Rapido LB&SCR Class E1 0-6-0T

[drnick]

Can someone just clear up my understanding of proposed liveries?  With so many longed for models being produced, I've got a bit lost.  This without the cancelled retailer commissions.  I wonder if I've missed an announcement of a retailer commission somewhere... and want to make sure I get my pre-order right/ hold off in hope for second run. 

 

Mainland:

2x LBSCR Improved engine green

2x LBSCR Goods green

2x LBSCR Marsh umber

2x SR Black Maunsell lettering

3x BR black (2x early emblem, 1x no emblem)

 

Island

1x each of: SR Bulleid sunshine lettering, BR green and BR black early emblem

1x SR olive green (IWSR exclusive)

 

1xHartley colliery livery. 

 

But the Train Times 2x LBSCR lined black liveries no longer going ahead. 

 

And no mainland SR in Bulleid/sunshine Black livery currently proposed from any source??

Many thanks in advance. 

Edited February 23 by drnick
Add IWSR exclusive (thanks for reminder!)

[Compound2632]

26 minutes ago, drnick said:

And no mainland SR in Bulleid/sunshine Black livery currently proposed from any source??

 

One wonders (in ignorance) if lack of model is due to lack of prototype?

[Karl]

44 minutes ago, drnick said:

Can someone just clear up my understanding of proposed liveries?  With so many longed for models being produced, I've got a bit lost.  This without the cancelled retailer commissions.  I wonder if I've missed an announcement of a retailer commission somewhere... and want to make sure I get my pre-order right/ hold off in hope for second run. 

 

Mainland:

2x LBSCR Improved engine green

2x LBSCR Goods green

2x LBSCR Marsh umber

2x SR Black Maunsell lettering

3x BR black (2x early emblem, 1x no emblem)

 

Island

1x each of: SR Bulleid sunshine lettering, BR green and BR black early emblem

 

1xHartley colliery livery. 

 

But the Train Times 2x LBSCR lined black liveries no longer going ahead. 

 

And no mainland SR in Bulleid/sunshine Black livery currently proposed from any source??

Many thanks in advance. 

 

You've missed the Isle of Wight Steam Railway exclusive of island condition W2 'Yarmouth' in SR Olive Green.

Edited February 23 by Karl

[Graham_Muz]

17 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

 

One wonders (in ignorance) if lack of model is due to lack of prototype?

 

Yes the mainland E1s gained SR Bulleid black  starting with 2694 from 27th January 1940 onwards.

[Compound2632]

24 minutes ago, Graham_Muz said:

Yes the mainland E1s gained SR Bulleid black  starting with 2694 from 27th January 1940 onwards.

 

Thanks. Then one has to presume that Rapido have concluded that this livery is one that is unlikely to sell as well as the others - after all, the 1930s and 1950s are more widely modelled than the 1940s. For those desperate for this livery, there's always the option of relettering one of the earlier Southern black models.

 

 

[Graham_Muz]

Just now, Compound2632 said:

 

Thanks. Then one has to presume that Rapido have concluded that this livery is one that is unlikely to sell as well as the others - after all, the 1930s and 1950s are more widely modelled than the 1940s. For those desperate for this livery, there's always the option of relettering one of the earlier Southern black models.

 

 

 

Indeed and exactly what I shall (and often) do!

[stephennicholson]

2 hours ago, Karl said:

But the Train Times 2x LBSCR lined black liveries no longer going ahead. 

 

At the Rapido stand at Warley, the possibility of these going ahead with another commissioner was mentioned, although the one with tooling changes was deemed as less likely (not sure which one that was).  If it doesn't then I need to decide whether a black Southern with LBSC transfers plus lining is an option, or modellers licence use of a goods green version into 1918 is the path of least resistance!

[Wickham Green too]

6 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

... there's always the option of relettering one of the earlier Southern black models.

Depending on the solidity of the smokebox numberplate, a BR model might be a marginally simpler starting point ............... particularly if the SR black is lined in green !

[Olive_Green1923]

1 hour ago, Wickham Green too said:

Depending on the solidity of the smokebox numberplate, a BR model might be a marginally simpler starting point ............... particularly if the SR black is lined in green !

 

Presumably B142 will be lined black, whilst 2151 will be plain black (as per the CAD)?

[Wickham Green too]

How many pages back was that ? .... there are only photos of the locos on the Rapido website - and you're probably right : still removing a BR crest is probably easier to disguise with a sunshine "SOUTHERN" than two lines of lettering would be.

[Olive_Green1923]

6 minutes ago, Wickham Green too said:

How many pages back was that ? .... there are only photos of the locos on the Rapido website - and you're probably right : still removing a BR crest is probably easier to disguise with a sunshine "SOUTHERN" than two lines of lettering would be.

Yeh fair enough. Here is the CAD: https://railsofsheffield.com/products/lbscr-stroudley-e1-0-6-0t-no-2151-southern-black-dcc-sound

[BlueLightning]

21 hours ago, stephennicholson said:

At the Rapido stand at Warley, the possibility of these going ahead with another commissioner was mentioned, although the one with tooling changes was deemed as less likely (not sure which one that was).

 

Both the Train Times ones were to have a base under the whistle that none of the other models had, if a bit of tooling is being dropped I expect it is this.

 

The base under the whistle can be seen here

 

If someone else did pick them up, they'd have an order from me for sure.

Gary

[drnick]

On 23/02/2024 at 10:51, Compound2632 said:

 

Thanks. Then one has to presume that Rapido have concluded that this livery is one that is unlikely to sell as well as the others - after all, the 1930s and 1950s are more widely modelled than the 1940s. For those desperate for this livery, there's always the option of relettering one of the earlier Southern black models.

 

 

 

Yes I guess.

 

I can also understand if they were rarely pictured with wartime restrictions etc in that livery, but i found it relatively easy to find this example from:

 

https://sremg.org.uk/steam/pics/mm_2122.jpg

 

 

 

I'm very happy there is more pre-grouping modelling, and I get the attraction with the beautiful  LBSCR names (e.g. Verona or Gascony...). 

 

I'm just genuinely surprised there's enough market/ people modelling pre-grouping to make 6x LBSCR liveries viable, compared to modeling the 1940s.

 

[Compound2632]

6 hours ago, drnick said:

I'm just genuinely surprised there's enough market/ people modelling pre-grouping to make 6x LBSCR liveries viable, compared to modeling the 1940s.

 

Remember that a lot of people buying these are not doing so because they are modelling late nineteenth century LB&SCR but because these models are attractive objects in their own right.

 

Although that said, the Brighton has always - pretty well since the dawn of railway modelling - been a popular subject. I suspect that, historically, Sussex had more than its fair share of people with the leisure and funds to indulge in the hobby.

[burgundy]

1 hour ago, Compound2632 said:

I suspect that, historically, Sussex had more than its fair share of people with the leisure and funds to indulge in the hobby.

Any evidence to support that? We don't seem to sell any more copies of the LB&SCR Modellers' Digest in Sussex than anywhere else. 😊

Historically, the Stephenson Loco Society had a hard core of Brighton enthusiasts and, in the early days, the Bluebell Railway Preservation Society had a similar Brighton influence, but I don't think that the membership of the Brighton Circle is disproportionately larger than the other line societies. We have, however, been going for 50 years! 

Best wishes 

Eric 

[Wickham Green too]

8 hours ago, drnick said:

 ... I can also understand if they were rarely pictured with wartime restrictions etc in that livery,  ...

While wartime restrictions would have applied when locos first appeared with 'sunshine' insignia, the livery was still being applied into the early months of British Railways long after restrictions were lifted* and wouldn't have disappeared well into the fifties. ( Plenty of examples are known with either 6'' or 9'' insignia.)

 

* though film shortages might have been a problem until the market was flooded (?) with RAF surplus

[Fredo]

Hi,

I have preordered IOW and Main line versions W4 and 32694 which were the last of each variant to be withdrawn. 
Thanks Fred

[Compound2632]

2 hours ago, burgundy said:

Any evidence to support that?

 

I was thinking more of the early years of the 20th century. Perhaps Sussex was too specific - the home counties generally, which I suppose technically doesn't include Sussex!

[That Model Railway Guy]

Hoping this might be of interest to some of you. Rapido recently invited me down to take a look at everything they were working on and while I was there the first running samples of the E1 arrived. They were kind enough to let me film them running on the test track to share publicly in the video below. It should automatically start from the relevant section but if not skip to 02:48 specifically for the E1.

 

 

 

 

Obviously these are still a work in progress and Rapido already know of some things that need to be done to improve the performance. I just thought some of you might be interested in seeing these first prototypes in action.

 

[GreenGiraffe22]

I would very much be in the market for a sunshine version, hopefully in another batch

 

I wonder, would they do it like this 

 

 

 

 

Or like this 

 

 

 

 

 

[Lacathedrale]

Am I correct in assuming the IEG liveried E1's are fictional? They were introduced post-1874 when Goods Green was introduced, and would have been in umber in post-1920 when lined black was abolished? If not, when would they slot into the timeline?

[Compound2632]

11 minutes ago, Lacathedrale said:

Am I correct in assuming the IEG liveried E1's are fictional? They were introduced post-1874 when Goods Green was introduced, and would have been in umber in post-1920 when lined black was abolished? If not, when would they slot into the timeline?

 

By no means. This was discussed very recently in another topic:

The Brighton Circle's webpage on the class:

https://www.lbscr.org/Rolling-Stock/Locomotives/Stroudley/E1.xhtml

has photos of No. 97 Honfleur, No. 148 Vienna, and No. 155 Brenner in both IEG and Goods Green and No. 145 France in IEG.

Edited February 26 by Compound2632

[stephennicholson]

51 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

 

By no means. This was discussed very recently in another topic:

The Brighton Circle's webpage on the class:

https://www.lbscr.org/Rolling-Stock/Locomotives/Stroudley/E1.xhtml

has photos of No. 97 Honfleur, No. 148 Vienna, and No. 155 Brenner in both IEG and Goods Green and No. 145 France in IEG.

Do we know whether E1s were exclusively repainted into Black from 1905 and Umber, for Goods, was only used at the tail end of LBSC (mid 1921 according to the HRMRS Southern Style).

Edited February 26 by stephennicholson

[Lacathedrale]

Right, so IEG E1's would be suitable, in theory, for 1880-1890 @Compound2632 ? @Nick Holliday always to the rescue :)

[BlueLightning]

1 hour ago, Lacathedrale said:

Am I correct in assuming the IEG liveried E1's are fictional? They were introduced post-1874 when Goods Green was introduced, and would have been in umber in post-1920 when lined black was abolished? If not, when would they slot into the timeline?

 

Some were originally IEG as they were put onto passenger services during the loco shortage, all had been painted into goods green by the early 1890s (I'll have to dig out a book to find the actual date)

 

50 minutes ago, stephennicholson said:

Do we know whether E1s were exclusively repainted into Black from 1905 and Umber, for Goods, was only used at the tail end of LBSC (mid 1921 according to the HRMRS Southern Style).

 

correct, black from 1905, and umber from 1921

Gary