Why are preserved railways so unpopular as layout subjects

[PhilH]

What even as a camera?

 

Joking aside while obviously focusing on the primary responsibilities is of course vital, I have seen some excellent images taken by footplate crews during the course of their turn.  As with pretty much everything else in life its not the object per say that is an issue, its how and when it is deployed.

Well,now and then...I should point out that the photo of me on the footplate in my avatar was taken by my then employer's official photographer for an article in the house magazine.

[phil-b259]

Well,now and then...I should point out that the photo of me on the footplate in my avatar was taken by my then employer's official photographer for an article in the house magazine.

 

And a very nice 'action shot' it is too.

[Colin_McLeod]

In the summer of 2000 the preserved ex Londonderry Harbour Commissioners loco No 3 "R H Smitth" was hired to contractors Henry Boot who were relaying the Bleach Green - Antrim line for NIR. A locomotive was needed to pull ballast hoppers, and as IÉ and NIR were not in a position to loan a locomotive, the RPSI was approached. The locomotive pulled over fifty thousand tons of stone from 18th June until 25th November 2000. On the latter date she returned to Whitehead and resumed her shunting duties.

 

So steam was in genuine revenue earning service in the 21st Century.

Edited December 12, 2017 by Colin_McLeod

[Poggy1165]

There was, at one time, talk of using the East Lancashire Railway for commercial freight traffic to the Heywood Industrial Estate. I can only think this would have meant container traffic. I have heard nothing of this suggestion for a very long time, and I doubt whether it was ever really a serious - as opposed to pie-in-the-sky - possibility.

 

Another hardy annual is the possibility of a regular commuter service. This falls down on the 25 mph speed limit and the need to man several level crossings, to say nothing of the rather circuitous route to Manchester and, no doubt, the "lack of capacity" on the main line for any such trains. It simply isn't practical without destroying the heritage nature of the operation and putting in modern signalling and automatic barriers. Good Lord alone knows what that would cost, even if it was considered desirable.

 

However, at times of heavy snowfall, a commuter service does run, at least between Bury and Ramsbottom, when the roads are blocked, It's rare, but not unknown. They have also experimented with DMUs for shoppers around Christmas, but I've an idea it hasn't happened this year, so maybe it wasn't well patronised.

[JDW]

Funnily enough, although I've already said I'm not a fan, there's a layout in the current Railway Modeller 2018 Special based on an S&C location with adjoining preserved line, which actually looks quite good, works well in terms of pretence for why and how and looks quite plausible.

[BernardTPM]

A model of a preserved railway does not have to be set in the present. The preserved station could be in any era from the 60s on.

1951 if Narrow Gauge, 1960 for Standard Gauge. There were also some attempts to keep open some 'Beeching-ed' lines, such as the Sadler Vectrail project on the Isle of Wight.

[The Johnster]

Commercial services, such as freight and commuter trains, on preserved railways, raise problems concerning volunteer staff as well.  The operation of the railway is taken beyond the normal tourist or enthusiast traffic, and freight traffic especially invokes contractual obligations.  These in turn may require permanent non-volunteer staff, fully paid at an agreed rate, in order for the railway to commit to such obligations.  Similarly, a commuter service cancelled because of staffing issues will not last very long, as unlike the 'proper' railway if it suffers this problem, an 'amateur' preserved or heritage line will be criticised for not having a professional attitude and just 'playing trains'.

 

If I were volunteering on a heritage railway, which I have done at periods in my life, I would not be at ease with my freely offered and unpaid services being used to generate profit for the contract partner in such an arrangement; why should I give up my free time for the benefit of their shareholders?  This is a personal view of my own, but I suspect I am not alone in it!  Similarly, I would be equally ill at ease with volunteering on a commuter train to enable people to get to work and earn money for the profit of their employers; why should I give up my free time and effort for their benefit and profit rather than the railway's.

 

This is a matter for the personal attention of the volunteers, and a railway that signed a contract volunteering my free services for such a contractual arrangement without my prior consent would not retain my services as a volunteer for very long!

[Zomboid]

The details of that would be important though.

If the railway was making a profit from the arrangement (which you'd presumably be ok with), would it be a terrible thing for a third party to also make a profit?

Take the Swanage service last summer - I imagine the operators of that service (WCRC?) made money from it, based to a large extent on efforts of the railway, a lot of which would be volunteer labour. I would suggest that most of the volunteers there would still consider running trains to Wareham to have been "a good thing".

I see where you're coming from, but there's a bigger picture to consider.

[JDW]

Both fair points and to an extent I agree with The Johnster in that if the railway volunteered me to do a job for a commercial entity for their gain, I wouldn't be happy.  On the other hand, a railway needs income and if some can be generated whilst still allowing those who want to 'play trains' to do so, all the better.  But it would need to be something that all the volunteers were on board for - no point announcing a commuter service then expecting people to volunteer, but of volunteers get together and say 'we want to run a service that benefits our community' then good luck to them!  Some of the local dial-a-ride or community bus operators come to mind, who use retired professionals as drivers, who are happy to volunteer and give back by providing a service that couldn't exist commercially, and it gives them an ongoing sense of purpose too (better than daytime TV!).  The stone trains on the WSR come to mind too.

[The Johnster]

Self abuse with a barbed wire glove is better than daytime tv.

 

I think the point is that the volunteers need to be fully informed and consulted, and able to make their own individual informed decisions about the matter and how the profit generated is dispersed.  Of course, I will be happy if 'my' railway generates income for itself at the expense of road haulage or bus companies, but I am less sure that I want to donate my time, labour, and skill to the cause of another company's shareholders when there is no benefit returned to me.

[Colin_McLeod]

Buy some shares then you would be working for your own gain.

[ian@stenochs]

Self abuse with a barbed wire glove is better than daytime tv.

 

Fair makes your eyes water too!

[The Johnster]

Buy some shares then you would be working for your own gain.

 

Too capitalist for me, this working for your own gain business

 

This may not be entirely true...

[Colin_McLeod]

Working for your own gain is what every paid employee does.

[PatB]

Working for your own gain is what every paid employee does.

 

Well, it's what many believe .

[Colin_McLeod]

Well if you get paid then it is for your own gain. Your employer will gain too otherwise there would be no point in employing you.

[PhilH]

In my experience the average volunteer doesn't always possess, or indeed want, a clear, wide understanding of how their railway operates within the higher echelons of that railway as long as they are enjoying what they are doing there. By this I mean, for instance,I enjoy restoring steam locomotives and then driving those locomotives. As long as the railway keeps operating and gives me those opportunities I'm not too worried about other matters.

 

To put it another way...would I turn down the chance to steer a large express locomotive with six well filled coaches on up a few miles of 1 in 60 just because someone else is making a bit of profit out of that?

 

What do you think?

Edited December 16, 2017 by PhilH

[The Johnster]

Working for your own gain is what every paid employee does.

 

I always thought of it as getting a fair (!) price for the labour and time that I had sold in a free (!) market, of my own choice and volition.  Retiring is the best thing I ever did; I hated working for other people and didn't have the cojones to employ myself or boss others about.  Any of my old bosses will tell you that I am ideally suited to a life of complete idleness and it is highly probable that there was a mix up in the maternity ward when I was born and I went home with the working class people.

 

Once you are committed to a mortgage, it isn't gain, it's a treadmill.

[Colin_McLeod]

Progress

1-working for others

2-working for yourself

3-others working for you

4-your money working for you

5-other people's money working for you

 

[The Johnster]

Progress

1-working for others

2-working for yourself

3-others working for you

4-your money working for you

5-other people's money working for you

 

 

And I thought I was a cynic...

[rockershovel]

Re various comments above, this is hardly a new issue. John Winton’s “The Little Wonder” discusses exactly this subject, with reference to the railway’s structure of Company and Trust (of course the Festiniog is unusual, in that there was a pre-existing and still extant company which owned the assets).

 

If it was true in the 1950s, it’s certainly true now. I have a long-standing connection with vintage motorcycles and I’m in no doubt at all, that general dissatisfaction with, and rejection of the commercialism which pervades daily life is an important component of that movement.

[Reorte]

To put it another way...would I turn down the chance to steer a large express locomotive with six well filled coaches on up a few miles of 1 in 60 just because someone else is making a bit of profit out of that?

 

What do you think?

I think in that situation I'd be happy to do it but a bit less happy if it started looking like someone else was taking advantage of that. If the money was going to the railway I'd be OK with that, even if it meant having to pay a few people instead of relying on volunteers, if someone was just getting rich from it, rather less so. And of course the area between people getting paid and getting rich from it can get grey and blurry.

 

(not that I'm remotely qualified to drive any locomotive, so this assumes I could and enjoy it, for the sake of argument)

[The Johnster]

I don't think I'd be happy with trying to steer a railway locomotive anywhere...

 

I once drove an NCB Hunslet up the 1 in 15 at Talywaun, well for a few yards until I stalled it at least, which I suppose was for the benefit of the NCB and against my socialist principles, but, hey, I was young and foolish...

 

Come to that, I drove several locomotives for BR, some in revenue service pulling cash generating trains, but I was actually employed by BR at the time and at least under the nominal supervision of the driver in charge of the loco (who on one occasion was playing cards in the back cab while the guard, yours truly, drove a pair of 37s with 16 empty 100 ton oil tanks from Hereford to Cardiff on a very wet night, and I ran to speed and time!), but everyone was being paid the proper rate for their time, so that was ok, wasn't it!

[Colin_McLeod]

Not ok but I suppose it was a long time ago.

[PatB]

Well if you get paid then it is for your own gain. Your employer will gain too otherwise there would be no point in employing you.

 

Worrying levels of unpaid overtime across the English speaking world suggest that many employees idea of "their own gain" can be a little bit fuzzy.

Edited December 19, 2017 by PatB