Hornby Announce Peckett W4 0-4-0ST

[Ruston]

How religiously are you wedded to the W4?

 

I know its rank heresy bur early R1s were identical in appearance with only an inch in the cylinders difference - mixing medium but one third of a millimeter at 00 is hardly significant

I think the wheel diameter may be smaller on the R1. It appears so when comparing works photos - all of the wheel is easily visible on R1 but the top disappears behind the valance on W4.

 

Edit: I have checked and R1 wheel dia. is 3ft 0 1/2in. W4 is 3ft. 2 1/2in.

Edited December 10, 2017 by Ruston

[Porcy Mane]

I think the wheel diameter may be smaller on the R1. It appears so when comparing works photos - all of the wheel is easily visible on R1 but the top disappears behind the valance on W4.

 

Edit: I have checked and R1 wheel dia. is 3ft 0 1/2in. W4 is 3ft. 2 1/2in.

 

 

And having rejected tyres that were 0.76mm undersize for a P4 BR Class 05 because visually you could see they were smaller, a 0.83r mm difference would be even more noticeable on the Peckett.

 

Then there is the identical dome. Thats the dome that is equal in height to the top of the chimney on the Hornby model but lower on R1 916. A full three inches lower. That 1 mm will be quite noticeable on such a petite loco.

 

Then take a look at the valences and sand boxes on 916. Different? 

 

As you said it, the dumb buffers, that's those that it kept whilst waiting in the scrap line at "The Challies"  (The Shallows) right up until meeting it's maker in 1962. Even with R1's fitted with standard buffers there was variation in buffer plank appearance.

 

Probably better off with Hornby's suggestion of sticking to early W4's. If they brought out a superbly liveried W4 but the paint job was actually carried by an prototype R1, I can hear the outcry now. Hornby would be on a hiding to nothing.

 

P

Edited December 10, 2017 by Porcy Mane

[PenrithBeacon]

Work in inches, it’s easier...

 

12” is 1ft in real world sizes..

So:

 

12” = 4mm in OO

6” = 2mm in OO

3” = 1mm in OO

1.5” = 0.5mm in OO

 

IMHO Anything under 2mm /6” inch is largely irrelevant in OO.

There is the issue of proportionality Edited December 11, 2017 by PenrithBeacon

[Caledonian]

And having rejected tyres that were 0.76mm undersize for a P4 BR Class 05 because visually you could see they were smaller, a 0.83r mm difference would be even more noticeable on the Peckett.

 

Then there is the identical dome. Thats the dome that is equal in height to the top of the chimney on the Hornby model but lower on R1 916. A full three inches lower. That 1 mm will be quite noticeable on such a petite loco.

 

Then take a look at the valences and sand boxes on 916. Different? 

 

As you said it, the dumb buffers, that's those that it kept whilst waiting in the scrap line at "The Challies"  (The Shallows) right up until meeting it's maker in 1962. Even with R1's fitted with standard buffers there was variation in buffer plank appearance.

 

Probably better off with Hornby's suggestion of sticking to early W4's. If they brought out a superbly liveried W4 but the paint job was actually carried by an prototype R1, I can hear the outcry now. Hornby would be on a hiding to nothing.

 

P

 

They did admit artistic licence in the livery for MSC version, but ultimately it comes down to my signature line 

[Porcy Mane]

ultimately it comes down to my signature line 

 

 

Ultimately, it comes down to what the manufacturers decide to give the punters.    

 

I would like to think that most MR manufactures have had to improve their accuracy, with the expected scale compromises, due to due to increased competition and more demanding consumers but they do take a bit of pride in their products.

 

But each to their own.

 

Fairburn 42085 in Caledonian livery Lakeside & Haverthwaite by Andy, on Flickr

 

P

[Ruffnut Thorston]

Nice Fairburn Tank!

 

There was also the other one...

 

 

 

 

In its early days, 2085 carried Caledonian Railway blue livery, complete with an oval brass Caledonian number plate. This attractive livery was popular with the public, but strongly divided opinions in the preservation movement for its inaccuracy. At the same time, 2073 was painted in LNWR blackberry black, which was comparably anachronistic but generated less hostility as it did at least resemble the original livery.

 

 

https://steammemories.blogspot.co.uk/2014/12/lakeside-and-haverthwaite-railway.html

 

 

 

Bachmann did make a Collectors Club version of the Caley Blue one...in OO and N Gauges (Graham Farish branded...)

 

 

No. 42085 being completed at Brighton Works in 1951, intended for use on the Southern region. Following 16 years in service, 42085 was withdrawn in April 1967 whilst allocated to Normanton shed on the North Eastern region. Preserved for use on the Lakeside & Haverthwaite Railway, No. 2085 – carrying its Caledonian Blue livery- was at the head of the inaugural train on the 2nd May 1973 when the railway re-opened.

 

I do think that Wrenn did a Standard 4 Tank in Caley Blue as well!

Edited December 11, 2017 by Sarahagain

[The Ghost of IKB]

There is the issue of proportionality

Of course all those wringing their hands over a scale 2 inches will all be running their pecketts on p4 track?

[Ruston]

Of course all those wringing their hands over a scale 2 inches will all be running their pecketts on p4 track?

Why is that that in any discussion about the dimensions or other detail accuracy of locomotive models does someone have to come up with that old chestnut? It's as if just because the majority of us who use track that we're saddled with due to some ancient, and now unchangeable in the mass-market, reasons, are not supposed to care about the rest of the details on a locomotive.

 

Give it a rest, please.

[adb968008]

Why is that that in any discussion about the dimensions or other detail accuracy of locomotive models does someone have to come up with that old chestnut? It's as if just because the majority of us who use track that we're saddled with due to some ancient, and now unchangeable in the mass-market, reasons, are not supposed to care about the rest of the details on a locomotive.

 

Give it a rest, please.

We could all go HO..

 

Ho Ho Ho...merry christmas.

 

N gauge modellers don’t know easy they have it.

Edited December 13, 2017 by adb968008

[Caledonian]

Returning to the wider question of liveries I have to make the rather obvious observation that these are industrial locomotives. A cycling lion confers a certain anonymity and within reason such a locomotive can turn up almost anywhere. The same goes for locomotives bearing letters such as LNER or LMS, but [          ] Gas Works is a bit limiting.

 

I'm all for variety and colour,  but I would prefer not to see locomotives bearing banner headlines proclaiming them to be in the service of that local gas works or whatever, - except of course go-anywhere N.C.B. Lets have something anonymous that can populate the layout of our imagination.

Edited December 13, 2017 by Caledonian

[adb968008]

Returning to the wider question of liveries I have to make the rather obvious observation that these are industrial locomotives. A cycling lion confers a certain anonymity and within reason such a locomotive can turn up almost anywhere. The same goes for locomotives bearing letters such as LNER or LMS, but [ ] Gas Works is a bit limiting.

 

I'm all for variety and colour, but I would prefer not to see locomotives bearing banner headlines proclaiming them to be in the service of that local gas works or whatever, - except of course go-anywhere N.C.B. Lets have something anonymous that can populate the layout of our imagination.

Does get any more anonymous than this..

https://www.Hornby.com/uk-en/peckett-0-4-0st-883-lilleshall-co.html

 

Interesting that 6 months after the announcements of Niclausse and 560 in works green, they haven’t yet sold out to preorder, seems Bitcoin demand has finally exceeded demand for the Peckett.

Edited December 13, 2017 by adb968008

[Chris116]

Interesting that 6 months after the announcements of Niclausse and 560 in works green, they haven’t yet sold out to preorder, seems Bitcoin demand has finally exceeded demand for the Peckett.

Maybe a lot of people have done what I have done and ordered the Hattons P class and Barclay locos and have run out of money for the time being and so am hoping they don't sell out before my cash flow has improved.

[Caledonian]

Maybe a lot of people have done what I have done and ordered the Hattons P class and Barclay locos and have run out of money for the time being and so am hoping they don't sell out before my cash flow has improved.

 

Alas yes, Lilleshall Peckett on order, a Barclay on order and more of both if only I could afford them

[johnd]

All 3 versions of the Peckett ordered along with a couple of Barclays( DCC decoders as well)!

All 3 versions of the Peckett ordered along with a couple of Barclays( DCC decoders as well)!

[PaulRhB]

Let's hope more variety like the Barclays is to come.

Edited December 14, 2017 by PaulRhB

[Rising Standards]

One thing I would like to see on future Peckett releases is a standard DCC decoder interface. I did send an email to Hornby some time ago suggesting a six pin socket should be provided. The reply came back advising that there was insufficient room for one in the loco. Having taken the huff and tried wiring in a six pin harness myself, I must concede that the reply was correct, at least without risking modifications to the chassis!

 

However, a Next18 socket and decoder probably would fit in front of the motor. I usually begrudge the use of Next18 in steam locos after the Bachmann Coal Tank, purely because the decoders seem quite expensive to use in a loco that only has 4 wires to connect to it, but a Zimo MX618 would be no more expensive than the Lenz Silver Mini I hard wired into my Pecketts, and it'd be a lot quicker to fit!

[Lu4472ke]

The reply came back advising that there was insufficient room for one in the loco. 

 

If hattons has put a 6 pin socket in their Andrew Barclay, then there has got to be space for one in the peckett.

[Porcy Mane]

However, a Next18 socket and decoder probably would fit in front of the motor.

 

And the addition of a specifically designed PCB would probably add a significant amount to the cost. Reading elsewhere there is also the problem of opposing manufactures interpreting the Next 18 interface differently. I'm sure Hornby may look at a different connection in the future but seeing as they market a specific 4 pin decoder they will not want to limit that items sale potential.

 

If hattons has put a 6 pin socket in their Andrew Barclay, then there has got to be space for one in the peckett.

 

The shape of the Barclay saddle tank gives a lot more leeway when it comes to finding space for a NEM651 connector.

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/126141-andrew-barclay-14-16-0-4-0st-in-oo-gauge/page-19&do=findComment&comment=2945276

 

P

[SRman]

I'm not convinced by the 'lack of space' argument. I fitted a TCS M1 decoder, which is both smaller and better than Hornby's 4-pin decoder. I wired the TCS decoder to the 4-pin "blanking" plug, but the space reserved for the 4-pin plug and blank could fit a small 6-pin plug and decoder. I'm not sure if that would also fit in the space at the front of the motor reserved for the wired decoder.

I would hasten to add, I know that not all 6-pin decoders would fit - some are too long - but at least it would give a wider choice of decoders rather than being captive to Hornby for the one and only 4-pin decoder on the market.

 

[Porcy Mane]

I'm not convinced by the 'lack of space' argument. I fitted a TCS M1 decoder, which is both smaller and better than Hornby's 4-pin decoder. I wired the TCS decoder to the 4-pin "blanking" plug, but the space reserved for the 4-pin plug and blank could fit a small 6-pin plug and decoder. I'm not sure if that would also fit in the space at the front of the motor reserved for the wired decoder.

 

I would hasten to add, I know that not all 6-pin decoders would fit - some are too long - but at least it would give a wider choice of decoders rather than being captive to Hornby for the one and only 4-pin decoder on the market.

 

 

 

Agreed but Hornby's probable view is why fit an interface that has the potential to harm sales of their own decoder. Probably 80% (?) of their target market that wants dcc will be satisfied with the "plug & play" Hornby chip, the rest that want to fit other makers chips probably have the nonce to hard wire or swap connectors.

 

There are some excellent 6 pin chips out there. If I can fit an NEM connector and decoder to a Wickham Trolley, anyone could do it with a Peckett.

 

 

P

[peterfgf]

I thought the 4-pin socket fitted in the Peckett was a bit odd and also considered that a 6-pin socket could have been squeezed in. 

I took the socket out and hard wired in a DCC Concepts ZN8H - this is a smallish decoder and there is enough room to fit this in front of the motor (if the wiring is kept neat and tidy).  This worked well enough but I was worried about stalling on point-work.  After some hesitation about spoiling the rather nice cab interior,  I drilled a 2mm hole in the firebox backhead for the leads and fitted the supplied stay-alive capacitor in the cab.  Visually this wasn't as bad as I feared and the capacitor doesn't protrude aft of the cab's forward hand rails.  The model does seem to run better and and more smoothly now, especially though points.

[Lu4472ke]

Agreed but Hornby's probable view is why fit an interface that has the potential to harm sales of their own decoder. Probably 80% (?) of their target market that wants dcc will be satisfied with the "plug & play" Hornby chip, the rest that want to fit other makers chips probably have the nonce to hard wire or swap connectors.

 

There are some excellent 6 pin chips out there. If I can fit an NEM connector and decoder to a Wickham Trolley, anyone could do it with a Peckett.

 

WickhamMdlingBM-013-CombSm.jpg

 

P

 

Those Wickham Trolleys are DCC ready?

[SRman]

Those Wickham Trolleys are DCC ready?

 

Well, Porcy's is!

 

Mine was hard-wired, so doesn't quite fill the criteria for being DCC-ready.

[Porcy Mane]

Those Wickham Trolleys are DCC ready?

 

No.

 

Read through this thread. There are multiple ways of achieving it.

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/82311-wickham-trolley/page-27&do=findComment&comment=2534552

 

P

[w124bob]

I fitted mine with the Hornby decoder, as the loco is already an absolute gem of a runner I didn't really see the need to fit anything esle other than the hybrid 4pin and the only cv change was for the address.