Hattons Model Railways of Widnes (formerly Liverpool).

[adb968008]

Perhaps loyal Hattons customers should stand behind Hattons and not move their business elsewhere and maybe try complaining to Bachmann over the hold up of their orders.

You could do, but it doesn’t work like that...

Models are made in batches, once they are gone, there gone.

Would you be ok seeing your wanted item sell out, whilst waiting someone else’s spat to be resolved ?

Edited December 9, 2018 by adb968008

[Ian Hargrave]

Perhaps loyal Hattons customers should stand behind Hattons and not move their business elsewhere and maybe try complaining to Bachmann over the hold up of their orders.

 

In a perfect world  .Not your battle to fight,sorry to say much as all are sympathetic to the noble cause  I have a flash vision of a Jarrow-like crusade of indignant RMWebbers holding up traffic om the A 447 on the approach to Barwell with banners flying.  Brexit ?  You ain't seen nothing yet

[Chamby]

Has anyone with a Hattons pre-order for Bachmann's new releases made enquiries over the 'phone yet?   It would help others to know the official response being given by their customer facing staff.

 

During last year's stock control issues at Hattons, I developed a respect for the frontline staff who were always honest with me... even though they were not perhaps able to share all the dirty washing in public.

[caradoc]

In a perfect world  .Not your battle to fight,sorry to say much as all are sympathetic to the noble cause  I have a flash vision of a Jarrow-like crusade of indignant RMWebbers holding up traffic om the A 447 on the approach to Barwell with banners flying.  Brexit ?  You ain't seen nothing yet

 

As long as the demonstration doesn't reach Parisian levels !

[Colin_McLeod]

Bring out the full yellow fronts, small yellow panels etc.

[Matabiau]

Has anyone with a Hattons pre-order for Bachmann's new releases made enquiries over the 'phone yet?   It would help others to know the official response being given by their customer facing staff.

 

During last year's stock control issues at Hattons, I developed a respect for the frontline staff who were always honest with me... even though they were not perhaps able to share all the dirty washing in public.

I did a couple of weeks ago following the release of the Southern H2. I rang a couple of times over a period of two weeks each time being told they should be arriving in the next few days. They didn’t needless to say so I cancelled my order. At no time was there any suggestion of a dispute between Hattons and Bachman’s but I didn’t push the matter as it was hardly the fault of the person on the telephone.

 

This is hardly doing Hattons’ or Bachmann’s image any good by keeping the customer in the dark. I just hope it is resolved soon and everyone will forget about it and move on.

[JSpencer]

You could do, but it doesn’t work like that...

Models are made in batches, once they are gone, there gone.

Would you be ok seeing your wanted item sell out, whilst waiting someone else’s spat to be resolved ?

If it is a spat, the effects could be longer term than that. People might avoid placing orders for Bachmann items at Hattons period. It would take a while for such confidence to return.

 

To be honest, if the market is heading for spats between various parties involved in supplying this hobby, I,ll be off out of it.

The hobby is supposed to be a leisure. I do not like this feeling of being a bargain counter in someone else's spat.

[Andy Y]

I also think RMweb could have performed a responsible press role and clarified the situation. I wouldn't have expected full business details, but at least an assessment of the point of dispute.

 

 

I have given as much information as I feel it is appropriate to do so (and more than you will find anywhere else), even if I told you everything I think I know it wouldn't actually be of any use to you or anyone else - an assessment would only be an opinion and that's of even less use.

[steve1023]

Has anyone with a Hattons pre-order for Bachmann's new releases made enquiries over the 'phone yet?   It would help others to know the official response being given by their customer facing staff.

 

During last year's stock control issues at Hattons, I developed a respect for the frontline staff who were always honest with me... even though they were not perhaps able to share all the dirty washing in public.

I used the website chat facility thinking I would be talking 'live' with somebody, after 20 minutes of waiting a response the facility cut out without response to my question, so I ordered what I wanted elsewhere, the item duly arrived less than 48 hours later. A further 24 hours after said item arrived I got a response to my question through my e-mail, alas too late.

[Andy Hayter]

Despite cries to the contrary, it is not important that we know the rreasons for the supply issues.

 

it is (IMHO) important the Hattons face up to their customers and tell them realistically if (and perhaps when) they can expect their orders to be fulfilled.  

 

I do not like cancelling orders placed in good faith, but in return I do expect a supplier to keep me appraised with the delivery of that order.

[Stevelewis]

Just  as  an aside to all this  I do note  that  Hattons  Pre   Owned  stock  does  seem to be  rather  on  the  high  side, .

[KDG]

Has anyone with a Hattons pre-order for Bachmann's new releases made enquiries over the 'phone yet?   It would help others to know the official response being given by their customer facing staff.

 

During last year's stock control issues at Hattons, I developed a respect for the frontline staff who were always honest with me... even though they were not perhaps able to share all the dirty washing in public.

Yes

 

Via their live chat facility as I said a few pages back. The answer I got was that they did not know when they would be getting a delivery from Bachmann, and when pressed further they said they had not been given a hint of a date.

[Steamport Southport]

Just  as  an aside to all this  I do note  that  Hattons  Pre   Owned  stock  does  seem to be  rather  on  the  high  side, .

 

Hattons always was a bit steep when it came to second hand stuff. People pay it though.

 

How many places can you buy second hand items where the retailer will give refunds if there is something wrong?* Not many.

 

 

*Within reason

 

 

 

Jason

[Stevelewis]

Hattons always was a bit steep when it came to second hand stuff. People pay it though.

 

How many places can you buy second hand items where the retailer will give refunds if there is something wrong?* Not many.

 

 

*Within reason

 

 

 

Jason

 

My  mention  of  pre  used  has  nothing  to  do  with  the  actual preused  category  itself  ( I have  used  it  several  times  with an  approx. 25% dissatisfaction  rate which  was  perfectly well sorted out  to my satisfaction )  My point is  they  have  a  lot  of   it  for  example  over  250  pre  used 00 Steam  locos  across  Hornby & Bachmann,  many other categories show  high levels of  S/H  stock  take a  look at  Bemo & Roco as an example.

There is a lot of capital  obviously  tied  up  waiting  for  the  items  to eventually  sell, 

 

I have  no problems  with  Hattons  having been a  customer  since  the  60s  and  do order  frequently  but  never  pre  order  just  buy  as  and  when  they  show stock  is  available,  in  fact  they  had  another   order  from  me  just  last week

[Ed-farms]

Hattons always was a bit steep when it came to second hand stuff.

 

Are you sure they always are. In the last few months I have bought 2 Farish Dutch seacows for £22 each and a Dapol/N Gauge Society Collett Full Brake for £23 - The seacows can fetch up to £40-50 and the Collett £40 easily, so I got these for about 50%

[newbryford]

Are you sure they always are. In the last few months I have bought 2 Farish Dutch seacows for £22 each and a Dapol/N Gauge Society Collett Full Brake for £23 - The seacows can fetch up to £40-50 and the Collett £40 easily, so I got these for about 50%

 

The cheap/well-priced stuff goes quickly....

[Chamby]

Despite cries to the contrary, it is not important that we know the rreasons for the supply issues.

 

it is (IMHO) important the Hattons face up to their customers and tell them realistically if (and perhaps when) they can expect their orders to be fulfilled.  

 

I do not like cancelling orders placed in good faith, but in return I do expect a supplier to keep me appraised with the delivery of that order.

Agreed, we don’t need to know the reasons, but the consequences for customers are rightly our concern. It is typical in this situation that the customer message is managed on a short term basis, the word “soon” is frequently used. This may be based on hope rather than reality, but it serves to get the business through to the next day.

 

The reality may be rather different however, particularly if the impasse is over deeply held principles, a loss of confidence in the other party, or an activity that one of the parties has heavily committed to (financially and/or resources) that the other has issue with. Some things are not so simple to resolve!

 

I don’t think we need to worry though, as Bachmann customers, about whether we can still get our goods: the question for those who prefer to buy through Hattons is more about whether to wait, or shop elsewhere. Hattons have helpfully publicised their last dispatch days leading up to Christmas, which will help their customers to make their own informed decision. It might be inconvenient, but it’s not an insurmountable problem!

[Legend]

I feel sorry for Hattons . There is an inference they are the bad guys here .Maybe they are or aren’t, I really don’t know . However I would have thought if you placed an order with Hattons and then they place an order with Bachmann then really Bachmann should fulfill these orders . Ok if there is a dispute refuse to accept any new orders , but surely not fulfilling existing orders is bad form, and inconveniencing the end user. I’m assuming it’s not for monetary reasons and there is no financial risk, but more related to T&Cs . OK of course you can cancel order with Hattons and go elsewhere, but with some models in short supply , that’s not always possible. Is it fair to Hattons simply to cancel? From the posts above business seems to be moving.

 

Hattons have produced some fine models and seem to appreciate the need to supply them at reasonable costs . So I absolutely respect their business model and want it to succeed. No idea what’s caused this, whether it’s the direct competition with the 66 a reaction to “Sale of the Century” or Hattons generally discounting of Bachmanns product.

 

Hope it gets resolved , for Hattons and Model Railways in general

[woodenhead]

it will all come down to:

1. Can both parties resolve whatever their impasse is
2. Have Bachmann set aside everything that Hattons ordered prior to the impasse
3. Will customers wait long enough or go elsewhere
4. Will Bachmann hold onto said set aside stock (if it exists) if the impasse isn't resolved shortly and other retailers want to order more stock.

Personally if I had a pre-order but could see the same stock at the same price elsewhere i would move my order because waiting around might not result in a happy ending.

[woodenhead]

I feel sorry for Hattons . There is an inference they are the bad guys here .Maybe they are or aren’t, I really don’t know . However I would have thought if you placed an order with Hattons and then they place an order with Bachmann then really Bachmann should fulfill these orders . Ok if there is a dispute refuse to accept any new orders , but surely not fulfilling existing orders is bad form, and inconveniencing the end user. I’m assuming it’s not for monetary reasons and there is no financial risk, but more related to T&Cs . OK of course you can cancel order with Hattons and go elsewhere, but with some models in short supply , that’s not always possible. Is it fair to Hattons simply to cancel? From the posts above business seems to be moving.

 

Hattons have produced some fine models and seem to appreciate the need to supply them at reasonable costs . So I absolutely respect their business model and want it to succeed. No idea what’s caused this, whether it’s the direct competition with the 66 a reaction to “Sale of the Century” or Hattons generally discounting of Bachmanns product.

 

Hope it gets resolved , for Hattons and Model Railways in general

It is difficult to know who is the villain and who is the hero, that is simply because none of us are in receipt of the facts.

 

One thing we can see is that there has been market disruption, Hattons products are now all over the place with other retailers and said retailers are also benefiting from extra orders for Bachmann stock as a result of the non delivery to Hattons.  However, Hattons Sale of the Century may be taking out some money from these retailer with prices they cannot match, so maybe the benefits offset the losses albeit on a limited range of products that weren't or are no longer big sellers. 

 

Hattons are also now selling the slower moving Kernow commissions in addition to the Olivia's items plus the Gaugemaster limited edition Terrier locos and sets from Dapol in O.  This is clearly beneficial to those retailers with Hattons taking on some of their stock as well as them being able to purchase wholesaled Hattons products.

 

Overheard one retailer extolling the quality and price points of the Hattons products on Saturday so it would seem that retailers are pleased with an expanded range of products and manufacturers.

 

Bachmann are probably not losing out because their stock will still sell through other retailers, it's difficult to gauge whether this is hurting Hattons.

[srihaggis]

Personally if I had a pre-order but could see the same stock at the same price elsewhere i would move my order because waiting around might not result in a happy ending.

 

I ordered an Arriva DVT from a local model shop whom I always generally pre-order from (This was during Hornby's supply farce), said DVT started appearing online at some retailers but quickly disappeared, my retailer kept saying still waiting for delivery, and as soon as the box shifters started to show no stock, I quicky looked on eBay and there was 1 shop on there (Chester model centre) selling them at retail, so I grabbed one. Eventually my original retailer rang me about a month later to say they won't be getting any, so based on this experience, if it's available somewhere else, buy it or risk loosing it.

[Steamport Southport]

Are you sure they always are. In the last few months I have bought 2 Farish Dutch seacows for £22 each and a Dapol/N Gauge Society Collett Full Brake for £23 - The seacows can fetch up to £40-50 and the Collett £40 easily, so I got these for about 50%

 

Yes. I remember in the 1980s when they had loads of dirt cheap second hand Triang and Hornby-Dublo that they couldn't give away. But all the Lima and Mainline was at prices close to the new models. A bit similar to now.

 

There are bargains though. But as Newbryford says, they go quickly.

 

 

 

Jason

[woodenhead]

I always check the new arrivals page first thing every morning.

[Steamysandy]

I'm not at present in the market for British Trains and that's unlikely to change very much so the problems between Bachmann and Hattons don't bother me.But over the last Eighteen months I have picked up a selection of Secondhand Kato trains in what I would term the prestigious end of things.

On Friday morning I ordered an eight coach add on set for a Shinkansen Bullet train and by about 2 pm I'd had a message saying it was on its way

The Postman was at the door with it at 8-30 am this morning!

[Chamby]

It is difficult to know who is the villain and who is the hero, that is simply because none of us are in receipt of the facts.

 

One thing we can see is that there has been market disruption, Hattons products are now all over the place with other retailers and said retailers are also benefiting from extra orders for Bachmann stock as a result of the non delivery to Hattons.  However, Hattons Sale of the Century may be taking out some money from these retailer with prices they cannot match, so maybe the benefits offset the losses albeit on a limited range of products that weren't or are no longer big sellers. 

 

Hattons are also now selling the slower moving Kernow commissions in addition to the Olivia's items plus the Gaugemaster limited edition Terrier locos and sets from Dapol in O.  This is clearly beneficial to those retailers with Hattons taking on some of their stock as well as them being able to purchase wholesaled Hattons products.

 

Overheard one retailer extolling the quality and price points of the Hattons products on Saturday so it would seem that retailers are pleased with an expanded range of products and manufacturers.

 

Bachmann are probably not losing out because their stock will still sell through other retailers, it's difficult to gauge whether this is hurting Hattons.

There is no villain and no hero here, it is simply market forces playing out. Hattons have had an aggressive strategy over the years to become the nations largest retailer of model railways, thanks to the internet, opportunism and hard graft. They have taken market share from nearly every other retailer in the land. It might seem unfair on the small retailer, but Hattons did nothing wrong, on the contrary. Similar things are happening right now along the high street.

 

Now it looks like another player in the business that feels they are impacted by Hattons’ continuously expanding ambition is not being as passive about it as those retailers were. Bachmann have clauses written into their trading terms and conditions for a very good reason. Presumably Hattons signed up to these some time ago, maybe they have just out-grown them... maybe they are just testing them. You only find out where boundaries really are by pushing against them, until they push back. Dialogue ensues, it will be interesting to see where it leads.

 

This is all normal stuff in a dynamic market place. I’m interested, but not at all worried.