Corona-virus - Impact of the Health Situation worldwide

[sharris]

12 minutes ago, Sol said:

 

I guess that assumes that all students have Ipads & the like and the Internet website can  handle the extra load.

 

Certainly in Medicine (my faculty) it's policy to issue iPads to students.

 

Imperial College is centred around science, engineering and medicine - it would be hard to find a student without their own computer.

Edited March 15, 2020 by sharris

[Ron Ron Ron]

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/mar/14/scientists-urge-government-to-enforce-social-distancing-now

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-hundreds-of-scientists-accuse-government-of-risking-lives-over-covid-19-plan-11957715

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/03/14/elderly-left-isolated-abandoned-italy-death-rate-soars/

 

 

.

[Sol]

55 minutes ago, sharris said:

 

Certainly in Medicine (my faculty) it's policy to issue iPads to students.

 

Imperial College is centred around science, engineering and medicine - it would be hard to find a student without their own computer.

 

Just goes to show my lack of knowledge re students & learning...

[Ozexpatriate]

5 hours ago, Colin_McLeod said:

This is a thread on a railway forum so any ideas what this tank wagon may be transporting.

 

<pic> (rail tank car with "COVID-19" lettering)

Photoshop. It doesn't conform to proper reporting marks anyway.

 

By coincidence a Snopes article on this showed up on a feed Google decided I needed on my telephone. 

 

Edited March 15, 2020 by Ozexpatriate

[robmcg]

For what it's worth New Zealand is now 8 hours from closing its borders to all travellers except those who choose to do 14 days self-isolation. Cruise ships are banned until June .

Pacific Island travellers are exempt.

 

Mandatory self isolation is in this case in the form of voluntary action, the Government reserving the right to prevent breaches.

 

It is combined with requests to avoid crowds, avoid unnecessary contact, be hygienic, and to use common sense.

 

NZ currently has 6 known infections with Covid-19. All are in self-isolation, none in hospitals, no deaths. So far.

 

The NZ government will compensate the economic losses to tourism, airlines, travel and any other businesses affected,  with money borrowed, over and above our current 20% of GDP debt, which is below most Western nations.

 

Possibly this is not overly relevant to the UK, USA, Spain, Italy or other countries, but it is action taken on the advice of health advisors, epidemiologists, health boards and so on, although skeptics will say it diverts attention away from the Labour-led Coalition Government's very poor record of achievements. The National Party opposition nevertheless agrees with the measures taken so far.

 

I doubt it would work in the UK or Europe quite the same, NZ being two main islands and so on.

 

Time will tell how well this works. We trade heavily with China and that trade is recovering now from a big drop in Jan-Feb, expected to be nearer normal by May.

 

 edit; update, Australia has now closed its borders in similar fashion, it has 50+ covid-19 cases and 3 deaths so far.  NZ now has 8 cases and one suspected.  source; NZ public radio RNZ

 

 

 

 

Edited March 15, 2020 by robmcg
typos and additions.

[Oldddudders]

Draconian stuff is imminent, it seems, and parallels with wartime are valid. But looking at what China did, you would have to say it works. I believe Wuhan has 11m inhabitants, yet the total reported cases for the whole of China are not much above 100k, and the number of new cases is now dropping off the graph? Isolation works, period.

 

So I respect the intent of governments, French and British,  to limit mobility and keep the vulnerable indoors. A call to Sherry last night revealed that neither of us fancies being cooped up together in her - perfectly nice - flat for four months, and I need regular meds which UK may not be able/willing to dispense. So probably I will stay in my tumbledown cottage in an acre, with an option to ask my cleaner to become my shopper if needed, and Sherry will watch the world alone. She has nice views over a park.

 

Tough times, but better than being macho and risking demise, possibly infecting others on the way. Big picture. 

[mevaman1]

I have a poor immune system in remission from Leukaemia and seriously at risk.

 

I am really scared.

 

I ask those who are unhappy about the measures proposed to think of millions of people like me.  Please consider making severe sacrifices for mine and others benefit.

 

Andrew

[phil-b259]

2 hours ago, mevaman1 said:

I have a poor immune system in remission from Leukaemia and seriously at risk.

 

I am really scared.

 

I ask those who are unhappy about the measures proposed to think of millions of people like me.  Please consider making severe sacrifices for mine and others benefit.

 

Andrew

 

Its not so much of a case of being 'unhappy' about any of the measures being proposed (or indeed enacted in other countries) rather its the perfectly logical desire to see their implantation being based on the best scientific advice and not hysteria or simply copying other countries because of press / lone experts or emotional outbursts pull at our heartstrings.

 

That said, I recognise your distress - its undoubtedly a scary time having only just started to beat back another particularly nasty condition and I'm sure all on this forum don't want to make things worse.

 

However, it also needs to be recognised that while you, as a 'vulnerable person' naturally need to be extra cautious, it does not follow that others, who will not be coming into contact with you, necessarily need to follow the same advice being given to said 'vulnerable persons'.

 

With this outbreak there is more at stake than simply medical matters - we need to have NHS staff valuable to treat folk for starters, having them confined to home because they are having to look after children due to schools being shut is not helpful for example. Equally the potential of 'isolation fatigue' to set in and folk getting fed up with isolating themselves is not merely scaremongering - if folk are so easily panicked into stripping shops of loo roll despite many comments from Governments + retailers that this is completely unnecessary, then assuming they will 'play ball' with an extended self isolation period is rather foolish.

 

Ultimately we have gone beyond the ability to 'stop' the outbreak sweeping through the population - what Governments are now doing is effectively trying to manage the infection levels in such a way that health services and indeed other important things like the logistics network responsible for transporting food, medicine, medical kit (plus the ability to keep it running - so that means fault fixers and maintainers) are also functioning properly. Measures like mass school closures need to be carefully considered with all this in mind to ensure that if and when they happen, they do not adversely affect the overall ability of the country to function.

 

Edited March 15, 2020 by phil-b259

[Vecchio]

to give my 2 penny comment

 

I my opinion we have to be careful - we are going to destroy the worlds economy with extremely drastic measures. I see my pension pot already shrinking. So far it isn't 100% known how the virus spreads. Closing business, borders, education, social live - is this the right answer? 

In the end many more will suffer over a long time than those who got the virus. 

 

And yes, also I am in a risk group. 

 

Vecchio

[Liam]

1 hour ago, mevaman1 said:

I have a poor immune system in remission from Leukaemia and seriously at risk.

 

I am really scared.

 

I ask those who are unhappy about the measures proposed to think of millions of people like me.  Please consider making severe sacrifices for mine and others benefit.

 

Andrew

I’m scared too - not so much about me, as I’m lucky enough not to be in the ‘at risk’ groups, but I am very worried about my elderly relatives if they were to get the virus; one of whom has chest problems as the result of living in a tenement during her childhood with parents and siblings who were always smoking. If she was to get it then there could be very serious consequences.

[TT-Pete]

 

Seen written in the grime on the back of a white van at the builders merchant yard yesterday:

 

"No toilet rolls left in this vehicle overnight"

[spikey]

43 minutes ago, Vecchio said:

 ... I see my pension pot already shrinking ...

How fortunate you are to have one

[Joseph_Pestell]

8 hours ago, Chamby said:

Ironically, the people likely to be least impacted by this pandemic will be those who get the virus early, experience mild symptoms and then recover.

 

Knowing that you’ll inevitably have to face this devil sooner or later, I can see a lot of people just wanting to get it over and done with.  Especially if you are personally in a low risk demographic.

 

This really will be a test of our modern society, the governments approach is very dependent upon a sense of national collective responsibility, but the conflicting pressure for self-interest is strong.

 

 

 

Matthew Parris made much the same point on TV some time ago. The ultimate damage to everyone's lives might actually be less if we took the hit full-on, let the strong survive and accept that perhaps 2% of the population will not. Social Services and the NHS could be brought back into balance with 1.5M fewer elderly and chronically ill. To be a bit "biblical", perhaps we have to accept that there will be "plague and pestilence" once in a while.

 

I don't say this lightly. I have two underlying health issues which make me vulnerable. And it has come at a point in my life when I am also going through the stressful process of a divorce (which will probably now get delayed adding to the financial stresses) and trying to re-open a hospitality business which needs a lot of investment. I may actually be better off dead now than the living death that will ensue with the social and economic consequences that seem likely to be the outcome of a long-term shutdown. I suspect that the same is true for many others.

 

Just had a doctor (psychiatrist) on TV saying that the public should be told more about the Govt's advice. What good would that do? The Govt is the Govt and the next opportunity to change that is 5 years away. In any case, most people would not understand the information. Someone visited me on Friday with a 4-year-old with symptoms that could certainly be COVID-19. She believed that children could not be infected with it.

 

Edit to add: The child in question is her second stepson. She was going to pick up stepson #1 from school and then take both to McDonalds before returning them to their mother. I think we can learn from this that the Govt's messages are not getting through to much of the population. L is much brighter than much of the population but she is certainly not changing behaviour.

Edited March 15, 2020 by Joseph_Pestell

[beast66606]

The virus finally arrived in Norfolk yesterday with 3 cases being reported in the Kings Lynn area. Last night a case was reported in the Norfolk and Norwich University hospital. Ths was reported on a local news site which is often completely wrong on railway matters, where I know the facts behind the story and trying to validate the story is nigh on impossible with only one other report on ITV news, but this could well be fed from the first claim.

The NNUH website and twitter feed say nothing about it so advice on attending the hospital is impossible to find. The reason I'm so interested in the NNUH is my step daughter has an outpatient appointment on Tuesday and my Mrs will be taking her so they'll be in the area of the infection. I'm in a midly elevated risk area for age (60) but very high risk for respiratory and auto-immune problems so I would likely be in a bad way if I were to catch it.

It's not difficult to post a statement on the website and the twitter feed so the lack of information is very annoying and somewhat worrying and there is no excuse for not posting something about this - there will be hundreds, if not thousands, of people needing advice on attending appointments looking for clarification - like me/us.

[sharris]

In case you missed this in the news, this is advice from the French health minister- and is backed up by science:

 

If you are regularly taking an anti-inflammatory drug for pain relief (e.g. Ibuprofen, naproxen, cortisone), these suppress the body's immune system - consider switching to paracetamol instead.

 

As ever, if taken for an underlying condition, take doctor's advice before changing your medication.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/14/anti-inflammatory-drugs-may-aggravate-coronavirus-infection

 

[John M Upton]

It is not exactly helping that the papers and social media have been speculating furiously based on hearsay and off the cuff remarks from the political equivalent of the Man on the Clapham Omnibus over the weekend practically unchecked as the Government and associated public bodies don't work weekend's so it will be well into Monday before anything official is announced. 

 

It's a mess...

Edited March 15, 2020 by John M Upton

[Joseph_Pestell]

10 minutes ago, sharris said:

In case you missed this in the news, this is advice from the French health minister- and is backed up by science:

 

If you are regularly taking an anti-inflammatory drug for pain relief (e.g. Ibuprofen, naproxen, cortisone), these suppress the body's immune system - consider switching to paracetamol instead.

 

As ever, if taken for an underlying condition, take doctor's advice before changing your medication.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/14/anti-inflammatory-drugs-may-aggravate-coronavirus-infection

 

 

An interesting drug, Ibuprofen. Effective certainly but with many problems by way of side effects. When I was on large doses of it last summer, I had to come off my anti-depression medication. That proved to be a great blessing.

 

Anyway, given extreme ongoing pain with my broken rib, I had better find some Paracetomol - if there is any left on the shelves.

[Oldddudders]

10 minutes ago, sharris said:

In case you missed this in the news, this is advice from the French health minister- and is backed up by science:

 

If you are regularly taking an anti-inflammatory drug for pain relief (e.g. Ibuprofen, naproxen, cortisone), these suppress the body's immune system - consider switching to paracetamol instead.

I posted that last night, it having been announced by the French PM, who probably hadn't made it up, and someone responded that he couldn't see why it would be true. Some of us in this crisis only believe what we want to, apparently, even now. 

[Joseph_Pestell]

9 minutes ago, Oldddudders said:

I posted that last night, it having been announced by the French PM, who probably hadn't made it up, and someone responded that he couldn't see why it would be true. Some of us in this crisis only believe what we want to, apparently, even now. 

 

I was surprised that they are letting the municipal elections go ahead. Will they disinfect the polling booths between each voter? How will they deal with handing out the ballot papers etc.?

 

I did not say (I think) that I did not believe the advice about anti-inflammatory drugs. I said that I was surprised by it.

Edited March 15, 2020 by Joseph_Pestell

[sharris]

7 minutes ago, Oldddudders said:

... someone responded that he couldn't see why it would be true. Some of us in this crisis only believe what we want to...

 

Indeed, it would have been faster to google and find peer reviewed articles on why it makes sense than to write a reply contradicting it.

[Oldddudders]

3 minutes ago, Joseph_Pestell said:

 

I was surprised that they are letting the municipal elections go ahead. Will they disinfect the polling booths between each voter? How will they deal with handing out the ballot papers etc.?

I am cheerfully not involved. And, as an obedient 71-y-o, staying put at home. But some serious infection opportunities are in prospect!

 

My cleaner, her finally-moved-in-with-her lover and her three sons all went into Le Mans last night and dined in packed restaurant. Last chance saloon or wot?

Edited March 15, 2020 by Oldddudders

[Joseph_Pestell]

17 minutes ago, John M Upton said:

It is not exactly helping that the papers and social media have been speculating furiously based on hearsay and off the cuff remarks from the political equivalent of the Man on the Clapham Omnibus over the weekend practically unchecked as the Government and associated public bodies don't work weekend's so it will be well into Monday before anything official is announced. 

 

It's a mess...

 

It's probably not hearsay. It is unofficial Govt leaks to the Press to prepare us gently for the full-on announcement on Monday. It's how Govt works.

 

Bernard Woolley (Yes, Minister) had an irregular verb for this situation, something along the lines of:

I give off-the-record briefings

You leak

He has broken the Official Secrets Act.

 

I have an unopened boxset of Yes, Minister and Yes, Prime Minister. May get time to watch them over the next couple of weeks.

[Oldddudders]

I also feel the 'official leak' is a bit of a chance to test public opinion. If outrage is widespread then notching back a bit might be considered. Probably what they really wanted in the first place, in fact. Ask for more, settle for what you actually want. 

[Chamby]

8 minutes ago, Oldddudders said:

I also feel the 'official leak' is a bit of a chance to test public opinion. If outrage is widespread then notching back a bit might be considered. Probably what they really wanted in the first place, in fact. Ask for more, settle for what you actually want. 

 

Trouble is, information like this seeds panic as well.  It is just irresponsible IMHO.  We need clarity, not inconsistent and confused messages from government. 

 

If the supermarkets were bad yesterday, then goodness knows how things will be today!

[melmerby]

I see the panic buying is now starting to have serious consequences for those that haven't.

Some are unable to find basic items they need because the shelves are bare when they shop.

 

A chap from the the trade organisation was pleading for people to be less selfish so that others less fortunate than themselves can still get basics. I can see that having a lot of effect - not.

 

He emphasised that there wasn't a shortage of products, it was just the logistics of getting products to retailers and constantly having to re-stock the shelves.

Edited March 15, 2020 by melmerby