RMweb Premium Compound2632 Posted January 3, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 3, 2017 No.21 was one of a batch of five wagons ordered in October 1908 together with a 7 year repair contract. The wagons were new and H&P paid cash. I don't as yet know what the other numbers were... Thanks - what is your source? I only repeated what is in the caption to the photo in Keith Montague's Gloucester book. Going back to my post about the H&P wagons, from the linked photo one can infer that H&P had prior to that a batch of dumb-buffered wagons - 1880s vintage? - Nos. 1 - 4 or 5, then a batch of sprung buffered wagons with iron/steel underframes, Nos. 4/5 - at least 10 - 1890s? I do remember reading something about the builder and date of H&P locos A and B which would provide a tentative date for the photo. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rope runner Posted January 3, 2017 Share Posted January 3, 2017 Reading between the lines of the Peckett service sheet and "background info", I think it highly likely that they will announce a model with cut-down chimney and safety valves (if not roof too) in the very near future. Paul A. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Portchullin Tatty Posted January 3, 2017 Share Posted January 3, 2017 Not my work, so I can't claim the glory for this but here is a Peckett that has gone under the knife to make it rather more industrial. Replaced buffer beam, cut back smokebox wings, changed handrails, cut down chimney and new dome. Plus, a good dose of muck to truely make it feel as if it has worked hard for the last 40 years............. Work by a mate, you can see a bit more about what he has done in his blog here https://otcm.wordpress.com/2017/01/02/filthy-dirty-grubby-meet-the-model-of-2016-the-peckett-is-finished/ 18 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamport Southport Posted January 3, 2017 Share Posted January 3, 2017 Thanks - what is your source? I only repeated what is in the caption to the photo in Keith Montague's Gloucester book. Going back to my post about the H&P wagons, from the linked photo one can infer that H&P had prior to that a batch of dumb-buffered wagons - 1880s vintage? - Nos. 1 - 4 or 5, then a batch of sprung buffered wagons with iron/steel underframes, Nos. 4/5 - at least 10 - 1890s? I do remember reading something about the builder and date of H&P locos A and B which would provide a tentative date for the photo. They are Black Hawthorns So sometime between 1865 and 1896. Jason Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Compound2632 Posted January 3, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 3, 2017 They are Black Hawthorns So sometime between 1865 and 1896. Jason Bingo! 1875 - I knew I'd seen it somewhere but needed to be reminded of Black Hawthorn to do the search. The photo I was referring to is, I am confident, rather later - 1890s? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wagonman Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 (edited) Thanks - what is your source? I only repeated what is in the caption to the photo in Keith Montague's Gloucester book. Going back to my post about the H&P wagons, from the linked photo one can infer that H&P had prior to that a batch of dumb-buffered wagons - 1880s vintage? - Nos. 1 - 4 or 5, then a batch of sprung buffered wagons with iron/steel underframes, Nos. 4/5 - at least 10 - 1890s? I do remember reading something about the builder and date of H&P locos A and B which would provide a tentative date for the photo. My source is the Gloucester RC&WCo Agenda Books which are in Gloucester Records Office. I'm sure they had other batches of wagons, but not from Gloucester. I'll have a hunt through to see what I can find – I think there was something in one of the GWR registers. Edited January 4, 2017 by wagonman Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamport Southport Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 All useful information. I'm keeping mine as a H&P one. So I'll probably go down the POW sides transfers with Slaters wagons route. I think I've got some of those. I wonder how much different the High Level Black Hawthorn is to A and B? I'm not modelling anything in particular, I just like things that go together. Jason 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wagonman Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 My source is the Gloucester RC&WCo Agenda Books which are in Gloucester Records Office. I'm sure they had other batches of wagons, but not from Gloucester. I'll have a hunt through to see what I can find – I think there was something in one of the GWR registers. Your surmise is correct. I've not managed to find the dumb buffered wagons but they must have been 1-5 as 6-10 were bought new for cash from the Birmingham wagon co in 1889 and they were 10-ton wagons with iron underframes and of course spring buffers. Then came 11-20, again new for cash from Brimingham, in April 1903 – as before but now the underframes are steel. So that means the Gloucester batch must have been 21-25. Presumably all registered by the GWR. My Birmingham records only cover rented wagons though many of them were later sold. Reading is a bit outside my territory – I'm presently working on Wiltshire with an addendum for Somerset as inevitably more info has come to light since the book was published. Ian Pope is working on Berkshire/Oxfordshire/Bucks I believe. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wagonman Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 (edited) I think I've found the earliest wagons. They did indeed come from Birmingham and were again 10-tons. Nos 1-5 were financed by the wagon co too and were dispatched on 29 April 1873. Registration was by the GWR that same month. Birmingham repaired them for £3 5s per wagon per year, rising to £3 17s 6d from May 1876, but it doesn't seem to say how much the 'rental' was. The order book recorded their name as "George Palmer, Samuel Palmer and William Isaac Palmer trading as Huntley & Palmers of Reading". So who was Huntley? Oops, just found the answer to that question http://www.huntleyandpalmers.org.uk/ixbin/hixclient.exe?a=query&p=huntley&f=generic_theme.htm&_IXFIRST_=1&_IXMAXHITS_=1&%3dtheme_record_id=rm-rm-factory_content1&s=7FKeelTMttB I hope this is not too much information! Edited January 4, 2017 by wagonman Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Compound2632 Posted January 4, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 4, 2017 I wonder how much different the High Level Black Hawthorn is to A and B? Similar but different - the curvey bufferbeam and squarish cab leap out as different. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Compound2632 Posted January 4, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 4, 2017 I think I've found the earliest wagons. They did indeed come from Birmingham and were again 10-tons. Nos 1-5 were financed by the wagon co too and were dispatched on 29 April 1873. Registration was by the GWR that same month. Birmingham repaired them for £3 5s per wagon per year, rising to £3 17s 6d from May 1876, but it doesn't seem to say how much the 'rental' was. The order book recorded their name as "George Palmer, Samuel Palmer and William Isaac Palmer trading as Huntley & Palmers of Reading". So who was Huntley? Oops, just found the answer to that question http://www.huntleyandpalmers.org.uk/ixbin/hixclient.exe?a=query&p=huntley&f=generic_theme.htm&_IXFIRST_=1&_IXMAXHITS_=1&%3dtheme_record_id=rm-rm-factory_content1&s=7FKeelTMttB I hope this is not too much information! Brilliant - I don't suppose the records give any basic dimensions? (I imagine they're chiefly financial records.) Palmer is the name remembered locally as George Palmer was the philanthropist of the firm. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertiedog Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 Hopefully news of further supplies will be given today by Hornby, but it looks like no repeats of the first versions according to a major retailer, so if quantities are needed they are going to have to be pre ordered en block. At least it has sold out for them, but yet again leaves frustrated customers. I have each version, but hoped to buy several more for the fleet, to modify or alter but that plan is on hold now. Everybody I have shown the model to has wanted to purchase one, but no supplies left now, very sad if no repeats of at least Dodo or another name in the works livery. Stephen. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJS1977 Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 I think I've found the earliest wagons. They did indeed come from Birmingham and were again 10-tons. Nos 1-5 were financed by the wagon co too and were dispatched on 29 April 1873. Registration was by the GWR that same month. Birmingham repaired them for £3 5s per wagon per year, rising to £3 17s 6d from May 1876, but it doesn't seem to say how much the 'rental' was. The order book recorded their name as "George Palmer, Samuel Palmer and William Isaac Palmer trading as Huntley & Palmers of Reading". So who was Huntley? Oops, just found the answer to that question http://www.huntleyandpalmers.org.uk/ixbin/hixclient.exe?a=query&p=huntley&f=generic_theme.htm&_IXFIRST_=1&_IXMAXHITS_=1&%3dtheme_record_id=rm-rm-factory_content1&s=7FKeelTMttB I hope this is not too much information! Another member of the Huntley family was involved in the firm Huntley Bourne and Stephens, who made the tins for H&P. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold toboldlygo Posted January 4, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 4, 2017 Hopefully news of further supplies will be given today by Hornby, but it looks like no repeats of the first versions according to a major retailer, so if quantities are needed they are going to have to be pre ordered en block. At least it has sold out for them, but yet again leaves frustrated customers. I have each version, but hoped to buy several more for the fleet, to modify or alter but that plan is on hold now. Everybody I have shown the model to has wanted to purchase one, but no supplies left now, very sad if no repeats of at least Dodo or another name in the works livery. Stephen. If the RSPP has it's way the Pecketts will only be available to those who have been properly vetted, they must weed out those who are doing cruel and wicked things to these defenseless little engines. Personally I feel sorry for those who'll get caught, as the punishment will fit the crime according to my sources.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Y Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertiedog Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 Only minor changes like the funnel and dome, nothing drastic, but with the supply situation up in the air, what is there to work on? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold PaulRhB Posted January 4, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 4, 2017 If the RSPP has it's way the Pecketts will only be available to those who have been properly vetted, they must weed out those who are doing cruel and wicked things to these defenseless little engines. Personally I feel sorry for those who'll get caught, as the punishment will fit the crime according to my sources.... Rubbed with a cotton bud soaked in Brasso? I fear some might enjoy that . . . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold toboldlygo Posted January 4, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 4, 2017 Only minor changes like the funnel and dome, nothing drastic, but with the supply situation up in the air, what is there to work on? You always have plenty of other trains to work on Rubbed with a cotton bud soaked in Brasso? I fear some might enjoy that . . . They are stocking up on slurry for those who've been weathering them I fear those who've been pulling off chimneys, will have the most to lose Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium PhilJ W Posted January 4, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 4, 2017 (edited) Rubbed with a cotton bud soaked in Brasso? I fear some might enjoy that . . . Edited January 4, 2017 by PhilJ W Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Colin Posted January 4, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 4, 2017 Another idea for a limited edition pack: 3xPecketts in blue, yellow and red liveries named Nellie, Connie and Polly. No? Oh well, I think I might have bought one......... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigherb Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 Another idea for a limited edition pack: 3xPecketts in blue, yellow and red liveries named Nellie, Connie and Polly. No? Oh well, I think I might have bought one......... I probably would as well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigherb Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 Nice plain black livery for 2017 and plain red for the Sentinal looks like Hornby have been listening. Just pre ordered a couple of black Pecketts just in case. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigherb Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 And a Huntley & Palmers wagon. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold toboldlygo Posted January 4, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 4, 2017 (edited) The RSPP have set up an emergency support phone line, for those who have a serious Peckett addiction and are upset about the lack of new releases.. +53 69 69 666666 Edit - I have been asked to add the following disclaimer: All calls cost £80 a minute and will be recorded and traced, please ask the bill payers permission before phoning Edited January 4, 2017 by toboldlygo Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wagonman Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 (edited) Brilliant - I don't suppose the records give any basic dimensions? (I imagine they're chiefly financial records.) Palmer is the name remembered locally as George Palmer was the philanthropist of the firm. Correct, but I would assume from looking at the photo they were typical 15' long x 7' 3" or so wide (external) and about 3' 2" deep – a bit small for a 10-ton wagon which might explain why they're using large lumps of coal as 'greedy boards' to increase the capacity. The latest issue of Pannier (GWSG Journal) has a drawing by Len Tavender of a similar wagon, though rated 8-tons, after conversion to spring buffers as it was when on hire to the GWR in the Edwardian period. It has the typical Birmingham design features of the period. PS: wheelbase probably 8' 6", or even 8' 3" in dead buffer days. Tavender's drawing of a reconstructed/converted wagon shows 9' 0" w/b. Edited January 4, 2017 by wagonman Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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