Oxfordrail Wagons

[Robin Brasher]

I think you will find that many of the private owner wagons produced by Hornby and Wessex Wagons are not very accurate representations of the prototype. The reviews in the model railway press tend not to go into so much detail as they do over locomotives and coaches so the assume they are accurate models.

 

They are fairly cheap so they are the sort of thing people buy on the spur of the moment and are not considered purchases like locomotives and coaches.

 

For the majority of people the Oxfordrail wagons will sell whether they are accurate or not. My view is that it is just as easy to produce an authentic model as an inaccurate one so why not make an accurate model in the first place,

[Combe Martin]

Re the last paragraph in post 126 above, the difference is the amount of time and effort spent on research & development. A more accurate model needs more R&D. But this comes at a greater cost. The actual manufacturing costs can be the same unless greater accuracy means more difficult assembly.

[Neal Ball]

I have had an email from Oxford and the production models will be adjusted... (no details).

 

Due in the shops Quarter 2 2015

[melmerby]

One of the problems with producing anything from old descriptions/photos is whether people understand the terminology being used.

 

For instance, I remember when Bachmann produced a PO wagon in a Red Lead colour scheme because in the manufacturer's photo the board next to the wagon in question said "Lead" finish.

They meant lead grey not red lead, however if anybody had asked me about lead paint I would also have assumed red lead. That's the only lead paint I knew!

 

I actually think that this wagon will be OK for the price (If it is kept to) however I still think it's a pity it couldn't have been more accurate.

3 links? You can always add them yourself if a coupling hook is present - they are no good with a tension lock anyway.

 

Keith

[Craigw]

Re the last paragraph in post 126 above, the difference is the amount of time and effort spent on research & development. A more accurate model needs more R&D. But this comes at a greater cost. The actual manufacturing costs can be the same unless greater accuracy means more difficult assembly.

 

A simple perusal of some of the Private owner wagon series by Keith Turton would have shown that the wagon they have modelled is decidedly atypical - total cost 19.95 or thereabouts. As a P4 modeller, I usually build kits for PO wagons as they suit my time frame better. That being said, if they had chosen to do a 1907 pattern RCH I would probably have been tempted to grab some to convert. The 1923 will stay on the shelves though.

 

Craig W

[Robin Brasher]

I would prefer Oxfordrail to produce some railway company owned wagons like this one at Corfe Castle Station to go with its LSWR Adams Radial rather than Private Owner wagons. Oxfordrail could measure and photograph the prototype so the company would be able to build an accurate replica.

[buffalo]

...could measure and photograph the prototype so the company would be able to build an accurate replica.

 

With or without the electrical connector?

 

Nick

[Phil Parker]

I would prefer Oxfordrail to produce some railway company owned wagons like this one at Corfe Castle Station to go with its LSWR Adams Radial rather than Private Owner wagons. Oxfordrail could measure and photograph the prototype so the company would be able to build an accurate replica.

 

Why does anyone assume it has to be one or the other? Oxfordrail have always said that the wagon is just the start of a comprehensive range. Appart from the Radial, we don't have any idea what the rest of the range will consist of.

 

A PO wagon is a good bread'n'butter model that can be churned out in loads of pretty liveries and generate some cash-flow to cover less well selling products. Looking at the van (for which kits are available and it's an easy scratch build), which will sell more, this or a PO wagon?

[Ozexpatriate]

I would prefer Oxfordrail to produce some railway company owned wagons like this one at Corfe Castle Station to go with its LSWR Adams Radial rather than Private Owner wagons. 

That's a great suggestion - perhaps they shall one day.

 

Phil's point is good - based on Oxford Rail's communicated plans, it's not an either / or proposition.

With or without the electrical connector?

Let's hope without!

[Steamport Southport]

I don't think Cambrian will be happy if they produce the LSWR van as they are apparently working on a new kit for one according to their website.

 

 

Jason.

[Adams442T]

From post no 128 above it looks as if Oxford rail will be making some corrections, whether enough to quell the disappointment we will have to wait and see.

 

But at least, like DJM, they respond to queries and long may that continue.  I had a very quick response to my queries on the Adams Radial concerning the provision of single and double slidebars (see my post 873 on the Radial thread).

 

I must admit I had also hoped that the 1907 RCH patterns would have been followed as it would save me so much time on 'retro-ing' my P.O. wagon stock!

[autocoach]

I don't think Cambrian will be happy if they produce the LSWR van as they are apparently working on a new kit for one according to their website.

 

 

Jason.

It would be nice if Cambrian got on with the LSWR Van and Brake van.  Too much fussing with this "modern" stuff.  After all the real British Railways era ended on January 1, 1948.

[prtrainman]

March BRM includes a photo of a pre-production sample of the 7-plank PO wagon that will be available in 6 PO liveries at £8.95 each. Regardless of any inacurracies it looks to be a pretty good model for the price. The Hattons ad shows the liveries available but I wonder whether a 1950's grey 'P' numbered version, or even an unpainted version would have more of a market than the ones initially chosen.

[PhilJ W]

March BRM includes a photo of a pre-production sample of the 7-plank PO wagon that will be available in 6 PO liveries at £8.95 each. Regardless of any inacurracies it looks to be a pretty good model for the price. The Hattons ad shows the liveries available but I wonder whether a 1950's grey 'P' numbered version, or even an unpainted version would have more of a market than the ones initially chosen.

They do unlettered versions of some of their road vehicles so who knows?

[Phil Parker]

March BRM includes a photo of a pre-production sample of the 7-plank PO wagon that will be available in 6 PO liveries at £8.95 each. Regardless of any inacurracies it looks to be a pretty good model for the price. The Hattons ad shows the liveries available but I wonder whether a 1950's grey 'P' numbered version, or even an unpainted version would have more of a market than the ones initially chosen.

 

We had even more photos on MREmag: http://www.mremag.com/news/article/new-oxford-rail-wagon-photos/20593 :-)

 

For the price, even "unpainted" versions don't appear straight away, a can of Halfords grey primer will do the job and you're not taking much of a risk.

 

As for selling more - maybe to MODELLERS, but the real market is COLLECTORS who will buy all the liveries no matter what. As a bread'n'butter item in the rnage, that's what you need.

[Mark Saunders]

From what I have seen of Oxord Diecast, I would expect that there will be small runs of liveries and if there is a rerun then it will be a renumbering to appeal to the Collectors rather like the a, b, c suffixes on Bachmann wagons!

 

I hope that a comprehensive range of wagons is more than just the variations on the RCH 1923 spec 12t Mineral!

 

Mark Saunders

[prtrainman]

We had even more photos on MREmag: http://www.mremag.com/news/article/new-oxford-rail-wagon-photos/20593 :-)

 

For the price, even "unpainted" versions don't appear straight away, a can of Halfords grey primer will do the job and you're not taking much of a risk.

 

As for selling more - maybe to MODELLERS, but the real market is COLLECTORS who will buy all the liveries no matter what. As a bread'n'butter item in the rnage, that's what you need.

An interesting point but I wonder if there is any market research showing that the majority of wagon purchases are for putting in display cases rather than actually running them on layouts.

[PhilJ W]

My preferred era is Rail Blue/Sectorisation so I am merely a spectator in this debate but I could well consider some of these wagons just for display.

[petethemole]

A second-hand toy and model shop near me, now closed, bought in a collection of PO wagons, minerals and tanks, Dapol and Bachmann, including limited editions. They all appeared to be MIB (I bought some; clean wheels). I'm sure collectors like that don't account for a majority of purchases but they are certainly a significant part of the market. The collection above was over 100 wagons and possibly worth £1500 new at today's prices.

 

I will probably buy the Weymouth Co-op wagon for my project. It will live with a pair of Dapol 17' 6" wagons for another Weymouth trader and a pair of kit 1907 wagons with POWsides transfers for the Co-op.

 

Pete

[Dunsignalling]

A second-hand toy and model shop near me, now closed, bought in a collection of PO wagons, minerals and tanks, Dapol and Bachmann, including limited editions. They all appeared to be MIB (I bought some; clean wheels). I'm sure collectors like that don't account for a majority of purchases but they are certainly a significant part of the market. The collection above was over 100 wagons and possibly worth £1500 new at today's prices.

 

I will probably buy the Weymouth Co-op wagon for my project. It will live with a pair of Dapol 17' 6" wagons for another Weymouth trader and a pair of kit 1907 wagons with POWsides transfers for the Co-op.

 

Pete

Anybody who is daft enough to part company with £15 a go for the sort of imaginary tat that forms half the output of so-called model PO open wagons deserves all they get.

 

Just about the only thing that's authentic about the 'stretched' ex-Airfix models produced by Dapol (and Hornby for that matter) is the number of wheels.

 

Compared to those wagons, the errors/anachronisms being pointed out on the Oxford sample pale into utter insignificance!

 

John

[Robin Brasher]

I am modelling the Swanage Railway. The only picture of a private owner wagon I have seen on the railway is a black and white photograph of a Hamworthy  Wharf wagon. I was very pleased when Wessex Wagons produced a model of it and they are limited to using Dapol models because Hornby and Bachmann will not produce small limited runs.

 

Until I met a friend who produced private owner wagon kits at Tunbridge Wells I was not aware that many of the ready to run models were incorrect. When reviewing private owner wagons the magazines do not usually compare the dimensions with the prototype like they do with locomotives and coaches so the majority of modellers are unaware of the difference.

 

I don't know how accurate the Oxford wagons are but until someone produces an accurate model people will buy the Oxford wagons and less accurate model wagons produced by Hornby, Wessex Wagons and other firms. The public who attend exhibitions never seem to notice whether wagons are dimensionally accurate.

[Mark Saunders]

The dimensions for wagons had me confused for years when I first entered the hobby in the mid 1970's!

 

How could an Airfix 16 ton kit steel mineral be smaller than an Airfix rtr 13t wooden mineral!

 

Later did I discover that all the manufacturers had been playing stretch or shrink the chassis to suit what was on the shelf!

 

Mark Saunders

[Oldddudders]

prtrainman, on 20 Feb 2015 - 10:45, said:

An interesting point but I wonder if there is any market research showing that the majority of wagon purchases are for putting in display cases rather than actually running them on layouts.

Some percentage seem to be squirelled away for a few years, then put on ebay at only twice the original price.

[Dunsignalling]

I am modelling the Swanage Railway. The only picture of a private owner wagon I have seen on the railway is a black and white photograph of a Hamworthy  Wharf wagon. I was very pleased when Wessex Wagons produced a model of it and they are limited to using Dapol models because Hornby and Bachmann will not produce small limited runs.

 

Until I met a friend who produced private owner wagon kits at Tunbridge Wells I was not aware that many of the ready to run models were incorrect. When reviewing private owner wagons the magazines do not usually compare the dimensions with the prototype like they do with locomotives and coaches so the majority of modellers are unaware of the difference.

 

I don't know how accurate the Oxford wagons are but until someone produces an accurate model people will buy the Oxford wagons and less accurate model wagons produced by Hornby, Wessex Wagons and other firms. The public who attend exhibitions never seem to notice whether wagons are dimensionally accurate.

Or know no better, or just don't care. The daft thing is that Dapol do make 9' wheelbase PO wagons with "wooden" underframes but they persist in using the ex-Airfix abomination (that isn't accurate for any prototypical wagon that ever existed) for most commissions.

 

It's not just the wagons themselves; a lot of the liveries are (at best) conjectural, and often extrapolated from lorries used by companies who never even owned rail wagons. 

 

"Private Owner" vans are a whole other, far wrigglier, can of worms wholly unfit for public discussion!

 

All right as a bit of fun (always supposing you know that's what it is), but they're not models of anything.

 

Rant over (for now......)

 

John

[Ozexpatriate]

All right as a bit of fun (always supposing you know that's what it is), but they're not models of anything.

John, I think that it is important that we, collectively, know what models maintain a fidelity to a prototype and what don't.

 

I think that a great benefit RMweb presents to less knowledgeable enthusiasts (like me) is that there are people here who do understand such things and can explain them dispassionately without making it feel like an exercise in pretentiousness, which can sometimes be a trap for unwary experts.

 

The question for most RtR consumers, unwilling or unskilled in kit building and decorating, is "what is the alternative?"

 

If someone likes a particular livery and chooses to make purchase with the full knowledge that the model is, let's say, 'representative' rather than a high-fidelity replica, then they've been able to make an informed choice. I think that is a good thing.