RMweb Gold MikeParkin65 Posted August 10, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 10, 2017 Three further planned batches, Two @ £99, surely enough to go round. Don't panic... Don't panic... Don't panic... Don't panic... This will scupper a certain South Midlands based retailer who was trying to flog a green Dodo for £180 at the recent Glos and Warks diesel gala. Happy to report he hadn't shifted it when I left Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium John M Upton Posted August 10, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 10, 2017 Are there unscrupulous individuals already pre-ordering these in large quantities in order to make a quick buck on Ebay? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Saunders Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 Are there unscrupulous individuals already pre-ordering these in large quantities in order to make a quick buck on Ebay? Almost certainly, but at what point will the bubble burst? Mark Saunders Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Porcy Mane Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 (edited) I thought that was an Impetus kit built by Paul Tasker (Mr Prickley Pear). IIRC it was featured on the back of 'Scalefour News' some years ago? Andy Thanks, having jogged my failing memory banks , you are correct. With a few body modifications & lots of other manufacturers bits and bobs if I remember correctly. (I probably don't) Are there unscrupulous individuals already pre-ordering these in large quantities in order to make a quick buck on Ebay? Probably, but supply and demand and all that blah. If prospective buyers "don't panic" by starting to pay silly asking prices from silly sellers then prices should remain sensible. I'm sure the Hornby people will be more than happy if they move all production straight out to retailers. P Edited August 10, 2017 by Porcy Mane 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dorset Wanderer Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 Announced early enough so Hornby can ensure that run quantity is sufficient to fulfill orders I expect. Plus slot is confirmed usually about 3 months prior to production Steve Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Roy Langridge Posted August 10, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 10, 2017 Announced early enough so Hornby can ensure that run quantity is sufficient to fulfill orders I expect. Plus slot is confirmed usually about 3 months prior to production Steve I thought it was reported as much further ahead than that now. Roy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rope runner Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 When I surveyed the Peckett works photos at the NRM last year I noted a great number of them featured tank side numbers and the Atlas Loco Works branding along the footplate side. However, I've never seen any photos of them at work with this livery - was this simply for the catalog or did locos actually leave the works and get put to use in this livery? Paul A. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinnylinny Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 Basically they're just two more versions of 'Dodo', with different numbers, and a nameplate. Given that this was the 'standard style' of output from Peckett perhaps we shouldn't be surprised, but l myself would have thought something a little more adventurous could have been offered. There are subtle differences between the two models that have just been announced - the plumbing under the tank for one thing, and the lining is subtly different between the two models (as well as the Scottish one appearing to have a repainted upper cab panel in a slightly different colour). Certainly I'm impressed that Hornby are arranging slight variations between members of the class, rather than just repainting and hoping it's good enough! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quarryscapes Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 Ordered and paid for a 560 from Derails, to go along with the Lilleshall black one I've also preordered. Is 3 Pecketts too many? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hroth Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 Ordered and paid for a 560 from Derails, to go along with the Lilleshall black one I've also preordered. Is 3 Pecketts too many? Nope. Sounds perfectly reasonable to me! Now, who's going to organise draining all the drool from the floor of this forum? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hroth Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 Just a thought here, but I have infront of me the official Peckett and Sons price list and catalog, containing 78 pages of Peckett official works photographs. Every locomotive picture shows a locomotive in the works colour scheme, over 80+ pictures, all obviously the same livery. None of them show a dark green panel on the upper part of the footplate as per R3460 Niklausse.. was this one different for a reason ? The oldest example in the price catalog is wks No 959, the newest is No 1859.. so this dates the catalog as around 1933. How much were Peckett quoting for one? Hat, coat, Zipppppppppppppppppppppppppp...... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold adb968008 Posted August 10, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 10, 2017 (edited) How much were Peckett quoting for one? Hat, coat, Zipppppppppppppppppppppppppp...... Same price as a 00 one on ebay today... follows you out of the door..... :-) Actually it says.. "It will be noticed that we give in this list as much information as possible, with exception of prices. Prices are necessarily dependant on the fluctuations of the market, and if printed in this list would very soon be out of date and misleading. We shall be please to give quotations on application for locomotives suitable for any gauge of railway or class of work, constructed for burning coal, wood or oil as fuel, together with photographs and a full specification. Our prices, we think, will compare very favourably with those of other makers. It has always been our endeavour to maintain the highest standard of excellence, for which we have reputation in the past, and to reduce cost to the lowest point...." Nothing ever changes. Edited August 10, 2017 by adb968008 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertiedog Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 Don't take it as criticism of the new Hornby, but I deeply wonder if the details of the maker on the edge on the footplate edge was added to the negative on the printing of the photograph. I have examined many glass plate negatives, often 8x10 inch, of works photos over the years on researching models and often the neg is a mass of alterations painted on, or photo graphically overlaid, photo shop is not new! The engravers and printers could easily add features, fittings or even fake whole photos of a class being advertised that they had no proper photo for. Adding the characters to the edge would be no problem at all, and such details were added to establish copyright as well. So not sure the lettering should really be there.............. Stephen Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dorset Wanderer Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 Depends on orders and if a Chinese holiday falls during the lead time- been out of dealing with China for a couple of years now so can't remember dates Steve quote name="Roy Langridge" post="2815991" timestamp="1502381112"] I thought it was reported as much further ahead than that now. Roy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
boody227 Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 I've had a Lilleshall one pre ordered for a while and I've just pre ordered 560 from derails. They have a price match guarantee so thought it was a good option! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caledonian Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 Announced early enough so Hornby can ensure that run quantity is sufficient to fulfill orders I expect. Plus slot is confirmed usually about 3 months prior to production Steve So on that basis would we be looking at a triple release like last time; two greenies and the Lilleshall black together? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caledonian Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 (edited) Don't take it as criticism of the new Hornby, but I deeply wonder if the details of the maker on the edge on the footplate edge was added to the negative on the printing of the photograph. I have examined many glass plate negatives, often 8x10 inch, of works photos over the years on researching models and often the neg is a mass of alterations painted on, or photo graphically overlaid, photo shop is not new! The engravers and printers could easily add features, fittings or even fake whole photos of a class being advertised that they had no proper photo for. Adding the characters to the edge would be no problem at all, and such details were added to establish copyright as well. So not sure the lettering should really be there.............. Stephen Well the photie's really the equivalent of a shop grey for the records rather than what the customer wants - and in fact given that its in black and white it may well be photographic grey rather than the green Hornby are planning. Edited August 10, 2017 by Caledonian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caledonian Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 That'll be why they went for a Peckett rather than a Barclay Mind you, Lonely Planet could have their work cut out with that nameplate. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hroth Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 They made a little error on the Engine Shed description for Niklausse. Willians and Robinson were in Queensferry, Flintshire, not Queensferry, Scotland. It was news to me when I read that Queensferry (North or South) in Scotland had a boiler works so had to double check! Oops! Oh well, I've put in for an example of 560, it'll keep Huntley company...... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwardian Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 Ah, more pretty ones with brass Salter valve domes. That is something to look forward to. Keep 'em coming, Hornby! 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertiedog Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 (edited) There was an instance in the 1970's where a Japanese brass manufacturer was commissioned by Pacific Fast Mail via Tenshodo to produce a run of Australian Garrets, not in brass finish, but fully painted, which Tenshodo's manufacturer was not experienced in doing, being used to making a varnished brass finish. They were sent a sheaf of photo to work from, and did the samples very quickly, sent them to Australia for assessment, and PFM found they were in possession of a run of locos finished in grey, black, and white, as the Japanese had used the works photos as the only reference for the paintwork! The real locos were often painted in what was known as soot and whitewash, to make details clearer on the glass orthochromatic photographic plates that were used, Whitewash was made grey by adding soot, with extra gum Arabic, and soot and gum was used for black. The finish was very temporary as it washed off very easily, although some woks used proper paint if the loco was to be displayed at trade shows or to the public in exhibitions. Often the glass negatives were not used direct for reproduction as there were few processes that could directly take a negative to make a printing plate from, so engravers were employed to copy the entire negative by hand on to a printing plate. This was an exceedingly skilled process, and engravings are often mistaken for photos. As direct transfer became possible, the same engravers undertook alterations to photos before printing, adding and removing items at will. So never trust old photos they can deceive by accident, and my vote would be that those Pecketts never had the lettering on them except in the factory or added to the negative. Stephen Edited August 10, 2017 by bertiedog Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
alfsboy Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 I thought Tenshodo wre always painted .Cant say I have ever seen one in brass . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertiedog Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 I thought Tenshodo wre always painted .Cant say I have ever seen one in brass . Tenshodo certainly made all brass, but Tenshodo were not a maker but a retail merchant for several makers in Japan. Until about 1967 all were brass or plain black to special order with only modern diesels sold with full painted finishes. Stephen. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold adb968008 Posted August 10, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 10, 2017 (edited) Looking at the pictures (which are not all taken from an elevation side view), there are several different styles and placements of the lettering, and in some cases the actual words differ .. particularly relating to the word "limited".. including "Limited", "Co. Ltd", "Ltd", "Ltd." and L with "TD" above the "L", and some cases it's missing. My thoughts are the photographers went to great lengths to ensure every image was different (including front 3/4 views, which need accurate angling/spacing and gradual reduction in font size for every letter) Or it was painted, ... However none of the pictures I have, are outside the company walls(i.e. In service), and looking online at least, I can't find any obviously none-works pictures with the letters on, that said.. how many people took pictures of industrials in the 1880-1900's and how many locos would retain the paint after the first overhaul ? To add to that there are also a few works pictures showing locos being finished, at least 1 on a flatbed, without lettering (but the loco in question, a narrow gauge loco is clearly. neither green nor with a running plate). What would decide it would be a nice image of a peckett on a flat bed being towed by a road roller.. On balance it would seem the lettering either didn't last more than a few years when new, or just didn't leave the gates with it. On the subject of livery, it's been confirmed several times Dodo's livery was base factory livery, including by ex-Peckett employees, but without a time machines seems some just won't accept it. Either way, with or without lettering a chance to put two or three together in base factory livery would suit anyone's layout. Edited August 10, 2017 by adb968008 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rising Standards Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 Well the photie's really the equivalent of a shop grey for the records rather than what the customer wants - and in fact given that its in black and white it may well be photographic grey rather than the green Hornby are planning. I was thinking this might be the case too. Grey seems more likely and would certainly be something different, but could be a harder sell. On the whole I applaud Hornby's decision to make more in works green, given that it sounds like a lot of W4s would have been delivered wearing it. After all, it's by far the most versatile livery for modellers to put into the employment of a fictional business. From a personal perspective, with a pair of Dodos waiting for me to plan their workplace and choose their new identities, I think I'll see whether the Lilleshall decorated sample impresses me or wait for a red/darker blue one instead of picking these up. I do hope for Hornby's sake that they'll be equally strong sellers though! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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