New tooling - BR Standard 2MT 2-6-0 2MT 78xxx

[The Stationmaster]

20 hours ago, Wheatley said:

Oops. Yes you're quite right, I had two and I'd completely forgotten that. Only because they a) couldn't get the wretched Ringfield motor in there and b) already had the old loco-drive six-coupled chassis which had the right number of wheels and was therefore near enough. 

 

They were still dreadful.  

In some respects it was worse than that - the loco and tender bodies were both 'stretched' for some reason.  Almost understandable with the loco but why do that with the tender?  I adopted the simple, but rather frightening, solution of careful comparison with a drawing (Skinley I think) and choosing the spots to cut a slice out of both bodies.  That in turn meant an attack on the chassis of the engine (driving wheelbase left alone, too difficult for me) and a new chassis for the render (out of an Airfix Std 2-6-0 kit) which remarkably got it to the right buffer height without hacking or shaving anything away.  

 

But after a progress lapse due to working away from home for several years Bachmann announced theirs so the 'rebodge' retired to a dusty corner to gather even more dust.

[cctransuk]

1 hour ago, The Stationmaster said:

In some respects it was worse than that - the loco and tender bodies were both 'stretched' for some reason.  Almost understandable with the loco but why do that with the tender?

 

Probably in order to use an existing tender chassis tool.

 

CJI.

[stewartingram]

I remember years ago getting a conversion kit (was it Crownline?) to convert a Tg-Hy 46400 to the very similar BR 78xxx. It mentioned 2 ways to dos it. One was use the basic 46400, and end up with a stretched loco, which was way too tall (among other discrepancies). The other way was to do some extensive cut & shut to make it more to scale. There was however a complete etched tender in the kit. I made that and then put the rest on the roundtuit pile. Many years later, I got a Bachmann 46400 from the Doncaster show, s/h, at a very reasonable price (just as prices were actually rising very fast, never seen one anywhere as cheap since!). In addition, I also got the kit/scratchaid that Michael Edge produced, and ended up combining Baccy/Crownline/Edge in a presentable model. I completed it just before the new Hornby version was released, determined not to buy one because of the vast price difference from when first announced. (Though I still have to complete the lining on it). But...I succumbed, and now have a Hornby one too, with no regrets. Both can be stood side by side quite happily.

[No Decorum]

On 19/01/2024 at 22:33, Steamport Southport said:

 

Similar technique they used for Sir Dinadan.

 

I don't know what it was supposed to be, but was a bit like a King Arthur. Eventually they put photos of it in the dark in the catalogue hoping nobody would notice it....

 

 

http://www.hornbyguide.com/item_details.asp?itemid=15

 

 

Jason

I wanted a King Arthur but even I couldn’t stomach that. On the other hand, I remain fond of my ancient Hornby 2MT. That’s nothing to do with the model itself. Many years ago, I visited the SVR and was told that I was free to climb on any locomotive I wished so long as it wasn’t in steam. The 2MT was one, Leander another. Bliss! Those were the days.

[MikeParkin65]

Spent the weekend adding sound and the detail pack to 78047. Must say there is a lot of subtle improvement with this model that I hope is carried over to new models.

 

First is the fact the at the front pony wheel is held in place by a keeper plate so removing the axle set as one piece is possible. I was going to substitute with a Gibson (G4836ST) but to be honest the Hornby wheel is one of their better ones, it has the necessary bevel but the clincher was that there is a molded spacer on the back of the wheel to keep the tyre from touching the truck, without it the wheel is prone to locking up. Didnt have anything to hand to make the same arrangement with the Gibson set.

 

The supplied front footsteps have strange step like moldings on their reverse side. No idea what they represent but they impede almost all side play of the pony. Removed with a sidecutter. With the steps fitted the loco will just negotiate a 36 inch curve (the inner radius of a Peco large radius curved point) - I say just because initially it wouldnt but that turned out to be a bit of slightly misaligned track laying. Laid properly it will but it is the minimum I think.

 

Draincocks and both loco and tender brake gear fitted. The loco brake gear is novel in so much as the bottom of 4 of the 6 hangers are 'open' so the gear is snap fit rather than the usual way of having to bend the part to locate the pins in their holes. A big improvement BUT the third set a the old arrangement and the pins are too long and therefore bend as you try to insert them. Ended up snipping a couple of mil off each to fit them. Tender brake gear is traditional pins into holes but was an easier fit than the loco.

 

Sounded fitted mine with the Locoman project on a D&H decoder. Speaker is a sugarcube mounted in the middle size speaker box spare from the sprue supplied with Hornby TXS decoders. I cut away the bottom of the coal space to fit this and then mounted the chip (suitably protected in a piece of heat shrink off cut) on top. Secured and padded everything down with black tack. Locoman sound need a little CV tweaking to get the chuffs matched but the project itself is superb. A lovely aggressive bark on acceleration  and an active brake.

 

Must say this model has done a lot to warm me again to Hornby. Its well made, looks spot on, runs smoothly and has protoypical performance.

 

 

 

I

[The Stationmaster]

11 minutes ago, Ricochet said:

Agreed, not sure why it is that anything you see on Sam's Trains is immediately discounted on this forum. There should be a highlighting of potential issues with models. When you are paying up to and above £200 for models, why are we expected to just put up with whatever is served to us and be grateful for it? If the model struggles on second radius, and others clearly don't on the same track, that is an issue and i'm not sure why highlighting said issue would be taboo. 

But it's no more useful that a chocolate teapot if it's a bald statement that 'it struggled on whatever radius curve'.  What I would like to know as a potential purchaser is why it was struggling.   And indeed what is the reviewer's definition of 'struggled'.

 

If for example it struggled because the wheels were slipping that is very different from saying that it was overpowered by the load behind it or it was found that pick ups weren't working properly on a curve of thnat radius.

[Ian Hargrave]

1 hour ago, The Stationmaster said:

But it's no more useful that a chocolate teapot if it's a bald statement that 'it struggled on whatever radius curve'.  What I would like to know as a potential purchaser is why it was struggling.   And indeed what is the reviewer's definition of 'struggled'.

 

If for example it struggled because the wheels were slipping that is very different from saying that it was overpowered by the load behind it or it was found that pick ups weren't working properly on a curve of thnat radius.

I would suggest that struggles equates to slows down under load on a curve. Add in the gradient factor to the mix and if you look closely on a Smart Screen TV (mine has a dedicated YouTube app ) his track which in places is not pinned down. This is incidentally not unique in Sam’s crusade against Hornby can motors. The newly released 9F which most of us think is an excellent model sent him into a degree of indignation and led him to remotor it which is something he says he’s going to do with the 2MT but this time using a coreless specimen. If Sam is not happy then that’s up to him. Personally I’m happy with both the 2MT and the 9F.And let’s be quite clear on this…..neither model has “ issues “. My track is laid accurately pinned on a board.

 

  To conclude this post,I’ve coupled my 2MT to a rake of what’s currently on the board. : 5 new release Bachmann Bulleid coaches,the set coupled with magnetic couplings.This is about as much as its prototype would handle in its everyday existence in BR secondary passenger work .The coaches run freely (  something frequently overlooked ) but they are in rtr terms heavy. The only slow down occurs on a gradient “dip” and that is minimal. It is to be remembered that there is such a thing a load drag resistance on a curve in any case. Most rtr models will slow on a curve under load. To start a scare story about issues in this case is irresponsible nonsense . To compare this model with  a 40 year old crudity is ludicrous and an insult to my intelligence at very least.

 

 

 

[MikeParkin65]

22 minutes ago, Ian Hargrave said:

I would suggest that struggles equates to slows down under load on a curve. Add in the gradient factor to the mix and if you look closely on a Smart Screen TV (mine has a dedicated YouTube app ) his track which in places is not pinned down. This is incidentally not unique in Sam’s crusade against Hornby can motors. The newly released 9F which most of us think is an excellent model sent him into a degree of indignation and led him to remotor it which is something he says he’s going to do with the 2MT but this time using a coreless specimen. If Sam is not happy then that’s up to him. Personally I’m happy with both the 2MT and the 9F.And let’s be quite clear on this…..neither model has “ issues “. My track is laid accurately pinned on a board.

 

  To conclude this post,I’ve coupled my 2MT to a rake of what’s currently on the board. : 5 new release Bachmann Bulleid coaches,the set coupled with magnetic couplings.This is about as much as its prototype would handle in its everyday existence in BR secondary passenger work .The coaches run freely (  something frequently overlooked ) but they are in rtr terms heavy. The only slow down occurs on a gradient “dip” and that is minimal. It is to be remembered that there is such a thing a load drag resistance on a curve in any case. Most rtr models will slow on a curve under load. To start a scare story about issues in this case is irresponsible nonsense . To compare this model with  a 40 year old crudity is ludicrous and an insult to my intelligence at very least.

 

 

 

Agree and I think its incumbent on anyone claiming dissatisfaction with a models apparent performance on their own layout tests it on infrastructure to the same specification as the manufacturer designed it for. That means level and fixed track, adequate modern power supply, wiring and means of electrical connection stable, permanent, clean and sufficient for the track work been tested over. If you've only got enough power supply for a 6x4 trainset oval dont expect the model to run the length of the bedroom floor with 2 other circuits in use one of which has a circa 1975 XO4 powered toy working flat out on it. 

[Ian Hargrave]

2 hours ago, Ricochet said:

Agreed, not sure why it is that anything you see on Sam's Trains is immediately discounted on this forum. There should be a highlighting of potential issues with models. When you are paying up to and above £200 for models, why are we expected to just put up with whatever is served to us and be grateful for it? If the model struggles on second radius, and others clearly don't on the same track, that is an issue and i'm not sure why highlighting said issue would be taboo. 

One thing I think needs highlighting is that Sam is not a forum member. Above you will maybe read my take on this which is not from Sam’s perspective but my own experience with this model. You may also care to look at Mike Parkin’s post which neatly encapsulates the situation. Over the years,yes,I’ve listened to the judgment of others but in the main it’s my own decision. On very few occasions has it let me down. If you’re mentioning price,my 2MT cost me £179.But it maybe won’t have escaped your notice that things have become a good deal more expensive than they used to be and that price now seems average,like it or not. You’re obviously interested in this model,otherwise you wouldn’t be posting on this thread,so why not buy one and run it on your own layout. .?   Maybe trust to the judgment of other forum members. 
 

[MikeParkin65]

3 minutes ago, Ian Hargrave said:

One thing I think needs highlighting is that Sam is not a forum member. Above you will maybe read my take on this which is not from Sam’s perspective but my own experience with this model. You may also care to look at Mike Parkin’s post which neatly encapsulates the situation. Over the years,yes,I’ve listened to the judgment of others but in the main it’s my own decision. On very few occasions has it let me down. If you’re mentioning price,my 2MT cost me £179.But it maybe won’t have escaped your notice that things have become a good deal more expensive than they used to be and that price now seems average,like it or not. You’re obviously interested in this model,otherwise you wouldn’t be posting on this thread,so why not buy one and run it on your own layout. .?   Maybe trust to the judgment of other forum members. 
 

@Ricochet we had a similar discussion on the Bachmann 37  thread where you did say your problem with that model was down to your trackwork rather than the model itself. You can get a good idea about how Hornby test a model from the many views of their test track on the Hornby Model World TV series - still available to watch on MY5 catch up I think

[locoholic]

3 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

But it's no more useful that a chocolate teapot if it's a bald statement that 'it struggled on whatever radius curve'.  What I would like to know as a potential purchaser is why it was struggling.   And indeed what is the reviewer's definition of 'struggled'.

 

If for example it struggled because the wheels were slipping that is very different from saying that it was overpowered by the load behind it or it was found that pick ups weren't working properly on a curve of thnat radius.

Doesn't matter - if it's advertised as being usable on radius 2 curves, but isn't, the cause is immaterial. For £200 any model should be as advertised.

[Fair Oak Junction]

Has anyone else reported issues running them on R2 curves pulling rolling stock?

[HExpressD]

36 minutes ago, locoholic said:

Doesn't matter - if it's advertised as being usable on radius 2 curves, but isn't, the cause is immaterial. For £200 any model should be as advertised.

Not sure that's entirely fair, if a model is advertised as working on radius 2, it should probably work on any reasonably installed, reasonably clean example, not any and all. Plenty of track that could be too steep or out of level which any model could struggle on, both examples having nothing to do with the choice of loco 

[Steamport Southport]

40 minutes ago, locoholic said:

Doesn't matter - if it's advertised as being usable on radius 2 curves, but isn't, the cause is immaterial. For £200 any model should be as advertised.

 

What radius is train set track? I'm afraid I don't know all this R1, R2, etc.

 

As mine went around a Bachmann train set oval with no problems whatsoever. The one that came with the Midland Marvel set. It's the track I use for general testing and running in. I reckon if it doesn't work on that then it won't work on a proper layout.

 

Bought it as I wanted the loco and wagons.

 

https://www.hattons.co.uk/71905/bachmann_branchline_30_105_midland_marvel_train_set_with_midland_3f_3522_in_lms_livery_brake_van_in_lms_gre/stockdetail

 

 

 

Jason

[Fair Oak Junction]

7 minutes ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

What radius is train set track? I'm afraid I don't know all this R1, R2, etc.

 

As mine went around a Bachmann train set oval with no problems whatsoever. The one that came with the Midland Marvel set. It's the track I use for general testing and running in. I reckon if it doesn't work on that then it won't work on a proper layout.

 

Yes, the curves in the Midland Marvel train set are 2nd radius.

[Steamport Southport]

11 minutes ago, Fair Oak Junction said:

 

Yes, the curves in the Midland Marvel train set are 2nd radius.

 

Works fine then!

 

That's the Collectors Club edition straight out of the box with no parts added (apart from the factory fitted drain cocks, one of which fell off) and no fettling. I might change the steps and other parts for Comet ones so haven't added them yet.

 

I'm also just using the cheap controller. The GM one is in the loft with the old layout (now mostly dismantled).

 

 

 

Jason

Edited January 22 by Steamport Southport

[Fair Oak Junction]

Until I see multiple reports that they are struggling R2 curves, I'm inclined to believe they are fine. The opinions and experience of a single reviewer is not enough to condemn a model.

[The Stationmaster]

On 22/01/2024 at 16:04, locoholic said:

Doesn't matter - if it's advertised as being usable on radius 2 curves, but isn't, the cause is immaterial. For £200 any model should be as advertised.

I don't think it has been advertised as being designed for use on track laid on the floor has it?

 

I'll be clear about this, I doid initially wonder about t pre-ordering one of these although on reflection I decide that it was not geographically appropriate for my interests and i did.n't want yet another model that would put Rule 1 to fairly extreme test.  However I have in the past purchased, and will continue to purchase in the future if they suit my needs, Hornby models.  I am interested in reviews to help  inform my purchases although stuff I see on here written by 'known quantity' RMweb members (sorry to call you, and various others, a 'known quantity' Ian - maybe that should have been 'recognised quality'?) and established 'professional' reviewers/modellers with a known and objective track record in magazines etc are the sort I take notice off.

 

Thus I don't necessarily consider an incompletely worded comment about a model running on track laid on the floor as being the sort of 'review' that clearly and unambiguously informs me.  That's my choice - others will make their own choice

[Ian Hargrave]

9 minutes ago, The Stationmaster said:

I don't think it has been advertised as being designed for use on track laid on the floor has it?

 

I'll be clear about this, I doid initially wonder about t pre-ordering one of these although on reflection I decide that it was not geographically appropriate for my interests and i did.n't want yet another model that would put Rule 1 to fairly extreme test.  However I have in the past purchased, and will continue to purchase in the future if they suit my needs, Hornby models.  I am interested in reviews to help  inform my purchases although stuff I see on here written by 'known quantity' RMweb members (sorry to call you, and various others, a 'known quantity' Ian - maybe that should have been 'recognised quality'?) and established 'professional' reviewers/modellers with a known and objective track record in magazines etc are the sort I take notice off.

 

Thus I don't necessarily consider an incompletely worded comment about a model running on track laid on the floor as being the sort of 'review' that clearly and unambiguously informs me.  That's my choice - others will make their own choice

Which post had me returning to the 2MT box for its Operating and Maintenance Instructions.I quote: “The locomotive chassis may,from time to time,pick up fluff,fabric fibres and pet hairs which can become entangled in the gears and around axles.For this reason,it is not advisable to run the locomotive on track which is laid on a carpet.”

 

[Tony Wright]

On 22/01/2024 at 12:04, MikeParkin65 said:

Spent the weekend adding sound and the detail pack to 78047. Must say there is a lot of subtle improvement with this model that I hope is carried over to new models.

 

First is the fact the at the front pony wheel is held in place by a keeper plate so removing the axle set as one piece is possible. I was going to substitute with a Gibson (G4836ST) but to be honest the Hornby wheel is one of their better ones, it has the necessary bevel but the clincher was that there is a molded spacer on the back of the wheel to keep the tyre from touching the truck, without it the wheel is prone to locking up. Didnt have anything to hand to make the same arrangement with the Gibson set.

 

The supplied front footsteps have strange step like moldings on their reverse side. No idea what they represent but they impede almost all side play of the pony. Removed with a sidecutter. With the steps fitted the loco will just negotiate a 36 inch curve (the inner radius of a Peco large radius curved point) - I say just because initially it wouldnt but that turned out to be a bit of slightly misaligned track laying. Laid properly it will but it is the minimum I think.

 

Draincocks and both loco and tender brake gear fitted. The loco brake gear is novel in so much as the bottom of 4 of the 6 hangers are 'open' so the gear is snap fit rather than the usual way of having to bend the part to locate the pins in their holes. A big improvement BUT the third set a the old arrangement and the pins are too long and therefore bend as you try to insert them. Ended up snipping a couple of mil off each to fit them. Tender brake gear is traditional pins into holes but was an easier fit than the loco.

 

Sounded fitted mine with the Locoman project on a D&H decoder. Speaker is a sugarcube mounted in the middle size speaker box spare from the sprue supplied with Hornby TXS decoders. I cut away the bottom of the coal space to fit this and then mounted the chip (suitably protected in a piece of heat shrink off cut) on top. Secured and padded everything down with black tack. Locoman sound need a little CV tweaking to get the chuffs matched but the project itself is superb. A lovely aggressive bark on acceleration  and an active brake.

 

Must say this model has done a lot to warm me again to Hornby. Its well made, looks spot on, runs smoothly and has protoypical performance.

 

 

 

I

Good morning Mike,

 

I found the same issues you did regarding the front steps (what are the moulded-on pips on the inside for, I wonder?) and the brake rigging.

 

I fitted the supplied, clip-in, snowplough to the example I had to examine..........

 

 

It clips into the NEM pocket in the pony, but even a 4' radius curve proved beyond its ability to negotiate with the device fitted.

 

 

Little Bytham has a minimum radius of 3' on the main line, and it just bowled round those with ease.

 

The subsequent problem I found was part of the motion falling apart.

 

How I fixed it is on Wright writes.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

[Barry Ten]

On 19/01/2024 at 21:07, Butler Henderson said:

It was catalogued for 1974 but did not actually appear until early 1975

 

I remember seeing a new one for sale in Hamley's in March '75 when I was taken there on my birthday. I walked

out with an Oliver Cromwell instead as it was more appealing to me as a nine year old. I've still got Cromwell and

although it's a bit of a Trigger's Broom, it still runs on my layout.

[MikeParkin65]

8 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Good morning Mike,

 

I found the same issues you did regarding the front steps (what are the moulded-on pips on the inside for, I wonder?) and the brake rigging.

 

I fitted the supplied, clip-in, snowplough to the example I had to examine..........

 

 

It clips into the NEM pocket in the pony, but even a 4' radius curve proved beyond its ability to negotiate with the device fitted.

 

 

Little Bytham has a minimum radius of 3' on the main line, and it just bowled round those with ease.

 

The subsequent problem I found was part of the motion falling apart.

 

How I fixed it is on Wright writes.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

Evening Tony,

 

I’ll be interested to see what failed on the valve gear and how you fixed it.  The other plus I didn’t mention is that it will run through a 36 inch curve with the tender on the closer coupling which obviously massively improves the look. 

[Tony Wright]

1 hour ago, MikeParkin65 said:

Evening Tony,

 

I’ll be interested to see what failed on the valve gear and how you fixed it.  The other plus I didn’t mention is that it will run through a 36 inch curve with the tender on the closer coupling which obviously massively improves the look. 

Good evening Mike,

 

I put the 'cure' on Wright writes, not wanting to clutter up this thread.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[E100]

Just in case any body like me was on the fence I've just made my one of these my first purchase from Bure Valley Models. Don't have any affiliation but at £172 for 78054 with a Scottish shed plate and painted timken roller bearings it's hard to say no. The first batch are at £164. 

[Paul_sterling]

5 minutes ago, E100 said:

Just in case any body like me was on the fence I've just made my one of these my first purchase from Bure Valley Models. Don't have any affiliation but at £172 for 78054 with a Scottish shed plate and painted timken roller bearings it's hard to say no. The first batch are at £164. 

They're a good shop and good people to deal with. I've always had great service from them, so I hope you get the same.

Thanks,

Paul.