Nile_Griffith Posted November 28, 2016 Share Posted November 28, 2016 Here goes. On the plus side a thoroughly enjoyable exhibition with some great layouts on show, The Bridge at Remagen being a bit of a favourite as well as that huge German/Belgian one........ Crikey!!!! However the sheer gravity of the amount of curmudgeonly'ness in evidence at this years Warley exhibition has pulled me into it's tractor beam and inspired this rant. Why is it that trying to view any kind of layout or trade stand has become almost a combat sport? OK for the more fit and able bodied exhibition goer this might be a reasonable price to pay for the opportunity to jump into the pool of consumerist hysteria that goes along with the mentality of getting your money's worth out of the price of the admission ticket. However, for the rest of us who visit the show on the basis that it's supposed to be a relaxing and enjoyable day out, taking in the creative hard work of other modellers and availing ourselves of the opportunity to par-ruse some merchandise otherwise unavailable to us. Such gladiatorial reactions to six inches of available space are somewhat infuriating!!!!!! Is there a sign at the ticket office that says "Please Check In all Manners and Sense of Decorum At The Door"?????? Being fair such behaviour is not the conduct of the majority........... but it's bloody close. Maybe the organisers of Warley might like to take a leaf from the book of the SkiPatrols on some of the U.S's more upmarket Ski Slopes. Maybe they might like to instigate an exhibition patrol. That ejects such followers of bad behaviour from the building in two shakes of a station masters flag. AND DON'T START ME ON RUCKSACKS!!!!!!!!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Phil Parker Posted November 28, 2016 Administrators Share Posted November 28, 2016 All shows are a bit like this. Lots of people jostling to see something - either layout or trade stand. Quite a few seem to have abandonded any sort of manners a long while ago. They get into a frenzy of excitement at the sight of a new toy available for sale and can't control themselves. Those that anoy me the most are the ones who walk up to me when I'm talking to someone from behind my display and imediatly launch into a "conversation". They can't comprehend that there is anyone else in the world other than them, and most get a bit sniffy when I ignore them to carry on the conversation I was having. Sadly, the other person tends to feel awkward and make an early exit leaving me with the idiot. I've started to make a point of shoving rucksucks not being carried by the top handle when in crowds. They are fair game. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
grahame Posted November 28, 2016 Share Posted November 28, 2016 I've started to make a point of shoving rucksucks not being carried by the top handle when in crowds. They are fair game. Yes, of course - I agree. Nothing inherently wrong in wearing a rucksack, but it is those who don't seem to realise what they have on their back, that it takes up more room than their usual floor space, and are inconsiderate in using it to barge their way through crowds. If you shove the rucksack to one side it tends to spin the wearer around meaning they are facing the wrong direction. Hopefully they then become aware that they are sporting a whacking great lumpy appendage on their back and learn to take a little more care in future. G. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wombatofludham Posted November 28, 2016 Share Posted November 28, 2016 Here goes. On the plus side a thoroughly enjoyable exhibition with some great layouts on show, The Bridge at Remagen being a bit of a favourite as well as that huge German/Belgian one........ Crikey!!!! However the sheer gravity of the amount of curmudgeonly'ness in evidence at this years Warley exhibition has pulled me into it's tractor beam and inspired this rant. Why is it that trying to view any kind of layout or trade stand has become almost a combat sport? OK for the more fit and able bodied exhibition goer this might be a reasonable price to pay for the opportunity to jump into the pool of consumerist hysteria that goes along with the mentality of getting your money's worth out of the price of the admission ticket. However, for the rest of us who visit the show on the basis that it's supposed to be a relaxing and enjoyable day out, taking in the creative hard work of other modellers and availing ourselves of the opportunity to par-ruse some merchandise otherwise unavailable to us. Such gladiatorial reactions to six inches of available space are somewhat infuriating!!!!!! Is there a sign at the ticket office that says "Please Check In all Manners and Sense of Decorum At The Door"?????? Being fair such behaviour is not the conduct of the majority........... but it's bloody close. Maybe the organisers of Warley might like to take a leaf from the book of the SkiPatrols on some of the U.S's more upmarket Ski Slopes. Maybe they might like to instigate an exhibition patrol. That ejects such followers of bad behaviour from the building in two shakes of a station masters flag. AND DON'T START ME ON RUCKSACKS!!!!!!!!! Why I stopped going a while back. Being the size I am I tended not to have much problem with the ignorant pond-sludge barging into me as I suspect they might have been worried I might barge back with a well aimed knee to the happy-sacks (not that I would of course) but the whole atmosphere wasn't pleasant and if you add in a few occasions when England has been cut off from civilisation by weather events on the road from Fairbourne to the other side of the Dyke and it frankly wasn't worth the trouble. On a serious note, I wonder if the Warley guys might put in a notice in their show guide and make occasional reminders over the PA to rucksack wearers and the like? It shouldn't be necessary to treat the audience like simple minded children but if they insist in behaving like children, perhaps sadly it might be necessary after all? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Steven B Posted November 28, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 28, 2016 It's not the rucksacks (or prams, walking sticks, wheel-chairs, mobility scooters or tripods) that are the problem but the people using them, and in some cases other people around them not looking where they're going. Go to one of the big outdoor/camping shows at the NEC and you'll see plenty of rucksacs and remarkably few incidents involving them. Many folk aren't used to carrying on in busy places and forget that they're suddenly 12 inches wider than they were when they got up (any it's nothing to do with the fry-up they had for breakfast). Happy modelling. Steven B. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clearwater Posted November 28, 2016 Share Posted November 28, 2016 I don't think it was helped this year by the disappearance of he convenient cloakroom by the entrance... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium jamie92208 Posted November 28, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 28, 2016 To be fair, I saw very little poor behaviour this weekend but was behind a layout a lot of the time. There were however several announcements about the use of flash for photography reminding people to ask before using flash. That seemed to work well until later on on Sunday afternoon when I was suddenly dazzled by a flash. I remonstrated with the photographer who was wearing a T shirt identifying her as being from a magazine. She wandered away seeming to be a bit miffed at being asked to obey the rules that all others had obeyed during the weekend. Jamie Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
howardpidd Posted November 28, 2016 Share Posted November 28, 2016 Warley especially on the Saturday was simply awful, and it was all down to the loutish behavior of my fellow modelers I'm afraid. I've been attending Warley for many many years now and it seems to get worse every year. The annual scrum around the Bachmann stand in search of bargains just about sums up the dog eat dog, must get to the front at any cost mentality of many. Moving the Bachman sales stand to a far distant corner of the hall only shifted the problem. Rucksacks are a constant annoyance and as a health and safety hazard I for one can't see why they aren't prohibited. But it is the sheer rudeness and inconsiderate way many act who are old enough to know better that really takes the edge off visiting this great show. As an advanced ticket holder I was there for the 9.15am scramble as the doors opened. The atmosphere was worse than at many a football match, and I attend them frequently with my sons, what with the NEC staff bellowing orders at the top of their voices and strutting around issuing orders and surging of the crowd it did feel rather unsafe and threatening, not the best start to what is supposed to be an enjoyable day out. For goodness sake just try and keep a sense of perspective - it's a hobby at the end of the day, not a matter of life and death! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold chris p bacon Posted November 28, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 28, 2016 Most people are obliging and take turns to shuffle forward but yesterday while watching Grantham I moved aside so a wheelchair user could see clearer and a 70+ stepped into the space from nowhere I said "I've just moved to enable him to see" (motioning to towards the person in the chair) and the 70+ said "his tough luck" and turned away. I started to turn him around to face me but the person in the chair pulled my leg and after said he wasn't worth the aggro so we both moved to other layouts. The only poor manners I saw in the day. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
junior_7178 Posted November 28, 2016 Share Posted November 28, 2016 Much BO around? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Legend Posted November 28, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 28, 2016 It's the group of friends who decide to congregate on the narrowest passageway to have a good wee chatter. Not at Warley this weekend but I did get to Falkirk where it was much in evidence. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodenhead Posted November 28, 2016 Share Posted November 28, 2016 I'll apologise now for my rucksack at Warley, generally I don't have one in such confined spaces but needs must - I was using the 4 hours commute there and back to catch up on work and the rucksack is a laptop bag. I did feel like a HGV with it and would have preferred to travel lighter - which I will again next year. I didn't clonk anyone with it but I was very conscious I had to reverse out of viewing slots and stand straight so I wasn't denying others a view of the layouts. Wasn't even good for holding purchases as it isn't massive and it was full of work stuff and a coat so by the end I had carrier bags too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParkeNd Posted November 28, 2016 Share Posted November 28, 2016 The Classic Car show a couple of weeks ago at the NEC was pleasantly "rucksack free" so they don't seem to go with the geography. They seem to me to appeal to model train enthusiasts for some reason I can't comprehend - is it that they will be stuffed with guilty purchases and smuggled unseen past SWMBO? If made a point of the rucksack boys get very defensive so we shall have to watch our step. As for me - I have stopped going to the Warley Show because of them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodenhead Posted November 28, 2016 Share Posted November 28, 2016 It's the group of friends who decide to congregate on the narrowest passageway to have a good wee chatter. Not at Warley this weekend but I did get to Falkirk where it was much in evidence. There were a few like that in front of a couple of a layouts and stall. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamesg Posted November 28, 2016 Share Posted November 28, 2016 At crowded events like this, it's helpful for rucksacks to be carried by hand. I took a laptop/messenger style bag to avoid accidentally hitting anyone/thing. Museums (such as the Ashmolean) often insist that rucksacks are carried by the handle, and they aren't nearly as crowded as Warley. As for camera flash - I wish manufacturers wouldn't include it in the camera, but only manufacture external flash units. I've never taken a photograph of a model railway that would have been improved by using a flash. The Bachmann stand - wasn't especially interesting. Or maybe I didn't get near enough to the front to spot any bargains. Much more valuable was meeting traders I haven't encountered before and learning about new products. Everyone I spoke to was very polite and informative, but understandably, not all traders or layout operators will have the time to talk at length at such a busy show. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nile_Griffith Posted November 28, 2016 Author Share Posted November 28, 2016 Much BO around? Yes. It's been mentioned on previous visits over the years by 'er indoors, that just possibly it might be a good idea to attract sponsorship from someone like "Right Guard" or one of the soap manufacturers. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium t-b-g Posted November 28, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 28, 2016 If you have a layout of a certain size, then you can get a certain number of people along the viewings side(s). If you put it in a show where the attendance is, say, 20,000 compared to a show with maybe 2,000 then unless the show is 10 times bigger (so that would be 200 layouts instead of 20) then there will be more people in front of the layout at any time. The best layouts will attract the biggest crowds and on my most recent trip to Warley show, as a guest operator on Gresley Beat, we had crowds around 5 or 6 deep for many hours. It gets very frustrating trying to get to see what you want to see and being patient doesn't help if you want to get round the whole show and see everything as there is so much to see and waiting 15 minutes to see each layout or trade stand takes a big chunk out of the day. So people get grumpy and start pushing in. I am not condoning such behaviour but I can perhaps understand why some folk get that way. I have been a couple of times as a paying punter but no more. Too big, too many people and I much prefer the smaller, local or specialist shows where the numbers are a fraction of Warley but you can take your time, look at things for more than a few seconds, where you can see friends and chat without causing a major blockage to the flow of people. Such carrying on isn't new and everybody has a choice as to whether it is something that they are willing to put up with to see such a big and significant exhibition. But with the way modern behavioural standards are going, I don't expect that things will be any better next year. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crantock Posted November 28, 2016 Share Posted November 28, 2016 Not sure why we need a separate thread for this and there's not much new. On rucksacks, I have a small innocuous harmless non-rigid version. Be honest show managers will want people to have something to keep their purchases in. The big but was that for the first time ever my rucksack did become a nuisance because I stuffed my anorak into it. The point being that the temperature gradient from last weekend in November outside to NEC indoors was so steep people strip off and stuff rucksacks. I think that is part of the Warley problem. Warley did their bit with nice wide corridors. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phill Dyson (onslaught832) Posted November 28, 2016 Share Posted November 28, 2016 Simple solution was to go to Warley on Sunday.....I had no problems viewing any layouts or stands then Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
howardpidd Posted November 28, 2016 Share Posted November 28, 2016 Crantock questions the need for a separate thread on this and says there's not much new. That's half the problem! These issues continue to cause exhibition goers inconvenience year on year and aren't tackled properly. It's time we stopped accepting the unacceptable. Attending an exhibition is an expensive business these days and I don't see whay my day out (two in the case of Warley should be spoiled because of the inconsiderate behavior of others. I use a carrier bag for my purchasers and manage quite well without a rucksack. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Phil Parker Posted November 28, 2016 Administrators Share Posted November 28, 2016 Crantock questions the need for a separate thread on this and says there's not much new. That's half the problem! These issues continue to cause exhibition goers inconvenience year on year and aren't tackled properly. It's time we stopped accepting the unacceptable. Attending an exhibition is an expensive business these days and I don't see whay my day out (two in the case of Warley should be spoiled because of the inconsiderate behavior of others. I use a carrier bag for my purchasers and manage quite well without a rucksack. And your solution for tackling the problem is? If it involves exhibition organisers, who are by and large unpaid, acting as policemen dishing out summary justice to people who have broken some "rule" then you might as well start a new thread ranting about heavy handed officialdom now. We'd never agree a set of rules for a start and then those affected by them would demand redress. You can also be the first to caution the big fat bloke carrying a rucksack badly in a crowd who lamps you when you try. Sadly, this is down to individuals deciding to behave in a civilised manner. That's not likely to happen any time soon. Phil (Who has a rucksack and carries it by the handle on top in crowds. Much easier to put things in and no more trouble than a carrier bag.) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted November 28, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 28, 2016 I didn't go this year and in one respect i was quite glad to miss the bunfight that seems to go with the crowds at Warley. Oddly I don't tend to find the same, except on a minor scale, at other exhibitions - there will always be lots of people trying to see the popular layouts but generally it's people taking turns and working along gradually rather than elbows out and barging in. Equally some areas can get crowded at any show, again, generally it usually seems to be fairly cheerful and not accompanied by some major imperative to push everybody aside. So I can but conclude the 'problem' with Warley is that it is so big and attracts such large numbers of visitors so even if the percentage of awkward characters is no different there will be more of them. Train times mean that I never buy an early entry ticket and that I tend to arrive as the booking office queues are flowing well and then I just walk in - not even a queue at the doors even though I might lose as much as 20 minutes of 'being at the show'. As far as photography is concerned I fail - in some respects - to see the point of it. Many layouts nowadays can be seen somewhere on the 'net and while some scenes are obviously worth capturing for interest or inspiration it's a right game when your elbows are being shoved in several different directions. So being very blunt if there continues to be a problem with 'rude' and careless photographers why not just ban them apart from the professionals working for the modelling media etc? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Vecchio Posted November 28, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 28, 2016 First we are environment-friendly and come by train - second we want to save catering money by carrying a pack- lunch and third we should carry all stuff we want to eat and drink and which we later replace by a kilo of brass, plastic, granite and electronics (yes, bought some ballast and found unfortunately the Severn stand...) in a bag which drags down our arms until we look like monkeys? I am one of the bad rucksack people and yes - as it was cold in the morning and as I am not as tough as the island born people (In Austria the winter temperatures are lower but we dress ourselves warmer) I had to wear a heavy jacket - and later I did put my jacket into the rucksack. Also my back is not in super condition - so the best is to load whatever it is equally between the shoulders. If I wouldn't have had my hands free you wouldn't be able to enjoy my photos (which some of you did, never got so many likes before on a weekend... thanks for that) And I noticed that several people run into my rucksack while I was completely static - they probably had a different experience and think that I bashed my rucksack into their way... Don't take that too serious what I was writing above - but I think a rucksack is the only useful bag to carry to such an event. Vecchio Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
howardpidd Posted November 28, 2016 Share Posted November 28, 2016 And your solution for tackling the problem is? If it involves exhibition organisers, who are by and large unpaid, acting as policemen dishing out summary justice to people who have broken some "rule" then you might as well start a new thread ranting about heavy handed officialdom now. We'd never agree a set of rules for a start and then those affected by them would demand redress. You can also be the first to caution the big fat bloke carrying a rucksack badly in a crowd who lamps you when you try. Sadly, this is down to individuals deciding to behave in a civilised manner. That's not likely to happen any time soon. Phil (Who has a rucksack and carries it by the handle on top in crowds. Much easier to put things in and no more trouble than a carrier bag.) So lets all accept loutish behavior as the norm. And woe betide anyone who complains about it. That's it,no more to be said! Rucksacks Rule OK? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Barry O Posted November 28, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 28, 2016 Much BO around? Yes I was there all weekend.... but actually no, apart from the smell of smokers who seem unable to realise how much their clothes can smell of tobacco. The Ruck Sack concern is not confined to Warley or the NEC nor is, unfortunately, the growing lack of manners across all of the UK. Some people wear their ruck sacks on their chest - at least they realise when they bump into someone or something. The Club can't police the wearing of ruck sacks, nor can it police the manners of attendees - the request not to use flash photography was in the show guide on several pages, and it was broadcast as well but some people decided it didn't apply to them. Baz (O) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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