Photos of AC electrics

[montyburns56]

10 hours ago, hexagon789 said:

The 3rd vehicle is a Mk1 BG Full Brake, the 4th looks like a Mk1 SLSTP - SLeeper Second Twin with Pantry.

 

I'm wondering whether the train is actually from a carriage repair shop as the first Siphon look suspiciously shiny as if it has just been repainted.

[woodenhead]

On 15/12/2022 at 21:37, ianmacc said:

Also is that second Siphon(?) still in brown livery?

 

On 16/12/2022 at 11:30, proton said:

When enlarged it certainly looks like it, brown is uniform and over the ends, with no blue in sight.

That looks like the standard colour of any care worn parcels vehicle from the 70s or 80s - underneath it will be blue, but it has been oversprayed with a mix of

1. brake dust,
2. toilet spray,
3. grime sprayed off the track in wet weather (see 1 and 2)

[62613]

1 hour ago, montyburns56 said:

 

I'm wondering whether the train is actually from a carriage repair shop as the first Siphon look suspiciously shiny as if it has just been repainted.

The nearest repair shop was Wolverton.......

[Darius43]

1 hour ago, woodenhead said:

 

That looks like the standard colour of any care worn parcels vehicle from the 70s or 80s - underneath it will be blue, but it has been oversprayed with a mix of

1. brake dust,
2. toilet spray,
3. grime sprayed off the track in wet weather (see 1 and 2)

There’s a challenge for those who like realistic weathering on their models…

 

Cheers

 

Darius

[DY444]

14 hours ago, montyburns56 said:

 

I'm wondering whether the train is actually from a carriage repair shop as the first Siphon look suspiciously shiny as if it has just been repainted.

 

13 hours ago, 62613 said:

The nearest repair shop was Wolverton.......

 

Indeed, however iirc there was a weekly Derby C&W to Old Oak Common (& vv) working to move stock to/from works for repairs, overhaul etc.  Again iirc this used to run via Market Harborough and Northampton and was electrically worked on the WCML.  Given the siphons in the train, I would suggest there is a good chance it is this working back to OOC.  Main works did smaller repairs on vehicles without always repainting them so some of the vehicles not being newly painted doesn't preclude it from being that working

Edited December 19, 2022 by DY444

[franciswilliamwebb]

14 hours ago, woodenhead said:

toilet spray,

 

Is there a Railmatch number for that one?😏

[woodenhead]

1 hour ago, franciswilliamwebb said:

 

Is there a Railmatch number for that one?😏

There isn't a number I don't think but I can provide a sample 🤢

[woodenhead]

2 hours ago, franciswilliamwebb said:

 

Is there a Railmatch number for that one?😏

 

1 hour ago, woodenhead said:

There isn't a number I don't think but I can provide a sample 🤢

Gawd how dumb am I today 😆

 

Is there a railmatch number 🤣, I've just got it.

[Davexoc]

5 hours ago, DY444 said:

Indeed, however iirc there was a weekly Derby C&W to Old Oak Common (& vv) working to move stock to/from works for repairs, overhaul etc.  Again iirc this used to run via Market Harborough and Northampton and was electrically worked on the WCML.  Given the siphons in the train, I would suggest there is a good chance it is this working back to OOC.  Main works did smaller repairs on vehicles without always repainting them so some of the vehicles not being newly painted doesn't preclude it from being that working

 

The second one could therefore be one of the Siphons in Enparts use, hence it could be dirty blue or possibly dirty olive green?

What colour is this one?

https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/enparts/e64d9f77

I would say brown compared to the car in the foreground, but I think it is actually olive....

 

As for all this toilet spray talk, just go to Boots, they sell loads of it, if a little pricey.......

Edited December 19, 2022 by Davexoc
link added

[ianmacc]

On 16/12/2022 at 21:01, cctransuk said:

 

Brown livery? What brown livery? BR never used a brown livery on Siphons - or anything else for that matter.

 

Surely you weren't suggesting GWR brown livery?

 

CJI.

Well whatever it was I had a Lima one in that colour. Yes it’s GWR so yes probably not! But if so what is it? It’s way too uniform to be dirt.

[ianmacc]

23 hours ago, Darius43 said:

There’s a challenge for those who like realistic weathering on their models…

 

Cheers

 

Darius

Or.,.,. Just use the GWR liveried Syphon with a tiny bit of Carrs…. 😎

[JeffP]

That would be Carr's s**t?

 

 

Soot of course, stop it😁

[cctransuk]

16 hours ago, ianmacc said:

Well whatever it was I had a Lima one in that colour. Yes it’s GWR so yes probably not! But if so what is it? It’s way too uniform to be dirt.

 

Dirt - when every surface was coated in dirt, to the extent that you could not make out even the outline of the lettering, it WAS uniform.

 

Believe me - I saw plenty of them, and a multitude of other VERY dirty NPCCS back in the day.

 

CJI.

Edited December 20, 2022 by cctransuk

[Anadin Dogwalker]

On 19/12/2022 at 11:26, woodenhead said:

 

Gawd how dumb am I today 😆

 

Is there a railmatch number 🤣, I've just got it.

Number 2 , I presume

[montyburns56]

85032 at Greenholme 1983 by Bill Watson

 

 

[ianmacc]

2 hours ago, montyburns56 said:

85032 at Greenholme 1983 by Bill Watson

 

 

Was reflecting on this thread earlier. 
 

I was 13 in 1989 and grew up in NW England so these ACs were everywhere back then. 
 

How many now? One each of AL1 to AL5 all stuffed and mounted.  Three or so mainline registered 86s. Any 87s? Even the then-brand new 90s have faced inroads. 
 

303s one left, no 304s.

 

I know it’s the same everywhere but still quite sad. 

[Pete the Elaner]

1 hour ago, ianmacc said:

Was reflecting on this thread earlier. 
 

I was 13 in 1989 and grew up in NW England so these ACs were everywhere back then. 
 

How many now? One each of AL1 to AL5 all stuffed and mounted.  Three or so mainline registered 86s. Any 87s? Even the then-brand new 90s have faced inroads. 
 

303s one left, no 304s.

 

I know it’s the same everywhere but still quite sad. 

 

The trouble with preserving AC electrics in an operating condition is power supply. Maintaining OLE is only cost effective for routes which are fairly heavily used. Heritage lines are definitely not.

This leaves main line operation. 1x 86, 1x87, 2x90 & soon 1x89 are plenty to cover excursions & being 110mph, running them with existing services is not too much of a problem.

Any others sadly need to be static exhibits, or hauled up & down a line by diesels, but we have coaching stock for that.

[Dagworth]

15 minutes ago, Pete the Elaner said:

 

The trouble with preserving AC electrics in an operating condition is power supply. Maintaining OLE is only cost effective for routes which are fairly heavily used. Heritage lines are definitely not.

This leaves main line operation. 1x 86, 1x87, 2x90 & soon 1x89 are plenty to cover excursions & being 110mph, running them with existing services is not too much of a problem.

Any others sadly need to be static exhibits, or hauled up & down a line by diesels, but we have coaching stock for that.

Isn't that why us AC freaks build our models, to bring those days back to life?

 

Andi

[ianmacc]

19 hours ago, Pete the Elaner said:

 

The trouble with preserving AC electrics in an operating condition is power supply. Maintaining OLE is only cost effective for routes which are fairly heavily used. Heritage lines are definitely not.

This leaves main line operation. 1x 86, 1x87, 2x90 & soon 1x89 are plenty to cover excursions & being 110mph, running them with existing services is not too much of a problem.

Any others sadly need to be static exhibits, or hauled up & down a line by diesels, but we have coaching stock for that.

Indeed. Aware of the reasons. The chance of getting OLE for heritage lines is as close to zero as possible for the patently obvious reasons of safety! 
 

Is there only 1 86 now? Assuming 259. 101 and 401 retired? Which is the 87? 002? Nice that a couple of 90s are retained in heritage condition. 

[ianmacc]

19 hours ago, Dagworth said:

Isn't that why us AC freaks build our models, to bring those days back to life?

 

Andi

That is exactly why! I think because we have our favourite classes in our conscience and encounter them all the time on our layouts it is easy to forget that in the wide world out there they are a thing of the past…

[Northmoor]

1 hour ago, ianmacc said:

Indeed. Aware of the reasons. The chance of getting OLE for heritage lines is as close to zero as possible for the patently obvious reasons of safety! 
 

Is there only 1 86 now? Assuming 259. 101 and 401 retired? Which is the 87? 002? Nice that a couple of 90s are retained in heritage condition. 

If high voltage OLE is too dangerous for a heritage operation, how come we have preserved electric tramways?

 

Assuming it could be afforded (and even I as an AC fan knows it would be a money pit as an attraction), there is no technical or legal reason why you cannot have a 25kV heritage operation.  You'd just need to demonstrate an acceptable safety case was in place; if you haven't got one, you haven't asked the right person to produce and implement it.

[cctransuk]

28 minutes ago, Northmoor said:

If high voltage OLE is too dangerous for a heritage operation, how come we have preserved electric tramways?

 

Assuming it could be afforded (and even I as an AC fan knows it would be a money pit as an attraction), there is no technical or legal reason why you cannot have a 25kV heritage operation.  You'd just need to demonstrate an acceptable safety case was in place; if you haven't got one, you haven't asked the right person to produce and implement it.

 

I won't spell it out - you know the answer; 25kv AC versus ?00v DC!

 

CJI.

[Davexoc]

50 minutes ago, Northmoor said:

If high voltage OLE is too dangerous for a heritage operation, how come we have preserved electric tramways?

 

Assuming it could be afforded (and even I as an AC fan knows it would be a money pit as an attraction), there is no technical or legal reason why you cannot have a 25kV heritage operation.  You'd just need to demonstrate an acceptable safety case was in place; if you haven't got one, you haven't asked the right person to produce and implement it.

 

Woud probably mean miles of pallisade fencing and a lot of signage which would cost a small fortune, but providing the relevant clearances from structures are available, I can't see why not...

 

19 minutes ago, cctransuk said:

 

I won't spell it out - you know the answer; 25kv AC versus ?00v DC!

 

 

AC/DC it doesn't really matter, they both could kill you. I would say OHLE is a lesser risk than DC on the ground. Not seeing any proliferation of the third/forth rail network.

[djparkins]

On 16/12/2022 at 11:30, proton said:

When enlarged it certainly looks like it, brown is uniform and over the ends, with no blue in sight.

 

In my opinion the first Siphon G is a Diag. 0.62 vehicle in rail blue that has been newly converted for Newspaper traffic, given the date of the photo.  These vehicles were either ETH fitted or piped. Note the plated-over lourves. The white 'Newpapers' branding has yet to be added.

 

The second Siphon G is I believe to Diag. 0.33. As cctransuk says the last livery this vehicle would have carried in non-departmental use would have been BR Maroon [BR Crimson before that] in the 1960s - never brown. Several were repainted in olive grren once they went into departmental use. I would interpret the vehicle to be in highly weathered maroon from the photo. Given the date I doubt that a vehicle painted in olive green in the late 1970s/early-mid1980s would have weathered that much - even given the fact that they were probably never cleaned.

 

DJP

[GordonC]

1 hour ago, Davexoc said:

 

Woud probably mean miles of pallisade fencing and a lot of signage which would cost a small fortune, but providing the relevant clearances from structures are available, I can't see why not...

 

 

AC/DC it doesn't really matter, they both could kill you. I would say OHLE is a lesser risk than DC on the ground. Not seeing any proliferation of the third/forth rail network.

 

I think there probably isn't any interest in stringing up miles of wires on heritage lines. It would be expensive to install and probably a huge pain to do all the risk assessments and get in the way of the current maintenance they do ... and that would be before you get the complaints about spoiling the views of kettles going past. I love electrics, but I'd doubt we'll ever see an electrified heritage line, the only likely way would be if an electrified line was closed with wires/3rd rails in place (and even then Epping-Ongar lifted that).