KR Models announce the Fell in OO and N.

[96701]

6 minutes ago, GWR-fan said:

 

No, I will take a hit and cancel my purchase and lose my GBP30.00 deposit for a BR black model with Rails.  As the loco is sold out at Rails in black then they will have no trouble onselling it.  With postage the loco would cost me close to $300.00, making it the second most expensive loco that I have purchased after the Rails 18000 class gas turbine model.  No doubt you will be happy when you receive your "Frankerfell" and every time you watch it run you will congratulate with adoration the manufacturer for his diligent research and full openness and transparency throughout the model's development and release.

Just because you live in the antipodes does not give you the right to pontificate on my personal views which I have not put on this forum. No wonder you are on moderated status.

 

[GWR-fan]

2 minutes ago, 96701 said:

Just because you live in the antipodes does not give you the right to pontificate on my personal views which I have not put on this forum. No wonder you are on moderated status.

 

 

So you will criticise me for my personal views but exonerate  a manufacturer for a completely incorrect expensive model.   My views come at no financial expense to you.

[96701]

Just now, GWR-fan said:

 

So you will criticise me for my personal views but exonerate  a manufacturer for a completely incorrect expensive model.   My views come at no financial expense to you.

I didn't criticise you, I only suggested that you sell it on. Stop reading things into sentences.

[GWR-fan]

1 minute ago, 96701 said:

I didn't criticise you, I only suggested that you sell it on. Stop reading things into sentences.

 

So in the previous posting when you stated,  quote: "Just because you live in the antipodes does not give you the right to pontificate on my personal views which I have not put on this forum. No wonder you are on moderated status."

 

We do speak the Queen's english downunder and in my opinion your statement is a snide criticism of me.  Enjoy your model when you receive it,  as I will enjoy spending the money saved not buying the model on something more accurate.

[96701]

 

[PieGuyRob]

Will anyone be making the grills to correct the errors? Will KR Models offer the grills to correct the errors as a good will gesture? For those like myself who ordered of Rails of Sheffield, will they offer a service to correct the grills?

 

I think those are fair enough questions to ask, whether they will be answered, remains to be seen.

[Les1952]

16 minutes ago, PieGuyRob said:

Will anyone be making the grills to correct the errors? Will KR Models offer the grills to correct the errors as a good will gesture? For those like myself who ordered of Rails of Sheffield, will they offer a service to correct the grills?

 

I think those are fair enough questions to ask, whether they will be answered, remains to be seen.

 

aftermarket opportunity?

 

Les

[Matt C]

You know I've just come back from the Model Rail Scotland show and I WAS going to come on here and in a friendly way slag off KR models in general and Michael in person, you know, just because I can.  

BUT, Ive just caught up on this thread and it's taken the wind out of my sails seeing the negativity. So instead as an ancient knackered up crabbit old I'm going to 'bend your ear' for a bit instead.

 

So I went up to the stand, stood quietly for a bit and then kicked Michael to wake him up. I then spent five minutes asking him what the heck the ' brown turd' sitting on the display counter was all about. And he told me !

 I then spent the next hour ? (In between Customers coming up and drueling over the samples on the counter and offering wives in exchange for the chance to own one) chatting to him about all things modelling. We chatted about his Dad and although I've never met him I got an impression of a crabbit old git like me but more like a stag. Absolutely passionate about modelling, a business man but not exactly cut out for the diplomatic Corps. You 

Push, he'll push back, you butt, he'll butt back twice as hard. Yeah you don't want to lock horns !

But this guy has a passion for modelling that will make him push a project through to the end.

 

Then theres Michael. . . Michael wasn't into model railways he was into Wargaming but he got called into help one day and did so, and never left. And that boy has a passion and I think we have got under his skin ! We chatted for quite some time and I saw that passion shine through ( once he had got over the shock of an RM member waking him up and had relaxed his guard )

 

I'll touch briefly on the Fell, I saw two samples on the counter and im probably like 99% of the potential customers, it looked awsome, but if someone told me it should have a pink knobb coming out of the drivers side roof area ? I wouldn't have a Scooby Doo. If I could afford it I'd buy one, or two,

A LOT of information was offered up about an obscure prototype from various sources with not a lot of definitive, CONFIRMED detail and some of this regrettably appeared to come in after tooling was signed off ( my interpretation)

 

All I can say about KR is what my gut instinct told me. They have a passion, they WANT to deliver a great product. They are new to the game and learning on the Job. RmWeb is a VERY small percentage of their customer base and yet Michael STILL tries to stay on top of an overwhelming amount of information given from here and other sources (bear in mind they are two people working VERY Long hours)

 

Give em a chance guys. The passion is there, they ARENT going to satisfy that small percentage who want perfection, although my impression is they would like to !  But I think they WILL do thier darndest to try 

 

Btw. The samples on the counter. . . DARN they look gooooooood  !!

 

 

 

 

 

  

 

 

Edited February 26, 2022 by Matt C
Typos ( ok ther Will be more !)

[Les1952]

At Doncaster I did ask Michael one question about the sound.   I'm prepared to accept that there probably isn't one of the original engines to make a recording from, much less all of them.  My concern was this-

 

Too many times we hear on small layouts locos that are supposed to have come in from a mile or so away going through their start-up procedures in the wings then five seconds later appearing into view.  Mostly this is due to operators not knowing that a loco can be got moving before the sound is kicked in, but not always- there are one or two which can't.  I can't remember which these are but having been invited round the back of a layout before lockdown to show an operator how to kick the sound in when moving the b-thing stopped dead and went through its engine start-up sequence as soon as I pressed f1...

 

I wanted to check that the Fell would have the ability to cut the sound in while the loco is moving without going through the involved start-up sequence.  Michael told me his dad was doing the sound, and that nobody had mentioned it to him (Michael) before, but he would contact his dad to ensure that this was checked as working if not already done.

 

They are still working on things which still can be corrected even though the models are by now ready to leave the factory if not already on their way.

 

Les

 

Edited February 26, 2022 by Les1952

[jsp3970]

When I was researching for the drawing of the Fell I looked at a lot of photos and tried to discern one side from the other. Oddly I did, it was to do with the roof, otherwise I could not tell one side from the other. I try very hard to make the drawing look accurate I would not even want to attempt to make a model of one. I can not see where I have made mistakes and will go back to correct them when I have the time. Incidentally here is a drawing of it in black, the only other one that I have currently finished.

[GWR-fan]

Let us wait and see the reviews from the likes of the model magazines and gauge their comments,  but then it will really require two reviews depending on which side of the model they are looking at.  The faults in the model are not simply a missing pink knob coming out of the driver's side roof area.   Would we excuse other manufacturers for such inaccuracies?

 

No doubt Keith and his son are highly motivated and dedicated manufacturers,  but we must remember that most likely a lot of the investment in the model is not all their own money but pre-payments and perhaps financing from Rails as well.  Without the input of Rails then it is conceivable that the project was maybe a non-starter.

 

A positive outcome of this is hopefully more diligent research before committing to signing off tooling on future projects.  If the prototype was an obscure locomotive then the onus is on the researcher to be more diligent in their endeavours and travel every route to make sure they have it right.  

 

[Matt C]

5 minutes ago, jsp3970 said:

When I was researching for the drawing of the Fell I looked at a lot of photos and tried to discern one side from the other. Oddly I did, it was to do with the roof, otherwise I could not tell one side from the other. I try very hard to make the drawing look accurate I would not even want to attempt to make a model of one. I can not see where I have made mistakes and will go back to correct them when I have the time. Incidentally here is a drawing of it in black, the only other one that I have currently finished.

You know a question popped into my mind and its a STUPID question. I dont know the Fell, never seen one, never knew it existed until KR daftly decided to do one ( in all the world and in the group of those who ordered/ want one who new it ACTUALLY existed ?!) I saw the model, apparently it has two different sides. If I look at each side in turn, which one is wrong ?

 

[GWR-fan]

3 minutes ago, Matt C said:

............. I saw the model, apparently it has two different sides. If I look at each side in turn, which one is wrong ?

 

 

If you were looking at a BR green model then definitely one side is wrong.

[Matt C]

2 minutes ago, GWR-fan said:

 

If you were looking at a BR green model then definitely one side is wrong.

But which one ? I can only SEE one at a time ?

[Matt C]

GWR lets drop this, Its a no win situation. I admire your tenasity but I think 98? 99;% of the buyers would say WUT ?

[GWR-fan]

20 minutes ago, Matt C said:

GWR lets drop this, Its a no win situation. I admire your tenasity but I think 98? 99;% of the buyers would say WUT ?

 

Let us see the mood when the model is released.  If no criticism then you can make a silk purse from a pig's ear.

 

Just for information if you look at the late crest model,  the side with only two grilles each end is the as released version.  By around 1952 the model had four grilles each end plus the side window had a grille over it as well as other changes like whether it had rooftop ventilators and how many.  Thus by the time the loco was in late crest livery the hood grilles had been altered many years previously and a grille placed over the side window.  If this is not a fault for you then no doubt you along with apparently 98 - 99% of purchasers will totally happy.

[Matt C]

14 hours ago, GWR-fan said:

 

Let us see the mood when the model is released.  If no criticism then you can make a silk purse from a pig's ear.

 

Just for information if you look at the late crest model,  the side with only two grilles each end is the as released version.  By around 1952 the model had four grilles each end plus the side window had a grille over it as well as other changes like whether it had rooftop ventilators and how many.  Thus by the time the loco was in late crest livery the hood grilles had been altered many years previously and a grille placed over the side window.  If this is not a fault for you then no doubt you along with apparently 98 - 99% of purchasers will totally happy.

But thats my point IMHO I Believe/assume 98-99% of the purchasers WILL be happy. For that 1% ? Buy a kit or bash this model to get to perfection ? But please STOP persistently bashing these guys for at least Producing SOMETHING that otherwise just wouldn't ever get made ? 

Please they come across as passionate in at least TRYING to produce something that otherwise just wouldn't exist outside of a kit that MOST just wouldn't even TRY to make

 

Give em a break l

 

 

 

 

Edited February 27, 2022 by Matt C
Edited to add IMHO I Believe/ Assume, rather than just WILL,  so no-one else has to waste life moments looking for and not finding my missing evidence to fact check it. . Now moving on with life

[amwells]

15 hours ago, amwells said:

I wouldn’t take the radio silence on here as radio silence generally, especially demonstrated by openness at a show.

I’m not sure that it’s great form to quote oneself, but to expand this a bit further, when speaking, we touched on the value of rmweb.  It is a great source of info, debate and joy, but I could see that Michael had been tired of attacks that had been directed at KR Models in the early days on here.

I’m sure that there is good intent behind it all, but I’d be a bit tired if I saw some of the posts in the last 24 hours in this thread, and do understand why they wouldn’t engage (not sure that makes me a ‘fanboy’ before that gets thrown at me - I’d still prefer a ‘perfect’ model!), because they’ve set a path, one that (as has been explained) is now set, and it won’t please some. They get that - repeating the criticism over and over isn’t going to change anything…

[GWR-fan]

31 minutes ago, Matt C said:

But thats my point. 98-99% of the purchasers WILL be happy. .....................

 

 

 

 

 

I was being cynical quoting your exact words.  Too many who pre-paid are left with little recourse should they not be happy with the final outcome. Those who purchased from Rails might be able to return them for a refund,  but would the manufacturer accept returns other than warranty claims?   If many are happy, truly happy with no regrets,  then that is their prerogative. How the media handles this model will be very interesting.  

[Darius43]

59 minutes ago, GWR-fan said:

 

 How the media handles this model will be very interesting.  

In this respect I don’t think you will get the happy ending you are hoping for.

 

Cheers

 

Darius

[GWR-fan]

58 minutes ago, Darius43 said:

In this respect I don’t think you will get the happy ending you are hoping for.

 

Cheers

 

Darius

 

I am reminded of a scene from Fawlty Towers,  where after a tumultuous scene in the dining room with some German tourists,   John Cleese moves to the kitchen area and says,  "Don't mention the war.  I did,  but I think that I got away with it".

 

Edit:  was it a scene for "The Simpsons",  an obvious crime scene has the police officer telling the bystanders,  "Move along, nothing to see here".

Edited February 27, 2022 by GWR-fan
Additional wording

[The Stationmaster]

9 hours ago, Matt C said:

But thats my point. 98-99% of the purchasers WILL be happy. For that 1% ? Buy a kit or bash this model to get to perfection ? But please STOP persistently bashing these guys for at least Producing SOMETHING that otherwise just wouldn't ever get made ? 

Please they come across as passionate in at least TRYING to produce something that otherwise just wouldn't exist outside of a kit that MOST just wouldn't even TRY to make

 

Give em a break l

 

 

 

 

As I said some time back in this thread different people approach models in different ways - some want visual authenticity (to the extent that it can be achieved in a small scale mode) and various of the model railway magazines hammered on for years in reviews about manufacturers falling short in that respect.  Thus cries from magazines, and the attitude of many purchasers have led to a massive improvement over the past few decades and take us streets ahead of where we were before even Mainline and Airfix took us, on what was for that time, a huge leap forward.

 

One result of this in today's market is that models which fall short, or are perceived by someone to fall short, are invariably the subject of criticism - whoever happens to 'make'/market them.  And many modellers who have grown used to continually improving standards aren't happy to see things take any sort of step backwards.  The key to getting it right is extensive and intensive research and continuous checking of what is going into a design and that takes time and, often, more than a soupçon knowledge about how things work on the railway or in model engineering terms, especially where Chinese factories have some very different ideas from the long established European and US ways of doing things.   

 

If you don't want that then fair enough - that is your personal choice; just as it is the personal choice of others to want it.  As far as I'm concerned in the early 21st century with vast amounts of information readily available, plus people with specialist knowledge who can assist or are prepared to sell on their own extensive research and knowledge there is no real excuse for producing a mish-mash that results in a pastiche of the thing being modelled.  All that does is queer the pitch for someone to ever come up with an accurate model - which might be what a lot of folk want - just as happened not so long back with a certain EM1 model.

 

Equally I definitely wouldn't be prepared to pay today's sort of prices for something which doesn't reach today's usual standards.  But, as ever, it is up to people to do what they want with their own money and if they are happy with something that is their choice.  But don't go round criticising those who are not happy (and are prepared to say so) because that too is their choice.  Equally unless I like what I can see of the standard of model being produced there is no way on earth I would pay any sort of advanced payment for it - but that again is a matter of personal choice.   If a company cannot fund its own investment I always tend to ask questions about that company and why they appear to not be financially committed to their business  - others might not of course; again a matter of personal choice.

 

 

[cctransuk]

9 hours ago, GWR-fan said:

 

I was being cynical quoting your exact words.  Too many who pre-paid are left with little recourse should they not be happy with the final outcome. Those who purchased from Rails might be able to return them for a refund,  but would the manufacturer accept returns other than warranty claims?   If many are happy, truly happy with no regrets,  then that is their prerogative. How the media handles this model will be very interesting.  

 

I have the Judith Edge kit, but ordered and paid for the KR RTR model as a quick way to a running loco - I now regret that decision. I will assess the model on receipt, but I suspect that it will end up on Ebay.

 

I'm afraid that this debacle is the sort of thing that I feared when I was initially sceptical about KR's due diligence - though it gives me no pleasure to say so.

 

John Isherwood.

[Matt C]

3 minutes ago, cctransuk said:

 

I have the Judith Edge kit, but ordered and paid for the KR RTR model as a quick way to a running loco - I now regret that decision. I will assess the model on receipt, but I suspect that it will end up on Ebay.

 

I'm afraid that this debacle is the sort of thing that I feared when I was initially sceptical about KR's due diligence - though it gives me no pleasure to say so.

 

John Isherwood.

 

 

 

Then Drop Michael an Email and ask him if he has someone on the books who would be happy to take over your order. I saw a few candidates on Saturday at MRS who were disapointed that they couldn't get one so I'm sure someone would be happy to take it on. No you won't be happy with it as you will always see it as flawed. Others will be delighted to own one I'm sure.

 

I assessed  the model in the flesh at MRS, it looked great, it looked just like the FEW photos ive seen on here, it looked UGLY which in a sense is what gave it its charm. Is it 100% Accurate ? No bloomin idea but I would be MORE than happy to have one of the 1000 + (?no idea how many actually) that will be out there ( No I Can't afford one). 

 

[Michael Hodgson]

All the squabbling is getting very tedious.  Just glad I'm not the one who has to moderate this site, I wouldn't have the patience.