SECR P Class 0-6-0T in OO Gauge from Hattons

[Andy Hayter]

  Like you, I am tempted by eras that existed before I was born but have so far resisted.

 

 

 

Resistance is futile.  

[Edwardian]

Aha I've come very close to giving in to an LBSC E4. I probably will eventually, it doesn't look like they're going to sell out any time soon. My first cab ride was in the Bluebell's E4 when I was in their 9F club about 12 years ago, been attached to the class ever since, plus I'm a Brighton boy and through family  research I've discovered quite a few distant cousins who lived in Lewes worked for the LBSCR.  Once I've exhausted all my 1940s Southern purchases that'll probably be next aha, although if model railway company trends keep going in this direction I'm not going to run out of things to buy any time soon

 

Anyway bit of a topic drift there, I'm curious , everyone seems to agreen the P was pretty rubbish in terms of performance, how did they last so long? One would have thought the SR would have got rid of them, let alone BR aha.

 

I know what you mean.  I am the other way around. I quite like the idea of a wartime Southern line skirting the wooded dispersal track of a Battle of Britain fighter station, and on past a few of the Few imbibing at the Jackdaw.

 

Trouble is, I seem perpetually stuck before August 1914.  Too much of interest in the Edwardian scene!

 

Recreating and running the odd out of period train is not a bad way of having some cake and eating it.

 

PS: The Umber E4 is simply a really lovely model. Treat yourself.

Edited September 23, 2017 by Edwardian

[adb968008]

Hattons have posted the order in which P class are selling the most.

Top 3 spots are occupied by Bluebell engines, SECR 178 in first place then 323 in Bluebell blue and 31027 in BR.

Next it is an SR green engine 325, then BR 31323 (bluebell loco), and again SR 1555.

In 7th SECR grey, a surprise really. Followed by Primrose in Bluebell early 1960s special livery, followed by 1558 in sunshine lettering (which I would thought would be before SECR grey and Primrose).

In tenth place is SECR 753, clearly the KESR preserved loco is less popular than the Bluebells preserved members. I would have expected SECR 178 and SECR 753 to be similar in sales and ranking.

The last two places are occupied by the 2 industrial P class (also both preserved). I would probably have brought these if the other colours of the same locos had not existed. Bowaters was not far from where I lived...

Relative to popularity of the Bluebell railway I suspect, it has a cult following.

The KESR somewhat lives in Bluebells shadow.

 

A Bluebell railway modeller is quite spoilt for choice when it comes to modelling their fleet, and of course those pre-grouping liveries were around in the 1960's here too.

 

If you already own 55, 473, 488, 592, 928, 21c123, 9017, 30064, 73082, 75027 and the ability to order a H, Atlantic, B4 then adding 3X Ps isn't a big stretch at this point, especially as most of their passenger stock is available too.

 

I'd imagine the O1, Q and std2, who knows maybe even Captain Baxter too now industrials are in vogue, and will follow at some point then you can model the whole fleet with a couple of renumbers.

 

Regarding the O1 I recently stumbled across images of this in a location associated to a manufacturer in China, (I'm being vague as it's tied directly to a traceable individual in China and his employer, who may or may not have put files online by innocent mistake ), so It's a natural guess it's being considered, (and no it wasn't a C I saw), indeed I'm surprised a Q hasn't yet appeared either.

Edited September 23, 2017 by adb968008

[Guy Rixon]

No.326 is pictured with the set at Greenwich Park. The set conversion dates from 1912, the station closed to passengers in 1917, so that provides the range for the photograph. Re-numbering Hatton's 178 and back-dating buffers and smoke-box would get you there, though I think an air-pump was fitted to the remaining auto-fitted tanks in 1912.  I am sure such a pump is an easy after-market find, e.g. SE Finecast.

 

 

Gould lists the ex-LCDR push-pull coaches as vacuum braked c.1902 and fitted in 1912 with the rod controls for auto working rather than the pneumatic controls a la LBSCR. Which is not to say that the locos didn't have Westinghouse pumps, just that they didn't need them for the Greenwich-Nunhead service.

 

Pushing a bit on those coaches, it turns out that scratchbuilding is probably the best approach. Branchlines do a kit for the composite but their kit for the brake-third is for the 45' coach, not the 46' conversion from a full-third. I don't know if those kits include the ends with windows for the autocoaches. Scratchbuilding square-panelled stock should be easy enough.

 

Finally, the book extract that you kindly emailed to me reveals that some of the Greenwich-Nunhead workings were extended to Victoria. So "where push-pull trains appears alongside main-line stock" is any where on the South London line. In my alternate reality, instead of going to Victoria they turn right though Loughborough Junction, go up the LCDR city line, turn onto the SER via the (ficticious) west curve at Metropolitan Junction and end up at Strand station (= Charing Cross High Level; also fictitious). So, yes, I'm building these sometime.

[JSpencer]

A Bluebell railway modeller is quite spoilt for choice when it comes to modelling their fleet, and of course those pre-grouping liveries were around in the 1960's here too.

 

If you already own 55, 473, 488, 592, 928, 21c123, 9017, 30064, 73082, 75027 and the ability to order a H, Atlantic, B4 then adding 3X Ps isn't a big stretch at this point, especially as most of their passenger stock is available too.

 

I'd imagine the O1, Q and std2, who knows maybe even Captain Baxter too now industrials are in vogue, and will follow at some point then you can model the whole fleet with a couple of renumbers.

 

There is a fair amount out there for locos;

Stepney both in LBSCR 55 and BR and Bluebells early 60s

Fenchurch in BR

E4 both as Birch Grove and 473

Adams Radial as (488 twice), EKR 5 and BR diguises

Edit: Beachy Head Atlantic

B4 soon by Dapol as Normandy and late BR

C classe as SECR 592

P class soon by Hattons, All 3 members in multiple liveries.

Dukedog 9017 in early BR

Schools Stowe (1980s Hornby, getting on a bit)

Blackmoor Vale 21C123

Q1 (not on the bluebell today but was there for almost 2 decades and worked trains) just been done by Rails

T9 (replaced the Q1 when it left)

S15 30830 (stored on the Bluebell for many years before moving north)

USA tank 30064

Merchant Navy Port Line, no longer there today but was for a while in the late 80s/90s

BR 5MT 73082

BR 4MT 75027 (twice with old and new tooling)

BR 4MT 80064 by Wrenn (if that counts!)

BR 4MT 80151 by Wrenn (if that counts!)

BR 9F 92240 (modelzone exclusive)

 

Could be done with tooling today:

Sir Archibald Sinclair 34059 via Hornby rebuilt BoB. Strangely Hornby have done her in Original condition

263 H Class (no one will quibble about it being as preserved!!)

80100 (and 80064, 800151) 4MT by Bachmann - amazed that they have missed all 3 members of this class

S15 847

 

Rolling stock though is a bit weak though:

1 Maunsell coach in Bluebell 60s blue

Eagle Mk1 Pullman

Fingall Pullman

320 Maunsell LSWR rebuild

PMV

Dapol SECR wagon

Edited September 24, 2017 by JSpencer

[Anglian]

Add the N class mogul.

 

The Q Class might well be in the sights of either Hornby or Bachmann as they are starting to get into their stride with the 0-6-0 goods engines.

 

I may just have to order Bluebell as a second loco.

Edited September 23, 2017 by Anglian

[phil-b259]

Add the N class mogul.

 

Except the Bluebell has never hosted the last surviving N class loco!

 

That honour goes to the Mid-Hants and now the Swanage Railway.

 

The Southern moguls the Bluebell does have are members of the U class (2 out of a total of 5 in preservation IIRC)

Edited September 23, 2017 by phil-b259

[GreenGiraffe22]

The Q Class might well be in the sights of either Hornby or Bachmann as they are starting to get into their stride with the 0-6-0 goods engines.

 

My Hornby 700 is one of, if not *the* best performing loco on my layout, yes please to a Q built to the same quality!

[Ian J.]

Except the Bluebell has never hosted the last serving N class loco!

 

That honour goes to the Mid-Hants and now the Swanage Railway.

 

The Southern moguls the Bluebell does have are members of the U class (2 out of a total of 5 in preservation IIRC)

 

Bring on the U, I say!

[Floreat Industria]

I've ordered 753 as it was the first of the class and had the taller tanks and cab. Note the subtle difference between the two SECR locos.

[portsladepete]

I have ordered the Blubell version, Hattons recommendation for a decoder doesn't make much sense to me,as looking at the photo showing the chassis seems to show a right angled decoder,unless I am not seeing what everyone else is ?????

[Roy Langridge]

I have ordered the Blubell version, Hattons recommendation for a decoder doesn't make much sense to me,as looking at the photo showing the chassis seems to show a right angled decoder,unless I am not seeing what everyone else is ?????

 

Not at right angles, the decoder runs along the side of the motor.

 

Roy

[portsladepete]

Thanks Roy,

 

thought the oblong piece in front was the decoder,suppose it's some sort of circuit board,

 

Pete

[JSpencer]

I know what you mean.  I am the other way around. I quite like the idea of a wartime Southern line skirting the wooded dispersal track of a Battle of Britain fighter station, and on past a few of the Few imbibing at the Jackdaw.

 

Trouble is, I seem perpetually stuck before August 1914.  Too much of interest in the Edwardian scene!

 

Recreating and running the odd out of period train is not a bad way of having some cake and eating it.

 

PS: The Umber E4 is simply a really lovely model. Treat yourself.

 

I grew up wanting to hear older generations talk about the 40s and before. Few actually wanted to, especially the war, most have now passed beyond the vale.

 

One person who did talk was a wonderful chap called Harry Pye. Royal Engineer in WWI, lots of things in WWII, best traction engine judge at the Detling Kent county show and actioneer on the Bluebell. Each year as a kid he would take me and my gran to the Bluebell railway where they could both tell their stories.

Another chap who I met later years was 'Jimmy' Buttle. Served on HMS Pepperpot in WWII, built a 5in gauge live steam Schools class, his 00 layout was huge covering Waterloo station!

Then a lecturer at college, Mr Gregory, despite having severe arthritis, would work all machines to make live steam 5in gauge locos, worked on building the King George V battleships when he was young.

 

All these and other wonderful people brought to life the life, the locos of days gone. How I wished (still wish) I could have been around in that era.

 

So now I cover all years and eras between 1900 to 1993. But increasingly more focused on BR south east and the SECR.

[GreenGiraffe22]

I'm very fortunate to still have a full set of Grandparents, they were all children during WW2, they've told me loads about family life but I don't think they took much notice of the railways other than a means of transport. All fascinating stories all the same

[Steamport Southport]

There is a fair amount out there for locos;

Stepney both in LBSCR 55 and BR and Bluebells early 60s

Fenchurch in BR

E4 both as Birch Grove and 473

Adams Radial as (488 twice), EKR 5 and BR diguises

Edit: Beachy Head Atlantic

B4 soon by Dapol as Normandy and late BR

C classe as SECR 592

P class soon by Hattons, All 3 members in multiple liveries.

Dukedog 9017 in early BR

Schools Stowe (1980s Hornby, getting on a bit)

Blackmoor Vale 21C123

Q1 (not on the bluebell today but was there for almost 2 decades and worked trains) just been done by Rails

T9 (replaced the Q1 when it left)

S15 30830 (stored on the Bluebell for many years before moving north)

USA tank 30064

Merchant Navy Port Line, no longer there today but was for a while in the late 80s/90s

BR 5MT 73082

BR 4MT 75027 (twice with old and new tooling)

BR 4MT 80064 by Wrenn (if that counts!)

BR 4MT 80151 by Wrenn (if that counts!)

BR 9F 92240 (modelzone exclusive)

 

Could be done with tooling today:

Sir Archibald Sinclair 34059 via Hornby rebuilt BoB. Strangely Hornby have done her in Original condition

263 H Class (no one will quibble about it being as preserved!!)

80100 (and 80064, 800151) 4MT by Bachmann - amazed that they have missed all 3 members of this class

S15 847

 

Rolling stock though is a bit weak though:

1 Maunsell coach in Bluebell 60s blue

Eagle Mk1 Pullman

Fingall Pullman

320 Maunsell LSWR rebuild

PMV

Dapol SECR wagon

 

What? No diesels? 

 

You could easily add a Hornby Sentinel and BR Class 09.

 

http://www.bluebell-railway.co.uk/bluebell/locos/d/sentinel.html

 

http://www.bluebell-railway.co.uk/bluebell/pics/D4106.html

 

Even an electric 4VEP, also made by Hornby.

 

http://www.bluebell-railway.co.uk/bluebell/pic2/electric/vep3417.html

 

 

You could even have as many Deltics as Ps.

 

https://www.bluebell-railway.com/whats_on/deltic-preservation-society-40th-anniversary/

 

 

 

 

Jason

[JSpencer]

What? No diesels? 

 

You could easily add a Hornby Sentinel and BR Class 09.

 

http://www.bluebell-railway.co.uk/bluebell/locos/d/sentinel.html

 

http://www.bluebell-railway.co.uk/bluebell/pics/D4106.html

 

Even an electric 4VEP, also made by Hornby.

 

http://www.bluebell-railway.co.uk/bluebell/pic2/electric/vep3417.html

 

 

You could even have as many Deltics as Ps.

 

https://www.bluebell-railway.com/whats_on/deltic-preservation-society-40th-anniversary/

 

 

 

 

Jason

They were a recent editions, though I will come clean and say I have an 09 to repainting into BR Blue and renumber to 09 018 at some point.

 

The VEP would need a 3rd rail something the Bluebell never had. Or a 73 on loan to drag it. I think it will probably end up shuttling people to London from East Grinstead.

The list of visiting engines is endless...

 

Speaking of which P class 323 is busy visiting other preserved lines, so you all really do need one. Trust me. It is must have...

 

My memories are of the bluebell being diesel less! I know that has changed now.

[No Decorum]

My memories are of the bluebell being diesel less! I know that has changed now.

I suppose the change was for much the same reasons as BR changed. It’s a shame in a way; there was something grand about doing everything by steam although I am not in any way anti-diesel.

[Wickham Green]

The VEP would need a 3rd rail something the Bluebell never had.

Depends what you mean by 'never had' ....... don't forget the Ardingly Branch still had a 2BIL shuttle ( generally from Seaford ) into early 'Bluebell' days. [ Reinstatement of the branch and the 'juice' would provide a possible home for umpteen other electric units rotting in various parts of the country, too ............ but, of course Alf would object ...... an' his mate Saftee ! ]

 

Sorry that's totally off topic - so I'd better emphasis that it's not a good idea to have a 'P' on the third rail ................

Edited September 27, 2017 by Wickham Green

[96701]

My dad took this photo of me, so guess what I have just ordered.

 

 

[davefromacrossthepond]

Phil,

 

Why do I think this will be your favorite loco regardless of era/region modelled?

[GreenGiraffe22]

Great photo! =)

[96701]

Phil,

 

Why do I think this will be your favorite loco regardless of era/region modelled?

I have never modelled anything that could remotely allow Pride of Sussex to run. I'm now considering something non DCC, small and perfectly suitable for it to potter about on.

[roythebus]

I've still got one of the 1960s Wills P class in working order1 I bought it back in 1967 for about 13/6d and had to do a lot of paper rounds to get the wheels for it! It used to have a the Triang XT60 motor, but that got changed back in the 1980s for a tin can motor of some sort. there's also a lter Wills kit with etched chassis that I got in about 1998, still unfinished! Oh well, Hattons here I come.

[Wickham Green]

My dad took this photo of me, so guess what I have just ordered.

 

Pride of Sussex.jpg

You'd better get yourself scanned by Modelu so you can step back on the runnning plate !