Warley Show. Is It A Combat Sport? Or "Rucksacks! Just Say No!"

[Natalie]

Never mind rucksacks etc, what I find more concerning is that on Saturday afternoon an elderly gentleman collapsed by the Hornby stand and fell to the floor sufficiently to cut his eye brow, chin and knock himself unconscious as well as have a respiratory arrest. As I was about 20 ft away and witnessed the whole thing I went straight to him and dealt with him. Despite me shouting very loudly that this man had arrested and I needed urgent assistance here- only the NEC staff responded. No show goer or trader nearby bothered- they seemed to be content to leave me to it.

 

Fortunately my interventions were successful but there was one or two that seem to think that this was a show put on for their benefit- until swiftly told where to go by the NEC staff who did their best to shield everything from view.

 

So essentially an elderly man (not that age or gender is important) collapses in sight of at least 100 or so people and only 1 bothers to respond. I don't expect a full medical response but surely going up to check if someone is ok and if not summonsing assistance by shouting loudly - or if on your own by 999? What a disgusting 'society' we appear to have become.

 

Fortunately the gentleman concerned had recovered sufficiently to walk to the ambulance (where some people outside attempted to film this) and should be OK. Thanks to the NEC staff that assisted me and the gentleman and the professionalism, care and support they they provided

[Kelly]

Unfortunately I've come to expect poor manners from a subset of attendees of the larger shows (Warley is not unique in this way). Attending as I do on a mobility scooter (thankfully a small one that is fairly manoeuvrable compared to the ones offered by the NEC mobility hire), getting near some traders and layouts is often nigh on impossible at such shows until later in the day. A number of layouts I didn't get chance to see much of for this reason, or stands.

 

Thankfully backpacks weren't a problem this time, no black eyes from someone inadvertently turning around too fast with a rucksack on their back. But there were a few cases where I couldn't get near enough to a layout, and on getting off the scooter to have a better look almost got barged off my feet (it didn't help that I left my walking stick on the roof of my car in Coventry station car park!) by someone being wholly inconsiderate.

 

Saturday was an entirely different case as I only left the DEMU stand once the entire day to get the epoxy glue off my hands after a tube leaked. Was too busy to be able to leave (or I was too intent on what I was doing) fielding questions about the society (and specifically Update).

[Barry O]

And if you're still reading and haven't assumed that I'm "having a go" at the organising club (which I'm not), one obvious problem with aiming a show at a certain demographic is if their attendance radically drops off then the show might become unattainable, and suddenly being in a comfortable position where whatever you do attracts 20 something thousand people becomes a self-inflicted decline as costs are cut, leading to a further drop in attendance. You see the same thing at village hall/school shows that seem to attract more families, and if they didn't aim themselves at that level then they too wouldn't be viable.

298, obviously you know about demographic targeting. If you attended the show you would have noticed the busy Junior Modellers corner as well as layouts built and operated by juniors (one of whom is 7).

Baz

[APOLLO]

Maybe we should all sing this song !!

 

 

Brit15

[Andy Y]

Never mind rucksacks etc, what I find more concerning is that on Saturday afternoon an elderly gentleman collapsed by the Hornby stand and fell to the floor sufficiently to cut his eye brow, chin and knock himself unconscious as well as have a respiratory arrest. As I was about 20 ft away and witnessed the whole thing I went straight to him and dealt with him. Despite me shouting very loudly that this man had arrested and I needed urgent assistance here- only the NEC staff responded. No show goer or trader nearby bothered- they seemed to be content to leave me to it.

 

 

I was a little further away and headed straight over, by that time you were there with two other people. I asked if an emergency call was needed and was told it had been done. I am not qualified as a first-aider so could offer nothing else of practical value but it's unfair to claim no-one else was bothered. The NEC staff were excellent though.

 

I see Phil has failed to answer either of my quite easy questions, namely-

Why is okay for you to assault people by pushing them but not okay for them to retaliate/protect their children

and

What would you do if somebody assaulted your children for no apparent reason in front of you.

 

Maybe they werent so easy after all!

 

I know Phil well enough to say that he wouldn't be going around shoving anyone unprovoked.

[Nearholmer]

Apollo,

 

Mountain bikes in the Warley show; blooming marvellous idea!!!

 

Should start a few more fights. Yeah!! Bundle!!!

 

K

[bbishop]

Never mind rucksacks etc, what I find more concerning is that on Saturday afternoon an elderly gentleman collapsed by the Hornby stand and fell to the floor sufficiently to cut his eye brow, chin and knock himself unconscious as well as have a respiratory arrest. As I was about 20 ft away and witnessed the whole thing I went straight to him and dealt with him. Despite me shouting very loudly that this man had arrested and I needed urgent assistance here- only the NEC staff responded. No show goer or trader nearby bothered- they seemed to be content to leave me to it.

 

Fortunately my interventions were successful but there was one or two that seem to think that this was a show put on for their benefit- until swiftly told where to go by the NEC staff who did their best to shield everything from view.

 

So essentially an elderly man (not that age or gender is important) collapses in sight of at least 100 or so people and only 1 bothers to respond. I don't expect a full medical response but surely going up to check if someone is ok and if not summonsing assistance by shouting loudly - or if on your own by 999? What a disgusting 'society' we appear to have become.

 

Fortunately the gentleman concerned had recovered sufficiently to walk to the ambulance (where some people outside attempted to film this) and should be OK. Thanks to the NEC staff that assisted me and the gentleman and the professionalism, care and support they they provided

 

So, I was wearing a Community First Responder pin on my shirt. and there were four people on my layout with "keep alive" skills.

 

Bill

[rab]

I've never been to the Warley exhibition.

I had thought of going the last 2 years

but other things got in the way.

Having read through this thread,

I don't think I'll bother.

It seems to me that rather than

being an enjoyable day out,

it brings out the worst in people.

Not the sort of event I want to be associated with,

[Chris M]

This has all gone on a bit and I can't be bothered to read all of it.

 

I was at Warley both days and didn't have any problems with rucksacks or smells. Sunday especially is very easy to move around and see layouts.

I have been to other shows this year which have been more unpleasantly crowded due to narrow gangways - the great electric train show on the Saturday at Gaydon being one that comes to mind.

 

Perhaps the best thing that can be done is for all model railway magazines and forums to clearly state some basics of reasonable behavior at exhibitions. Just a simple code of behavior such as - have a shower and clean clothes on the day of the show, where a layout has a big crowd around it hold your rucksack in your hand rather than on your back, always be considerate of others.

[Jinty3f]

I went straight to him and dealt with him.

Respect and kudos for your actions in coming to this man's aid. However it is just as well he couldn't have been aware of your avatar here, it might have made him a bit worried!

[stewartingram]

Why don't these self appointed bigots on here get a life and enjoy themselves instead of moaning?

I go to Warley every year, firstly for the trade presence. Not necessarily to buy from box shifters, but to see products 1st hand, and to browse the small suppliers. The layouts are a (very welcome) bonus, but I think it is true to say they are often chosen because of earlier appearences elsewhere. So if I don't get the best view at Warley, chances are I have seen them better elsewhere.  As a (big​) massive show, I expect crowds, and would like others to be as tolerant of that as I am, but sadly human behaviour says not all do. So I shrug my shoulders and get on with it. I enjoy the show.

And for the record, I take a rucksack. It is normally on my back - that is what they are made for, much easier to carry that way. If I'm looking at a stand, handling goods, how can I hold a bag as well? I'm not a greenie, but surely we should be getting away from plastic bags. Why do I take a rucksack? Various reasons. I'm diabetic, well under control because I take it seriously. My medication, and importantly, food, is carried with me. I come by public transport. I'm a tight grumpy old git who won't pay rip-off prices for junk food in the hall. I put my purchases in the bag. I sometimes have an SLR with me, not necessarily for the layouts (though I usually take a record pic of the locos in the hall) but for the journey from home. I wear suitable clothing for the journey, which may need putting in the bag during the show. (Sometimes I have a small wheeled suitcase too). I look out for others, try to be polite, apologise for the occasional hiccup. But do others? And I shall continue to bring my rucksack, and possibly my case. I will remain polite. So put up with it. 

Get a life you moaning so-and-sos.

 

Stewart

[298]

298, obviously you know about demographic targeting. If you attended the show you would have noticed the busy Junior Modellers corner as well as layouts built and operated by juniors (one of whom is 7).

Baz

 

If I was acting in a professional capacity, the inclusion of such exhibits would more likely to be attributed to the sheer size of the show instead of appealing to a targeted audience, just in the same way that I'd expect a weathering demonstration to appear at a different rate among some shows, but not all. A more family friendly show like ones I am picturing is more likely to advertise locally and instantly reaches out to several hundred families if it is held at a school, I doubt very much that any but a tiny proportion of visitors to Warley were there because a child had specifically asked to be taken. 

[Waverley West]

I was there both days on Bleach Green and the Sunday was definitely quieter and more relaxed, so I'd recommend going on the Sunday if possible.

 

Whenever I wandered around the hall during my breaks, I must admit I only encountered politeness and people generally seemed to be prepared to wait patiently for a suitable space to move into in order to view a layout. Bleach Green seemed to be very popular and although the onlookers were often two or three depth for much of the day, there seemed to be only camaraderie and a relaxed attitude. Maybe I/we were just lucky but I think it only fair to mention that it wasn't all a scrum. There were plenty of smaller traders and although I ended up buying a couple of bags worth of stuff, it was all those useful little detailing parts/consumables from non-box shifters that are not so easy to get elsewhere.

 

As a visitor to exhibitions, I often carry a rucksack, as I find it far more convenient and comfortable than plastic bags with handles that dig into your fingers. With a little care and the odd quick apology or thank you, even if it's not really necessary, I think it's perfectly possible to co-exist happily with fellow modellers at a busy exhibition, so I don't think it's fair to write people off as a "rucksack wearer". As in every walk of life, there are good 'uns and there are bad 'uns.

[grahame]

Why do I take a rucksack? Various reasons. I'm diabetic, well under control because I take it seriously. My medication, and importantly, food, is carried with me. I come by public transport. I'm a tight grumpy old git who won't pay rip-off prices for junk food in the hall. I put my purchases in the bag. I sometimes have an SLR with me, not necessarily for the layouts (though I usually take a record pic of the locos in the hall) but for the journey from home. I wear suitable clothing for the journey, which may need putting in the bag during the show. (Sometimes I have a small wheeled suitcase too). I look out for others, try to be polite, apologise for the occasional hiccup. But do others? And I shall continue to bring my rucksack, and possibly my case. I will remain polite. So put up with it. 

Get a life you moaning so-and-sos.

 

 

Odd. I too am diabetic and went by public transport, but I don't need a rucksack for my medication, food and camera. And I have no problem holding a carrier bag while browsing stands and viewing layouts (even though I now also need a walking stick), or leaving a coat in the cloakroom if necessary (although I checked the weather before travelling and realising, that with the predicted temperature and slim chance of rain plus being on trains and using a covered walkway to get the hall, I wouldn't need excessive winter wear).

 

But I'm pleased that you will remain polite even if you junk yourself up with unnecessary (IMO) encumbrances, although telling people to 'get a life you moaning so-and-sos' doesn't strike me as particularly polite.

 

G.

[Grasshopper John]

Why don't these self appointed bigots on here get a life and enjoy themselves instead of moaning?

I go to Warley every year, firstly for the trade presence. Not necessarily to buy from box shifters, but to see products 1st hand, and to browse the small suppliers. The layouts are a (very welcome) bonus, but I think it is true to say they are often chosen because of earlier appearences elsewhere. So if I don't get the best view at Warley, chances are I have seen them better elsewhere.  As a (big​) massive show, I expect crowds, and would like others to be as tolerant of that as I am, but sadly human behaviour says not all do. So I shrug my shoulders and get on with it. I enjoy the show.

And for the record, I take a rucksack. It is normally on my back - that is what they are made for, much easier to carry that way. If I'm looking at a stand, handling goods, how can I hold a bag as well? I'm not a greenie, but surely we should be getting away from plastic bags. Why do I take a rucksack? Various reasons. I'm diabetic, well under control because I take it seriously. My medication, and importantly, food, is carried with me. I come by public transport. I'm a tight grumpy old git who won't pay rip-off prices for junk food in the hall. I put my purchases in the bag. I sometimes have an SLR with me, not necessarily for the layouts (though I usually take a record pic of the locos in the hall) but for the journey from home. I wear suitable clothing for the journey, which may need putting in the bag during the show. (Sometimes I have a small wheeled suitcase too). I look out for others, try to be polite, apologise for the occasional hiccup. But do others? And I shall continue to bring my rucksack, and possibly my case. I will remain polite. So put up with it. 

Get a life you moaning so-and-sos.

 

Stewart

Cripes Stewart, I hope I don't bump into you if your carrying a Self Loading Rifle

[chris p bacon]

If I was acting in a professional capacity, the inclusion of such exhibits would more likely to be attributed to the sheer size of the show instead of appealing to a targeted audience, just in the same way that I'd expect a weathering demonstration to appear at a different rate among some shows, but not all. A more family friendly show like ones I am picturing is more likely to advertise locally and instantly reaches out to several hundred families if it is held at a school, I doubt very much that any but a tiny proportion of visitors to Warley were there because a child had specifically asked to be taken. 

I'm guessing you don't organise a local exhibition.

[Reorte]

I have to say I didn't notice much in the way of shoving and impolite behaviour. I was there on Saturday, and it was busy (which in some ways I quite like, the different scale to other shows is a bit of the appeal and since I generally dislike and avoid large and busy perhaps I just need the occasional dose of it), which made getting around a little tricky at times. People were trying to find spots to nudge in and see or shuffle out of each others' way to get past, but not in any way I'd regard as impolite. It leaves me worrying that perhaps I am one of those impolite people without realising it (I try to keep that for online arguments!), or whether being 6'3" just means I'm less likely to get pushed.

[298]

I'm guessing you don't organise a local exhibition.

What makes you think that...?

[Arthur]

I was a little further away and headed straight over, by that time you were there with two other people. I asked if an emergency call was needed and was told it had been done. I am not qualified as a first-aider so could offer nothing else of practical value but it's unfair to claim no-one else was bothered. The NEC staff were excellent though.

 .

Indeed, I was talking to Andy when that happened. I didn't initially respond because, over my left shoulder, I heard a thump, saw the back of the Hornby stand shake and thought something had fallen inside the stand. Andy did see the chap fall and when he realised he wasn't getting up quickly moved over, I followed and saw the poor guy on the deck but already a number of people, clearly competent, were attending to him.

 

It was a matter of seconds, Andy asked about calling an ambulance, we couldn't add anything more. The chap was soon helped to a chair, bleeding heavily from his chin but clearly conscious, we then moved away, a crowd wasn't going to help.

 

.

[The Stationmaster]

Every year I go to Warley on the Saturday (because there happens to be a reliable(ish) train service on that day with various alternatives if needed) and come away saying I'll never go again, it's too crowded, there are too many rude people and so on.

 

This year I didn't go (not that I didn't want to - there were other reasons) and it is interesting to analyse what I missed - 

 

Most importantly of all I missed meeting and chatting to people - some justs names on here, and others from herealready met elsewhere, plus some who never come near RMweb - and many of whom I don't see at other exhibitions.

Secondly I miss the 'shopping' opportunity - partly because it's ideal just before Christmas and things can be handed to other family members to give to me especially if they are not readily obtainable from more local sources.

Third I miss fighting my way to see some layouts I'd really like to see that I haven't seen elsewhere.

Fourth I miss the opportunity of seeing (not necessarily buying) items from the trade (various) I stand minimal chance of seeing elsewhere.

 

And I really have missed all of those positive things this year.

I have also missed, thankfully, the large and at times incredibly rude, crowds of people.

I've missed the occasional collisions with rucksacks (although giving them a good shove back to get them into a  spin is fun - you hit me mate through your stupidity and selfishness and it's the least you deserve is my view on the more selfish of those who wear them).

 

And I miss the amazingly filthy toilets - which either say something very much less than complimentary about those misusing them or something about the hygiene standards of the NEC.  Or is it a symptom of an ageing customer base who are losing the ability to aim straight?

 

When I have gone I carry a laptop bag as it's handy and capacious and anything else purchased goes into carrier bags - the laptop bag is more secure than my usual shoulder bag and doesn't get in the way of others as I move around and although really inadequate for sandwiches I can at least carry my various pills in safety.  I eat there and while some of the stuff is a tad pricey some of it I have increasingly found is surprisingly good; I even got a half decent cuppa last year (much to my surprise).  My major moan is with the lack of room on trains to and fro and I can think of one or two things XC could do to improve things for me on such busy weekend trains but I've no doubt some others would not be at all happy with my ideas so I won't start yet another ruckus.

[PaulCheffus]

But according to some they are not the biggest problem, that accolade is reserved for rucksack wearers whether adult or children who, it seems, are fair game to push around simply because they are wearing a rucksack, at no point (within the first 70 odd posts) did he mentioned being knocked (by accident) by anyone wearing a rucksack.

 

I find that quite abhorrent and would protect myself and my children to the best of my ability, some seem to think that is wrong, maybe they shouldnt threaten to push people and their children around in the first place!

 

You might question whether deliberately pushing people around is the right response if they have accidentally bumped into you?

 

But me saying I will protect my children and 're-arrange the teeth' of somebody who has just assaulted my child is wrong, well tough, dont deliberately assault peoples kids (or the adults themselves) if you dont want the same back!

 

Anything wrong with that?

Hi

 

Yes its called assault. The correct process would be to involve the Police and not to retaliate yourself. Two wrongs do not make a right.

 

Cheers

 

Paul

[Colin_McLeod]

Question for sensitive rucksack wearers:

 

Would you rather be pushed or spun round?

[Andy Y]

 

And I miss the amazingly filthy toilets - which either say something very much less than complimentary about those misusing them or something about the hygiene standards of the NEC.  Or is it a symptom of an ageing customer base who are losing the ability to aim straight?

 

 

They were perfectly OK late on Friday evening but by 10.30 on the Saturday morning it was a fetid gauntlet to run. I know it's an unsavoury subject but it ain't a nice experience.

[Nearholmer]

Having had a good laugh through this topic, can I spend a couple of minutes in earnest mode?

 

There are things that could be done to make mega-exhibitions like Warley a better 'customer experience', and my guess is that, if they were wholly commercial exercises, those things would be done.

 

Where I think it gets tough is that this is half way between a commercial and a hobby thing, so that exhibition managers can choose layouts, and probably suggest forms of layouts that might work well in an exhibition setting, but they can't really dictate forms of layouts.

 

Maybe what could be done is to have a discussion of what would work as an exhibition layout, taking full account of the need to give as many people as much "view for their buck" in a short time as possible. Ideas that I think are worth considering include: layouts designed to be viewed from all faces, rather than from "the front"; large degree of automation to reduce stress on operators, perhaps changing their role to be primarily around talking with people in the audience; designing to give fixed duration "shows", maybe about twenty minutes of interesting operation, followed by five minutes for the audience to "churn".

 

The result would be radically different from what we are used to, and it might not be quite the 'salon of craft', but perhaps that needs separate 'zones within a show' to be made pleasant, and maybe those zones need timed entry tickets (think booking your slot on the big ride at Disneyland).

 

In fact, Disneyland has a stack to teach us about separating the 'core experience' into managed chunks, and using good-quality eateries and shopping spaces to act as 'attendee creches' .......

 

I'm not posing theee ideas for all MR exhibitions, and certainly not for niche specialist events, only the real biggies.

[caradoc]

Cripes Stewart, I hope I don't bump into you if your carrying a Self Loading Rifle

 

That's what I should have brought in my rucksack ! Seriously however, the rucksack I wore is small; Of its 3 compartments, one holds pocket timetables, one holds (just about) A4 size items, and the largest takes an OO Scale Class 40 (other loco types are available). I find it to be far and away the easiest way to carry stuff while leaving both hands free for other things; Browsing books, and making sure my aim is true in the toliets, to name but two. BTW, it is very awkward maintaining aim, and indeed washing hands afterwards, if you are clutching carrier bags (and I certainly would not put anything down on the floor in the NEC toilets). 

 

In some ways Warley is a victim of its own success; As was mentioned earlier the layouts have the same finite amount of viewing space as they would at any exhibition, but at Warley there are far more people trying to see them. Next year I might try Sunday; I went on Saturday this year mainly because of the 'better' train service, with more alternatives if things go wrong, as indeed they did when my Oxford-Birmingham rain was cancelled.  

 

At the end of the day we all go to Warley to indulge our passion for model railways, and I would hope that we all know how to behave politely and without spoiling other's enjoyment of the day.