Great Model Railway Challenge - Channel 5

[Marcus-Jay]

I've created a sub-forum for content relating to the programme and the layout features so they don't get too lost down the lists.

 

I reckon I've missed something somewhere (on the layout features) so if you spot anything which needs to be moved into this area let me know!

Where is this please Andy? (Link)

[Hobby]

In the "Modelling Zone" section of the forum that this thread is now in!!

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/forum/1-modelling-zone/ (4th down http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/forum/336-great-model-railway-challenge-channel-5/ )

Edited November 8, 2018 by Hobby

[Golden Fleece 30]

Leaving my personal issues regarding DC v DCC aside this is a difficult one to discuss/show in this sort of programme and who it is aimed at.  Reading a lot of extra people, adults and children, have attended more recent exhibitions due to the show then hopefully they may look at entering into "our world" and this then is where I see the argument for DC v DCC appearing.  I know some sets are sold as DCC with the vast majority still DC but who are the DCC sets aimed at?  Again leaving my personal views apart, I can see a lot of people looking at DCC as they are told what it is supposed to do, and as mentioned on here, the use of a phone etc will make them happy and they may go down that route, but, I doubt giving a young child a DCC train set would be beneficial for him or her starting out.  When I was little (7, 8, 9, 10 etc), many moons ago, I would ask for a new loco for Christmas/Birthday and when I received one I could open the box and put it straight on the track and run it.  Now if the basic set was DCC it would mean a loco would have to get a chip and be wired in correctly and certain controller settings made, (correct? as I am not a DCC fan), and I doubt a 7, 8, 9 year old would be able to do this and I think this initial start could be off putting.

 

Even DC can give issues like turning the control knob the wrong way (good old 3-rail does not though) or a second hand loco may have had its magnet removed and replaced the wrong way round or even remaged the wrong way, but it must still be easier for a young child.

 

This type of programme is not for discussing the merits of one system over the other, it is for the entertainment value, so I was a little disappointed to read on here a few pages back that the final is going to be all DCC.  I personally have no knowledge of it, and don't want to, but how many winning contestants do?  Hopefully in the interests of the viewers someone from each team will have the knowledge but I think it a little unfair as it then becomes more of a "specialist" competition.

 

Garry 

Edited November 8, 2018 by Golden Fleece 30

[PhilJ W]

My friends 10 year old son usually comes with us to shows and exhibitions and is known to many layout operators who often invite him to 'have a go'. He was allowed recently to operate a DCC layout and now wants to go DCC with his own trains.

[Penlan]

I think 'Golden Fleece 30' has a valid point.
I took a current modelling mag to the pub the other day, because of the genuine interest in the programme amongst my friends,  and once they started flicking through the add's there were various outcries around "how much?" for DCC fitted RTR loco's etc.,

So whether a 7 - 10 year old can get a DCC train set working, or not, think of the initial outlay, for the parents.
I'm minded of years ago when PC's first came in, wonderful present for Christmas, but when they crashed,

in the evening, the repercussions where   beyond a 

.

But as I'm often told these days "Oh, your Old School", or worse 

Edited November 8, 2018 by Penlan

[PhilJ W]

That was the first thing that my friend remarked upon, the cost of DCC. I don't think the lad will be going DCC any time soon. The lads other passion is his tablet, better not mention controlling DCC trains using a tablet.

That was the first thing that my friend remarked upon, the cost of DCC. I don't think the lad will be going DCC any time soon. The lads other passion is his tablet, better not mention controlling DCC trains using a tablet.

[JohnR]

That was the first thing that my friend remarked upon, the cost of DCC. I don't think the lad will be going DCC any time soon. The lads other passion is his tablet, better not mention controlling DCC trains using a tablet.

That was the first thing that my friend remarked upon, the cost of DCC. I don't think the lad will be going DCC any time soon. The lads other passion is his tablet, better not mention controlling DCC trains using a tablet.

Hattons have the Hornby e-link device for £30. 

[Ian Morgan]

It's all relative:

 

 

Ready to fly drone and camera - $1,500

https://hobbyking.com/en_us/dji-drone-phantom-4-advanced.html

 

Sony PS4 (games extra) - £450

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Sony-PlayStation-500GB-Console-Black/dp/B00BE4HOIM

 

Man. United Season Ticket (16-17 year old) - £266

https://www.manutd.com/en/tickets-and-hospitality/season-tickets

 

Man. United football shirt - £60

https://store.manutd.com/stores/manutd/en/c/football-kits/home-kit

 

DCC starter set, train, track and DCC command station - £160

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Hornby-Western-Master-Link-Electric/dp/B00BUKPXS8/ref=sr_1_1?s=kids&ie=UTF8&qid=1541681282&sr=1-1&keywords=dcc

[Jol Wilkinson]

Ian,

 

I don't think you are reallky comparing like with like;

 

This would be a more comparable drone at  $149 (there are similar ones available in the UK at £149);

 

https://hobbyking.com/en_us/dji-tello-fun-drone-with-high-resolution-720p-camera-rtf.html

 

A Nintendo hand held with one game at £79.99

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Nintendo-Handheld-Console-Black-Pre-installed/dp/B00QTRQ5IY/ref=zg_bs_13978160031_1?_encoding=UTF8&refRID=HW8H9MF8GGDEFHH0QRNK&th=1

 

I'll pass on the Man Utd. shirt, but again they are probably at the top end of prices.

 

However, the train set has the benefit that it it can be expanded and lead into a creative pastime, so arguably better value anyway as a "starter item".

 

Jol

[newbryford]

 

 

I'll pass on the Man Utd. shirt, but again they are probably at the top end of prices.

 

 

 

Replica shirts for any sport are often £50 or more. (I uy shirt a replica shirt for my local ice hockey team. They play in an amateur league. It costs £45...

$110 for US pro-sports teams.

 

Cheers,

Mick

[Philou]

Hi chums,

 

Just to add my tuppence worth, I set up the grandsons' layout upon which they had everything on it (Lego and Playmobil people, aeroplanes, out of scale buildings etc. - but no dinosaurs) and they thoroughly enjoyed playing in 'their' world (7 and 9 years old).

 

However, during a quiet interlude, I set up my ECoS and some of my DCC sound locos to run them in a little (no circuit of my own at the mo'). Well, they too now want DCC with all the bells and whistles - literally.

 

The point is - whilst I should want them to go down that route - it's a costly exercise!! And the locos of today are not the Hornby Dublos of yesteryear neither. What to do?

 

BTW, if the programme has got people interested in the hobby - thumbs up all round, I say.

 

Cheers,

 

Philip

Edited November 8, 2018 by Philou

[rob D2]

The biggest difference between the first trainset I got in 1977 and the one I run today is DCC , DCC sound.

I’m not surprised the kids love it !

[Jeff Smith]

I dabbled with DCC with my On30 layout in a very basic 'control and lights only' way. Yes I had to go in and change some acceleration rates for non-Bachmann chips to match the factory fitted ones, but other than that just one at a time control. I expected more of it in terms of reliable control (continuity) but in all honesty it was no better than my DC Gaugemaster.

 

The DCC control was sold with the layout and all my P4 locos are DC and will remain that way.

 

I understand the attraction of DCC for large complex multi-train operation but for me with small BLT layouts just not justifiable.

[Zomboid]

The biggest difference between the first trainset I got in 1977 and the one I run today is DCC , DCC sound.

I’m not surprised the kids love it !

For me the sound is the critical part. Silent model trains (even electric ones) hold no interest for me whatsoever.

 

But we're all different. Nobody is wrong, and so long as we're having fun then everybody is right.

[Phil Parker]

 

This type of programme is not for discussing the merits of one system over the other, it is for the entertainment value, so I was a little disappointed to read on here a few pages back that the final is going to be all DCC.  I personally have no knowledge of it, and don't want to, but how many winning contestants do?  Hopefully in the interests of the viewers someone from each team will have the knowledge but I think it a little unfair as it then becomes more of a "specialist" competition.

 

 

The only important thing is that the final layout is DC OR DCC as trains need to run between the different teams layouts. I would be very surprised if the show gives more than a passing mention to the control system.

 

"The problem when you "personally have no knowledge" of something is that you can imagine all sorts of problems that may not exist. I'm sure there was behind the scenes help that we won't see. The control system was, as was posted earlier, supplied to all the contestants. On that basis, if I was taking part, I'd have made sure someone on the team had at least a bit of knowledge by the time of filming. 

[geoffa]

Given the amount of time the teams have to build the layout, I think have done remarkably well. As someone has said previously the programme is aimed at the experienced modeller, but I hope it attracts a new generation to our wonderful hobby. I contacted the production company with a view of possibly applying for the next series but so far I have not had a response.

Geoff

[Ravenser]

The only important thing is that the final layout is DC OR DCC as trains need to run between the different teams layouts. I would be very surprised if the show gives more than a passing mention to the control system.

 

"The problem when you "personally have no knowledge" of something is that you can imagine all sorts of problems that may not exist. I'm sure there was behind the scenes help that we won't see. The control system was, as was posted earlier, supplied to all the contestants. On that basis, if I was taking part, I'd have made sure someone on the team had at least a bit of knowledge by the time of filming. 

 

If you have to make things work in haste by combining 5 layouts then DCC - being plug and play - is going to be a lot simpler to get up and running than integrating 5 separate sets of DC wiring from 5 different groups, in tearing haste under cameras

 

This is one situation where "only one electrical section" becomes a life-saver

 

Quite apart from anything else you don't have to develop and get agreed a "modular wiring standard" beforehand

 

I suspect the penny dropped with the production team during the contest that DCC was the only practical way to go  in this situation

[Golden Fleece 30]

The only important thing is that the final layout is DC OR DCC as trains need to run between the different teams layouts. I would be very surprised if the show gives more than a passing mention to the control system.

 

"The problem when you "personally have no knowledge" of something is that you can imagine all sorts of problems that may not exist. I'm sure there was behind the scenes help that we won't see. The control system was, as was posted earlier, supplied to all the contestants. On that basis, if I was taking part, I'd have made sure someone on the team had at least a bit of knowledge by the time of filming. 

It was mentioned earlier all teams were given a Gaugemaster DC 4 track controller, if they wanted DCC they had to provide it themselves so no knowledge was needed.

 

Garry

[Golden Fleece 30]

For me the sound is the critical part. Silent model trains (even electric ones) hold no interest for me whatsoever.

 

But we're all different. Nobody is wrong, and so long as we're having fun then everybody is right.

I was not going to get involved but it was brought up and as you say we are all different but for me sound is a complete waste as it is so unrealistic. It is taken from real ones (that's fine) but it plays as a real one which is 76 times larger than the model.  To sound correctly it needs scaling down to match the appropriate sized model which I don't think sound can be scaled down.  At shows it spoils my enjoyment when I can hear it from upstairs when the layout is downstairs, in other rooms etc. Worse still is when as an exhibitor all I can hear is them all day long, and it spoils it for other sound layouts who cannot hear their own.  Keep sound at home, in the club rooms or better still have just DCC shows where I don't have go and to listen.

 

I'm ready to duck the bullets now but that is my opinion.

 

Garry 

[Scottish Modeller]

The only important thing is that the final layout is DC OR DCC as trains need to run between the different teams layouts. I would be very surprised if the show gives more than a passing mention to the control system.

 

"The problem when you "personally have no knowledge" of something is that you can imagine all sorts of problems that may not exist. I'm sure there was behind the scenes help that we won't see. The control system was, as was posted earlier, supplied to all the contestants. On that basis, if I was taking part, I'd have made sure someone on the team had at least a bit of knowledge by the time of filming. 

 

Hi Phil,

 

OK - Sort of agree with a lot of what you have posted.

 

However, I have to correct you when you say 'there would have been behind the scenes help that we won't see'.

 

You won't see it because it didn't exist.

 

There was no help available - you had to rely on your own team to provide the assistance or skills base.

 

Of course, being modellers with the intent to portray the hobby in the best way possible, some help was provided to other teams. Certainly was in our heat....

 

Thanks

[enginelane]

Hi Phil,

 

OK - Sort of agree with a lot of what you have posted.

 

However, I have to correct you when you say 'there would have been behind the scenes help that we won't see'.

 

You won't see it because it didn't exist.

 

There was no help available - you had to rely on your own team to provide the assistance or skills base.

 

Of course, being modellers with the intent to portray the hobby in the best way possible, some help was provided to other teams. Certainly was in our heat....

 

Thanks

Yeap it was down to the teams. There was the mention of a shop on site but it never made it on air for product placement reasons. Teams did help each other with tools or materials because that is what Modellers do. Everyone looked at everybody’s else’s progress but with encouragement rather than brick bats. The Knickerbockerglory Team provided new vacuum cleaners when, I can now reveal, we bunged it up solid with blue foam waste, hair driers etc, lovely lunches and endless supplies of tea and coffee etc.

[Robin2]

I reckon the problem is that railway modellers have too much money to spend so all the manufacturers are building the most expensive things they can to reap the harvest before the rain comes. I can't think of any reason why DCC (and especially DCC sound) is as expensive as it it. A DCC chip with sound probably costs no more than £5 or £10 to manufacture.

 

And all this money, and all the highly detailed models that it can buy means that anyone who is content to enjoy a simple "make-believe" train set is uninteresting and unwelcome.

 

Let's face it a £200 model of a Class 66 is just a model, and you could have just as much fun with a simple Class 66 model made from cardboard and paint.

 

...R

[whart57]

I suspect they could probably get a full quota of teams just from RMweb. But I reckon there will be plenty of club members up and down the country who have been watching it and thinking "That looks fun - but I bet we could do it better". I don't think they'll have any trouble getting enough teams for a second series.

But how would they apply?

[Andy Y]

Oh don't turn another topic into a price rant please.

[whart57]

I reckon the problem is that railway modellers have too much money to spend so all the manufacturers are building the most expensive things they can to reap the harvest before the rain comes. I can't think of any reason why DCC (and especially DCC sound) is as expensive as it it. A DCC chip with sound probably costs no more than £5 or £10 to manufacture.

 

And all this money, and all the highly detailed models that it can buy means that anyone who is content to enjoy a simple "make-believe" train set is uninteresting and unwelcome.

 

Let's face it a £200 model of a Class 66 is just a model, and you could have just as much fun with a simple Class 66 model made from cardboard and paint.

 

...R

 

It may cost a tenner to manufacture, it will have cost a lot more to design. I worked in software, and one problem was that customers frequently didn't understand why their one off bespoke application cost a lot more than Microsoft's offerings that sold millions.