that it is correct. The livery is the 'Weymouth' one. Found details of one Weymouth wagon but it was a different number and the livery was applied to a earlier wagon. These wagons will sell well except to a certain sector of the model market, but with a bit extra research into the subject Oxford Rail could also be selling to that market. PO wagons are a tricky subject and one can easily get tripped up as I have been on a few occasions in the past. Loconuts Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
billbedford Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 Personally, I agree with earlier posters who have suggested that models of the 1907-specification wagons would be a better choice. Are there any extant 1907-spec wagon that are in a fit state to e scanned? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium petethemole Posted February 3, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 3, 2015 Drawings are available, from more than one wagon builder. I assume the art of making masters from drawings has not been lost....yet? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffalo Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 Are there any extant 1907-spec wagon that are in a fit state to e scanned? Maybe not, but why on earth would you need to scan one? It would take far longer to convert a point cloud to a CAD model than it would to draw it from scratch using available drawings and photos. After all, they are almost entirely straight lines and scanning only comes into its own when dealing with complex curves. Nick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 Drawings are available, from more than one wagon builder. I assume the art of making masters from drawings has not been lost....yet? I doubt that it has been, however, neither has the 'art' of mis-interpreting drawings. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
billbedford Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 Maybe not, but why on earth would you need to scan one? It would take far longer to convert a point cloud to a CAD model than it would to draw it from scratch using available drawings and photos. After all, they are almost entirely straight lines and scanning only comes into its own when dealing with complex curves. Well, the current model must have been scanned, or at least copied from a full size example, else how do we account for the extra corner strapping? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffalo Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 I'd suggest it was just copied. Didn't someone say earlier that there was an example somewhere with these extra straps? Nick ps I was amused by this comment on the earlier upate about the Adams radial I carry CAD on me at all time as we are always updating. If you want more I can publish, but I'm not sure if it achieves much... Rather arrogant, methinks... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium PhilJ W Posted February 3, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 3, 2015 Drawings are available, from more than one wagon builder. I assume the art of making masters from drawings has not been lost....yet? The MD of Oxford diecast is a skilled pattern maker so should be more than capable. Well, the current model must have been scanned, or at least copied from a full size example, else how do we account for the extra corner strapping? Photographs? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
billbedford Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 If it was drawn from photographs, then they only had them from one wagon. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffalo Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 The MD of Oxford diecast is a skilled pattern maker so should be more than capable.Indeed, and they have both the facilities to produce good models and a track record in other areas. What they have yet to demonstrate is a broad prototype knowledge and the necessary research capabilities in the railway context to make the best use of their advantages. Comments in this topic would suggest they have some way to go. Nick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted February 3, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 3, 2015 Indeed, and they have both the facilities to produce good models and a track record in other areas. What they have yet to demonstrate is a broad prototype knowledge and the necessary research capabilities in the railway context to make the best use of their advantages. Comments in this topic would suggest they have some way to go. Nick That, I think, is probably the most significant comment yet regarding these wagons. Obviously every manufacturuer, or indeed any manufacturer, cannot employ somebody who is an expert on anything but there seem to be plenty of 'willing helpers' around who are happy to assist where their expertise, knowledge, or contacts can be of use in helping to move things along and get them right (in so far as mass manufacture allows). I realise that most of these 'willing helpers' probably emerge through personal contacts or are otherwise known to those who make use of them and that is only to be expected as one can hardly expect XYZ Models to advertise for someone who knows every detail about, say, GWR 2721 tank engines. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Taz Posted February 3, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 3, 2015 ....... Obviously every manufacturuer, or indeed any manufacturer, cannot employ somebody who is an expert on anything ..... I'd hope they would be an expert on something Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidH Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 I'd hope they would be an expert on something Experience of the internet suggests to me that the last thing we want are 'experts', we actually want generalists who know how to do research and where to go for advice :-) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeharvey22 Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 ps I was amused by this comment on the earlier upate about the Adams radial Rather arrogant, methinks... Has anyone asked Taff directly to show more CAD, I wonder? In my experience having met the man several times and discussed die-cast designs with him, I would say that arrogance is certainly not one of his characteristics. When the factory fitted a left hand drive dash panel to a right hand drive fire engine he was mortified and very apologetic. When there was a livery error on a Midland Red bus it was reissued almost immediately with a corrected livery. Taff is probably not the one reading the comments here, but there is certainly is one of his team keeping an eye on it. Time will tell whether the final designs they land on for the wagons and the Radial meets the market need or not. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PenrithBeacon Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 I think it's very unrealistic to expect a mass produced model to exactly depict a prototype like the coal wagon. Many variations were possible within the RCH specs and so wagons varied from builder to builder although the 1923 spec does seem to have tightened up a lot. Having said that, some of the comments made above do give me pause and I doubt if I would buy any of these models. Regards Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talltim Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 I think its reasonable to expect to depict at least one of the variations and also be period correct for the majority of liveries its going to be produced in. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loconuts Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 Has anyone asked Taff directly to show more CAD, I wonder? In my experience having met the man several times and discussed die-cast designs with him, I would say that arrogance is certainly not one of his characteristics. When the factory fitted a left hand drive dash panel to a right hand drive fire engine he was mortified and very apologetic. When there was a livery error on a Midland Red bus it was reissued almost immediately with a corrected livery. Taff is probably not the one reading the comments here, but there is certainly is one of his team keeping an eye on it. Time will tell whether the final designs they land on for the wagons and the Radial meets the market need or not. I don't think anyone from Oxford Rail are reading this site or any other site. I know of one modeler who has dropped an e-mail direct to the company and has not even received an acknowledgement. This is the typical attitude of the manufacturers, not just Oxford Rail. Take no care in what they produce, stick it on the market at a cheap price and we the modelers will purchase it. Gentlemen I think we are the cause of this state of affairs where all we have seemed to worry about in the past is not how correct the model is but how cheap it is. The Dapol 6-wheeled milk tank is a good example, it is a freelance model and modelers are still buying it because of the price. Things are a changing as we start to see the the Chinese price rises filter down the pipeline to us the consumer, already comments have been made elsewhere on this site so I am not going into detail here. But this wagon with all it inaccuracies will sell like hot cakes because of the fancy liveries and low price. Loconuts Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
micklner Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 more pictures http://www.mremag.com/news/bulletin.asp Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium PhilJ W Posted February 4, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 4, 2015 I'd rather spend time playing with trains operating my layout than counting rivets, if it looks right it is right. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidH Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 I don't think anyone from Oxford Rail are reading this site or any other site. I know of one modeler who has dropped an e-mail direct to the company and has not even received an acknowledgement. One of my work contacts has been sending emails to me since early December, keeping me up to date about an upcoming project. Not one arrived in my inbox. I found out about this on Monday. One email not replied to does not prove anything - ever. Technology is not infallable. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffalo Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 more pictures Clearly some progress as they've fixed the bottom doors but not the strapping. One comment in Phil Parker's text is confusing, though: There is also a mysterious extra makers mark on the side as well as the solebar which will be fixed. Yes, it looks like a maker's plate but two or three plates for maker, owner and hire fleet are commonplace on Gloucester RC&W hired wagons with at least one on the body. They all look broadly similar but have different wording. I don't have a photo of this particular livery in my limited collection of PO wagon books, so it's not clear exactly what will be fixed. Nick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeharvey22 Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 I don't think anyone from Oxford Rail are reading this site or any other site. I know of one modeler who has dropped an e-mail direct to the company and has not even received an acknowledgement. This is the typical attitude of the manufacturers, not just Oxford Rail. Take no care in what they produce, stick it on the market at a cheap price and we the modelers will purchase it. Loconuts Easy to have missed post #874 here:- http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/91184-oxfordrail-adams-radial/page-35 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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