Hornby Announce Peckett W4 0-4-0ST

[adb968008]

Actually the so-called MSC one isn't. Hornby admit that they winged it and basically gave us a generic forest green livery that a lot of Pecketts ran around in and taking the red blob off the side is a doddle

The red blob is actually legit on the MSC one, it's the yellow lining which isn't.

[Caledonian]

Depends how you define legit. There's no evidence that Alexandria/11 was painted in that or any other shade of green [we had a long discussion way back in this thread] but I have to say what annoyed me about the red blog [swiftly removed from mine] was how prominent in terms of relief the number plate was on the original - really sticking out, although ironically the number of tank wagons seen behind it in the only known photie makes me think the photie post-dates the sale by the MSC

[Caledonian]

Anyway the point is that as soon as you take the red blob off you're left with a perfectly respectable "generic" Peckett

[No Decorum]

ive done the same, and I agree, a loco that has a mane or a certain livery, can be a bit limiting to where it can be used.

Lion?

[SRman]

The red names and numbers on the saddle tanks come off easily with T-cut,with no damage to the underlying paintwork. I can't say the same for any cabside markings.

[Edwardian]

I think providing at least one loco in the Peckett works livery was a very sensible choice. The magazines often have articles on how to change identities by removing numbers etc.

 

Narrow Planet will do Peckett works plates for any year/works number you want.

 

The Ixion O Gauge Hudswell Clarkes came in generic liveries, i.e. freelance liveries, not necessarily works livery. I daresay that Hornby might try this with the Pecketts - if its sold as a freelance livery, no harm, no foul - before the tooling wears out, but unless you have a fictitious concern with its own house livery, adapting the works-liveried examples is a good, prototypical solution.  

 

I'd love to see Hornby or Bachmann produce a Manning Wardle 0-6-0ST, probably a K Class as perhaps the most numerous.  There were lots of gorgeous liveries, with contractors often having elaborate lining schemes.  Of course, the colours won't always be known. I would vote for one in Manning Wardle works livery, which, I believe, was a rather pleasant shade of blue, but perhaps someone here can confirm or correct me on that.

[Mike at C&M]

Peckett nearing SELL OUT after only 6 days!

 

Hornby's words, not mine. Taken from a trade press release.

 

We are some 16 months away from release from the version due in December 2018. Are production quantities so inflexible so far in advance? Alternatively. are Hornby unable to see an opportunity to increase sales by adjusting production runs of future releases?

 

Obviously those who want one should speak to their retailers before they are all pre-sold so far ahead of release.

[Roy Langridge]

Peckett nearing SELL OUT after only 6 days!

 

Hornby's words, not mine. Taken from a trade press release.

 

We are some 16 months away from release from the version due in December 2018. Are production quantities so inflexible so far in advance? Alternatively. are Hornby unable to see an opportunity to increase sales by adjusting production runs of future releases?

 

Obviously those who want one should speak to their retailers before they are all pre-sold so far ahead of release.

Perhaps they have adjusted quantities and still they sell out? It seems there is always a rush to criticise.

 

Roy

[adb968008]

Sounds well managed to me.

 

If they swamp the market with 10 liveries all at once, or made 10k of each these 3, chances are the bubble will burst and Pecketts will be in everyone's bargain bin.

 

It is a bit astonishing though that they are selling out so quick... too quick perhaps ?

 

Perhaps too many people are speculating in Peckettmania, If my hairdresser tells me he's pre-ordered a few..I'm definitely cancelling my preorders !

 

16 months is also plenty of time for a Black Swan to disrupt this market too, but Brexit is 18months away, so the Black swans may be waiting a while yet.

 

It's best not to over do the production, otherwise Hornby might find themselves with a lot of leftovers at delivery. No black swan, then they have another 16 months to make more.

 

What surprises me more is 2 years (and a near record breaking 109 pages), that all the competition is still sitting on the fence, with no obvious display of any intent to respond.. Hornby's clearly got an open goal right now, and for a while yet, I wonder if Heljans and Bachmann investments in 009 will do as well ?

I suspect in this instance, Brexit has clearly worked in Hornbys favour and spooked investment in this new market, giving them the whole biscuit to nibble, as it were, (H&P of course).

Edited August 16, 2017 by adb968008

[tomparryharry]

I'd respectfully suggest that the 'sell out' depends where in the chain have Hornby actually 'nearly sold out'.

 

I'd still like one myself, and will most probably do so. The Lilleshall flavour ( if I can get one) will definitely end up on my shunting plank. If Hornby do indeed over-order, I'll be prepared to wait. My first edition Pecketts are mint-mint boxed, and I see no reason to 'play' with them. I'd reckon Hornby will sell out with the ex-works version, but I can't see many making it to the train layout.

 

Are Bristol Museum selling the models?

 

Ian.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

...What surprises me more is 2 years (and a near record breaking 109 pages), that all the competition is still sitting on the fence, with no obvious display of any intent to respond.. Hornby's clearly got an open goal right now, and for a while yet, I wonder if Heljans and Bachmann investments in 009 will do as well ?...

Two competitors had similarly small locos already announced, Dapol  B4 and DJM Hudswell-Clarke. My guess is that between these three, that's most of the RTR market demand for a good quality 'small steam industrial' mopped up for the time being.

 

I expect OO9 to be much the same, a relatively small number of products will quickly saturate the market.

 

There's plenty of folk who 'want one' in short. But I suspect that the majority will only want one.

[PaulRhB]

Doesn't sound like it if the nearly sold out statement is anything to go by.

Considering how popular micro and cameo layouts are id say there's a fairly big market. The Dapol / Hornby pug has been popular for years.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

...Considering how popular micro and cameo layouts are id say there's a fairly big market. The Dapol / Hornby pug has been popular for years.

Oh, it's a decent enough sized market to support a RTR model, and while there was no effective competition that pug hoovered up the sales. I imagine that 'the squeeze' began to be put on this product by the likes of the BWT and Sentinel. Something small but better is possible. Now the Peckett is available, what do you suppose the Dapol/Hornby pug's sales' prospects are? And once the small Dapol and DJM models are on sale?

 

Keep in mind I would be very happy to be mistaken, and to see a well chosen selection representing the typical outlines and principal manufacturers of small industrial types available as RTR models. If this niche is big enough to support sales like that, it might tempt all the RTR players to consider the potential of the 'niche' that starts roughly 200 miles North of London...

[PaulRhB]

The pug is still a decent model if you model the relevant areas but I didn't use one as a generic industrial because I looked it as a Pug Still have one just because I like them though.

[rope runner]

Two competitors had similarly small locos already announced, Dapol  B4 and DJM Hudswell-Clarke. My guess is that between these three, that's most of the RTR market demand for a good quality 'small steam industrial' mopped up for the time being.

 

There's plenty of folk who 'want one' in short. But I suspect that the majority will only want one.

There's no facts or data supporting your perceived customer wants/market size/saturation.

 

Dealing in hard facts and I think we can all agree on: What's been seen in the last few years is Hornby producing 2 excellent-selling industrial locomotives, which have either outsold/kept up with their mainline counterparts due to their widespread geographic appeal, distinctive appearance and substantially lower price point. 

 

Any suggestions that the market will now be saturated for such types or that "new industrial loco models have had their day for the time being" is just as valid as assuming that this is only the start of a new trend in modelling, making micro layouts and industrial settings more accessible and popular than had previously been the case.

 

Paul A. 

[Caledonian]

The pug is still a decent model if you model the relevant areas but I didn't use one as a generic industrial because I looked it as a Pug Still have one just because I like them though.

 

I agree I have two L&Y Pugs which run well and in pre-Peckett days I frequently thought about "industrialising" one with a blue paint job, and every time held off because its an attractive model of any attractive type and I didn't want to ruin it. Mr Peckett saves the day and in due course I'm reminded that a B4 ended up at Backworth.

[Porcy Mane]

Mr Peckett saves the day and in due course I'm reminded that a B4 ended up at Backworth.

 

 

And one was driven mainline all the way to Skinningrove. (via Leicester!)

 

P

[adb968008]

Can anyone recall another rtr OO gauge class of model (not individual livery or number ) that has survived 3 different general releases (not limited editions) as a complete sellout, fetching 3x RRP each, and 3 subsequent releases being a complete sell out before delivery ?

 

I've been in this game since 1979 and I not recall an occasion like this, though the APT and Rocket did do well but mostly after they stopped making it.

Models come and go, some rare for a time, some numbers or liveries take off to extreme rarity (that only lasts until another tooling is produced) but on the whole entire classes of models don't disappear off the selves to buyers who seem to give their first born for one and grandmothers for a second and certainly not on a second issue.

 

In the 1980's some older 60's stuff commanded high prices, A1, 73000,Class 76, 124 etc but that was due to supplier demise, not extreme demand. Some limited editions achieved cult status Bachmann's 60008 was selling for £650 once, Limas 50008 went for £175 days after release, even Dapols D1000 can fetch £275 and of course the SECR C class and it's £400 but these are specific numbers or liveries.

 

There's either a new market that's been starving for industrials and people are going to start trading stock options on these pecketts before they are released to use as new car deposits... or come December 2019 there's going to be a lot of Pecketts on shelves.

 

Personally I think his loco is uniquely different to other rtr and had they picked an Andrew Barclay or an Avonside the result would have still been the same.. it's pure play industrial, it can sit on most layouts from the 1870's to the 2017's, it's small, colourful, cute and affordable.. and it runs well and pulls even more. On my layout I can justify at least 7 different industrials, whilst a J94 is ok, the Peckett is better I suspect I'm not alone in at thought.

 

To me Peckettmania will last until another industrial hits the shelves, and I suspect there's room for 4-5 more pure play industrials and demand will peak after the first 3, In my mind the secret recipe is scope.. it needs to be a "supplier standard" model, sold to many companies, in many liveries in a large quantity or over a long period of time.. the B4 doesn't fit that model, the J94 sits ok, but the W4 is nail on the head, if theHudswell Clarke makes it to number 2 or 3 spot it will too, until we see another actually hitting the shelves (not just on websites), this is Hornby's market to exploit, and bite sized chunks certainly keeps everyone hungry. If the competition decides to stay away, this little loco could become the engine that saved Hornby.

Edited August 17, 2017 by adb968008

[tomparryharry]

It depends whom is doing the selling. If it's a seller on E-bah-gum, then "mint in box/kit built/extremely rare" could expect anything.

 

In fact, it's as rare as a Dodo. I know, I know, I'll fetch my coat....

 

Ian.

[MarkSG]

The other thing about the Peckett, though, is that it's extremely good value for money. It's a high quality model that has garnered very positive reviews, but it retails at well under the psychologically important £100 price point.  So it's cheap enough to be an impulse purchase, and there's a lot about it to provide that impulse.

 

The market for it will, of course, eventually reach saturation point - or, at least, slow to a trickle. But it has already covered its base development costs, so the only cost of each new livery is the livery design work itself and the physical manufacturing. That means that, even at the relatively low price, it's probably qite a nice little earner by now for Hornby, and if they ever do reach the point where they release a new version and it doesn't sell, they'll be able to shift them by discounting and yet still make a useful margin. And then leave it for a while before doing another one, so any previously unmet demand has a chance to build up again.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

...There's either a new market that's been starving for industrials and people are going to start trading stock options on these pecketts before they are released to use as new car deposits... or come December 2019 there's going to be a lot of Pecketts on shelves.

 

Personally I think his loco is uniquely different to other rtr, and had they picked an Andrew Barclay or an Avonside the result would have still been the same...

That's exactly where I am coming from. The first available model in RTR of a small, pretty, and typical and thus 'universal' industrial, from one of the well known firms. And it has scooped the pool. I believe it is a stretch to consider this a predictor of inevitable similar success for further introductions of other types. Welcome though this would be.

[The Stationmaster]

That's exactly where I am coming from. The first available model in RTR of a small, pretty, and typical and thus 'universal' industrial, from one of the well known firms. And it has scooped the pool. I believe it is a stretch to consider this a predictor of inevitable similar success for further introductions of other types. Welcome though this would be.

 

I think you might well be right.  What we don't really know is whether there is or isn't a wider, and sustainable, market for other steam outline industrial engines.  The Peckett has scored well for a variety of reasons ranging from visual appeal of the initial batch to the price point and build quality backed by a known manufacturer.   Other offerings might not manage to combine such features and could fall short somewhere in the mix thereby not doing well while yet others might, for whatever reason, repeat the Peckett story but I really do wonder if the market is yet broad enough and mature enough for others to take the plunge?  Only time will tell and wouldn't it be great if others could manage it (I have list!)

[Dunsignalling]

That's exactly where I am coming from. The first available model in RTR of a small, pretty, and typical and thus 'universal' industrial, from one of the well known firms. And it has scooped the pool. I believe it is a stretch to consider this a predictor of inevitable similar success for further introductions of other types. Welcome though this would be.

I don't think one small industrial loco in a limited number of liveries will have fulfilled the demand for such models or dissuade others from having a go at this market segment.

 

There is likely to be a reasonable ongoing demand both for more (but not too many) Hornby Pecketts in various liveries/conformations for as long as the tooling is likely to last.

 

Having had our interest piqued by the Peckett, I doubt I'm the only punter eagerly awaiting DJM's Hudswell Clarke 0-6-0ST and I'll be interested to see if Bachmann decide to enter the sector. I suspect they will but Heljan and Dapol probably won't - they'll prefer to release small locos in 7mm, despite the established competition in that scale. 

 

That said, I consider it misguided to assume the existence of a highly remunerative bandwagon on which to jump . 

 

Established fans of industrial locos and the shunting plank/boxfile layouts to which they are eminently suited would no doubt snap-up an annual release of such a model once they have all the Pecketts they desire.

 

For the rest, the manufacturers might be well advised not to visit the well too frequently.

 

John

Edited August 18, 2017 by Dunsignalling

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

I do see one 'high potential' in this genre, but don't know nearly enough to suggest what specific subject the model should represent. That's a crane tank. Was there a reasonably numerous design that saw widespread service (in both geography and time span) and thereby has the potential to be a 'universal'  model?

[Norton961]

Started on my Peckett, 3 link couplings and taken of the name. Now waiting for a P4 chassis conversionkit, which is comming!

Absolutely lovely model.

 

David