KR Models announce the Fell in OO and N.

[Phil Parker]

1 hour ago, jonhall said:

I on the other hand, believe that it is a deliberate choice of KR to produce a 'compromised' model, and as I've said before about other items in their range, that might well be a perfectly reasonable business decision. Is it the way I would like to see the hobby going? = No,

 

I find this amusing because in other threads we've got people demanding less detailed models because that is the way the hobby should be going in their opinion.

[BR Blue]

On 01/03/2022 at 14:42, Phil Parker said:

 

I find this amusing because in other threads we've got people demanding less detailed models because that is the way the hobby should be going in their opinion.

You can never make everyone happy. I think there is a difference between less detail (moulded handrails instead of separately fitted metal ones) and less accurate whereby variations made to a piece of rolling stock over its life time are ignored, or in some cases, guesses are made as it is too difficult or time consuming to do research. We then get an impression of the model. A bit like the "generic" coaches. In this case I think the best description of these models is an "interpretation". It is up to each person to decide whether they want to buy or not, and hopefully in the full knowledge of the compromises that have been made and the level of accuracy that has been achieved. For myself, I have decided to pass on this one.

Edited March 3, 2022 by BR Blue
Spelling

[Jenny Emily]

For completeness, this is the green model. I swapped the bodies on the chassis during filming. 
 

[jonhall]

3 hours ago, Phil Parker said:

 

I find this amusing because in other threads we've got people demanding less detailed models because that is the way the hobby should be going in their opinion.

 

That's the thing with opinions. 

 

Jon

[Bucoops]

I have an idea - buy two, use a laser cutter and chop both bodies along the centre, mix and match, glue them together, voila! Two variants

[Tim Hall]

I understand that some people run locos (and coaches/ wagons) with different numbers on either side, thus appearing to increase the size of the fleet.

So IF the two sides of the Fell model ARE different and therefore representing different periods, then surely that's of benefit to those of us who don't base our layouts and fleets on one individual day/ year/ month? 

[GWR-fan]

If the two images in BR black were of two distinct models and not images of the same model then I would have happily purchased both models.  Yes, a lot of detail has been added to the detailing making a crisp looking body,  so such a shame that the detail is seemingly wasted.  As regards the possibly incorrect placement of the water fillers,  well,  that is one small detail I could happily overlook.  As I have stated previously,  if more thought had of been given to the tooling then at least three models could have been released, thus extending the production costs over three runs. 

 

Making the tooling for one compromised model,  while it most likely has recouped the initial tooling cost,  in the long run could have compromised the overall success of future variants.  Will there be a further production run in this guise,  quite possibly,  as it seems that many are prepared to accept the model as tooled.  This is a case of what could have been an excellent model if tooled to represent the variants in its lifetime and has more than likely killed off the chance of another manufacturer releasing a range of models specific to a period in history. 

 

As regards the "deliberate" decision to tool the model to represent the loco through its lifetime then I suggest a thorough reading of this thread and then decide if a mistake has been made due available research material sourced by the manufacturer at the time,  or a face saving exercise. 

 

The images show that this could have been such a very nice model,  if only..........

 

 

[ColinK]

From the photo a few posts above it looks like a very nice model to me.  Going to look even nicer in BR blue.

[96701]

4 minutes ago, ColinK said:

From the photo a few posts above it looks like a very nice model to me.  Going to look even nicer in BR blue.

Definitely the wrong version of the loco for BR blue. I think there may have to be a few extra holes burnt into the body.

[Oldddudders]

25 minutes ago, GWR-fan said:

If the two images in BR black were of two distinct models and not images of the same model then I would have happily purchased both models. 

Why buy two versions when there was only one of it? I always wonder why people buy such obscure, short-lived prototypes. But two?

 

In the mid-fifties, the BTC produced a poster, showing all the standard steam locos and sundry other BR products, including the Fell. My parents bought a copy for their 7-y-o son, and stuck it on the wardrobe door.  Jenny K's pics look just like the Fell to me. 

[Michael Edge]

We do run two versions of the Fell on our Chapel en le Frith layout (both accurate models from our kit), a black one with all the rods on and the later green version. We have a token system in the fiddle yard to ensure that they don't appear round the front at the same time.......

[Oldddudders]

10 minutes ago, Michael Edge said:

We do run two versions of the Fell on our Chapel en le Frith layout (both accurate models from our kit), a black one with all the rods on and the later green version. We have a token system in the fiddle yard to ensure that they don't appear round the front at the same time.......

And I can guess that not only is each model accurate - but the setting is right, too. The % of purchasers of the KR model who can claim the latter is small, I suspect. 

[Wagonmaster]

Personally, I'm going to wait and see what actually turns up on my doorstep rather than all this speculation. If it is the same as the black version I saw at Gaydon and in Jenny Kirk's photos, I will be a bit disappointed.  However, I suspect that if it is wrong regarding the number of nose grilles, then some helpful fellow modeller might produce some after market etches or something. Not ideal, but maybe the best we can hope for at this late stage. After all, I spent years sticking etched detailing on Lima and Hornby models!

[BR Blue]

I saw the interview, and KR models make the point that locos like the Fell were prototypes and changed all the time. Therefore it would be impossible to capture all the variations, or at least impossible without the costs going through the roof. They are catering to a demand and while they are not raising the bar in terms of accuracy or realism like Accurascale or RevolutioN, they are producing models that may never have been produced. They may have errors, which we used to accept in undersize Lima Deltics etc. but they do also have modern mechanisms. You do not have to buy them.  Personally I would have been happy if they made one version of the Fell as accurately as they could and not produced a FrankenFell

I think where some people object is when they claim they are highly accurate models, when clearly compromises have had to be made. As I said before, it is the consumer's choice.

Edited March 3, 2022 by BR Blue

[GWR-fan]

It would seem the majority of responses in this thread are supporters of the model.  Perhaps the majority of these members have a vested interest in supporting the model as they have fully paid up pre-payments and are willing to accept the model as tooled (something better than nothing).  I took action and contacted Rails to cancel my pre-order and they have confirmed that my order is cancelled.  The model in BR black, DCC ready, was sold out so there is now one more available.

 

I am asked why I would need to purchase two BR black models representing a different period in the locomotive's history when the model as tooled would fulfill my needs.  I see no point in answering that question. It may have been a serious question or it may have been tongue in cheek.

 

Another member referred to RMWeb members who criticise the model as highly objectionable nit pickers for having the audacity to expect a model to actually represent the locomotive and not be a caricature representing the model over its lifetime (pull the other leg,  it has bells on it).

 

Another response reminds us that Bachmann made an error in the incorrect numbering of coaches on a two car set and another that a respected manufacturer had misplaced a decal on one side of a wagon,  yet seemingly excusing another manufacturer for an entire side of a locomotive being wrongly tooled.

 

There was a market out there for the Fell and it apparently has been satisfied but there could so well have been a much larger market for a well researched detailed model.

 

A point seemingly lost in the Jenny Kirk interview was an ideal moment by the manufacturer to remind viewers that the Fell would be apparently available by Easter according to a recent newsletter.  He told us about the Consett wagons but no mention of a date on the Fell.  Oddly,  at this late date the only bodies being shown are seemingly the liveried bodies first shown back in September last year and possibly the chassis with sound highlighted mid last year.  It is odd that the manufacturer does not have production samples or at least a production sample to show.  The models are apparently due in barely six weeks.

[adb968008]

now its confirmed, Ive got to admit i’m dissapointed.

 

a 50% accurate model is not what I ordered.

I didn't order generics, cameos, nod-tos, russian jobbies, inspired by’s…. Minor niggles I can live with..

 

but this whiffs..

 

My two will either be returned, or resold.

 

I’m going to hold off ordering KR models in the future releases, theres always good chance of a retailer or a second run, so risk of missing is mitigated.

 

If i’m in the minority, returning or reselling shouldn't be an issue, but If I cannot accept short salmons, I cannot accept half a jobs either.

 

 

Edited March 1, 2022 by adb968008

[adb968008]

9 hours ago, Phil Parker said:

 

I find this amusing because in other threads we've got people demanding less detailed models because that is the way the hobby should be going in their opinion.

Less detailed <> Less accurate.

 

I can live with tediums, minor errors and things I can do myself. (Dutch 31/1 as a 31/4)

I can also accept compromises for cost, quality or detail. (18000, GT3, Lion, Kestrel etc)

I also am open to “point in time” models that might have only been 1 day (87001) or even never run (4464 at Margate)

I’m also open to reduced detailed models, to make it viable (71000)

I pay for a Fell to mitigate risk… by transferring the money I shift the risk of making a mess of kit building my own, over to someone else to make a ready to run model for me. I do not feel that the risk has been rewarded for my payment, as what i’m getting is not what I expected… it is not a Fell, its not even half a Fell, but a cameo of a Fell, with additional errors blended in… at best its 40% a Fell…the rest is open to interpretation.

 

Without considerable surgery, the roof will never reflect both sides accurately… thats before fixing the errors.

 

Set aside cost, Ask yourself, if you paid for a kit builder to make this, would you accept it ?

 

To me this is starting to sound like a Hungarian Orange… round, yellow, grows on trees, full of citrus and looks like, smells and tastes just like a Lemon.

I prepaid in full for two of these, if this is what i’m getting, All the best to KR Models, but i’m out…

 

Right now I feel cheated… I see they are at Alexandra Palace, and so will I, so i’ll hold my thoughts until then, and give them opportunity to hear their side. However this is what they said at the time…

 

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0153/3385/1190/files/Newsletter_18_-_The_End_Is_In_Sight.pdf?v=1599850919

 

Edited March 2, 2022 by adb968008

[Wagonmaster]

I agree that it would perhaps have been better to produce the model accurate to one time frame. At least it would have been right for one point in its life. However, as already observed, photographs showing both sides on the same day at the same location didn't apparently turn up until after tooling commenced. But let's just see what turns up, if it's that bad, I'll get the Judith Edge kit!

[GWR-fan]

4 minutes ago, Wagonmaster said:

............................................. However, as already observed, photographs showing both sides on the same day at the same location didn't apparently turn up until after tooling commenced. But let's just see what turns up, if it's that bad, I'll get the Judith Edge kit!

 

Perhaps you have not been reading the thread.  The manufacturer of Judith Edge kits spent years researching the prototype and may well have been reluctant to release a kit due the minefield that the prototype represented.  Another member stated that he researched the prototype ten plus years ago for a model to be produced but the project stalled.  There are people in the trade who had all the information required and if that information was available and possibly at a fee then the manufacturer could have reached out.  I could be mistaken but from memory somewhere back in the 35 odd pages of this thread a comment was made that research material was offered but refused. 

 

Did the manufacturer rely solely on his own research?  To say that the information was not available at the time tooling was authorised simply means that the manufacturer had not exhausted all avenues and relied most likely on his own recognisance.   The relevant information WAS available.   Read the entire thread and you decide if interested. 

 

If we look purely at one side of the model at a time then it is indeed a very striking model.  However,  unlike a 2D poster or an image of the locomotive,  a model is three dimensional and should be viewed as such.  When you are outlaying a six figure sum of more than likely other people's money then you have a duty of care to be diligent in all stages of production and that includes research.

[Les1952]

7 hours ago, BR Blue said:

You can never make everyone happy. I think there is a difference between less detail (molded handrails instead of separately fitted metal ones) and less accurate whereby variations made to a piece of rolling stock over its life time are ignored, or in some cases, guesses are made as it is too difficult or time consuming to do research. We then get an impression of the model. A bit like the "generic" coaches. In this case I think the best description of these models is an "interpretation". It is up to each person to decide whether they want to buy or not, and hopefully in the full knowledge of the compromises that have been made and the level of accuracy that has been achieved. For myself, I have decided to pass on this one.

 

And when you read through the threads on the generic coaches there are posts bellyaching that these generic models don't follow the prototype they want it to......

 

Les

[Michael Hodgson]

3 hours ago, Michael Edge said:

We do run two versions of the Fell on our Chapel en le Frith layout (both accurate models from our kit), a black one with all the rods on and the later green version. We have a token system in the fiddle yard to ensure that they don't appear round the front at the same time.......

If I had the two of them, I'd double-head my train

[69843]

5 hours ago, Bucoops said:

I have an idea - buy two, use a laser cutter and chop both bodies along the centre, mix and match, glue them together, voila! Two variants

"Do you expect me to model?"

'No Mr. Bond, I expect you to buy.'

[cctransuk]

21 hours ago, col.stephens said:

Personally I feel that this thread is now becoming rather tedious.  The arguments about research, or lack thereof, have been made and constantly repeating them will not alter the fact that we are where we are.  If the model is not your cup of tea then don't buy it.  If you can live with the errors and are happy to spend the money, do so.

 

What more can be said?

 

That's simple - the fact that many modellers were induced to pay - in full - for one or more models, on the stated fact that the model would represent a single point in time.

 

It doesn't, so it's hardly surprising that quite a few customers feel that they have been mis-sold a mish-mash of a model.

 

CJI.

Edited March 2, 2022 by cctransuk

[cctransuk]

DELETED

Edited March 2, 2022 by cctransuk

[cctransuk]

DELETED

Edited March 2, 2022 by cctransuk