Hunslet 16" 0-6-0 Saddle Tank - 00 Gauge

[Gilbert]

9 minutes ago, NHY 581 said:

 

 

Hi Chris, 

I agree. A very handsome chap. I'm looking forward to toning things down a bit, once happy with the running. Final condition will mirror that of the Peckett behind. 

 

 

Hi Chris......

 

Very green. I'm toying with getting "Kermit" plates made up.

I looked at all versions at Lord and Butler today. We may see a second example arriving. Very impressed. 

 

 

Rob. 

 

 

Now I'm worried....

[franciswilliamwebb]

39 minutes ago, NHY 581 said:

Peckett behind

 

I'm sure you can get a cream for that 😉

[PenrithBeacon]

3 hours ago, Captain Kernow said:

 

Well, having examined the parts drawing in the manual, I'm very sorry indeed to say that it looks like the construction is fundamentally the same as the Model Rail 16XX.

 

There seems to be a large metal casting that comprises the saddle tank and also houses the motor and comprises the firebox sides, amongst others. There does NOT appear to be any separate firebox components.

 

My initial conclusion, with regard to putting one of Mike's chassis under it, is that it would be like the 16XX, i other words, far too much work for it to be a practical consideration. The body components (large metal weight just described, saddle tank, cab etc.) would have to be completely dismantled, in order to separate them from the footplate. You would then have to either provide your own firebox sides (and match the livery of the rest of the loco) and probably cut the large metal weight about and then re-assembled it, in order to have a body that can easily be detached from an etched chassis.

 

Speaking with my P4 hat on (as opposed to my OO hat), I have previously described the design of the 16XX and it's 'innards' as an abomination. I'm not seeing much to dissuade me of that view with regards to this loco, either.

 

Rapido - some of your contemporaries can manage to design and produce a high-spec 0-6-0 tank loco, where you can just unscrew some screws and the body comes off nice and cleanly. Why not you?

 

I haven't measured the axle diameter on mine yet, but PMP's photo seems to indicate something smaller than 1/8" or even 3mm, hopefully that's wrong and substituting Alan Gibson wheels, with their 1/8" axles, can be done easily.

 

I initially thought I might convert one of these to P4, when they were first announced, but once I saw how the 16XX was put together, I hedged my bets and ordered some AG wheels for my Judith Edge kit. If I had built that when I first bought it, it would have been an OO loco, but now it's going to be P4.

 

However, speaking with my OO hat on, this is a lovely loco and if the running qualities can be improved with some running in, I find it absolutely lovely.

 

I have found the coreless motor in my Hunslet doesn't like my AMR slow-speed (DC) controller, which I use for virtually all my other locos (including one or two that do have coreless motors). This means that, assuming my Hunslet goes forward to be a regular loco on 'Bethesda Sidings', I will have to remember to switch controllers when using it. Not a huge deal, as there is a Gaugemaster panel-mounted controller also wired into the control panel, but a little vexatious nevertheless.

 

Sorry if the above sounds rather negative, but I'm finding Rapido a supplier of contrasts, when it comes to P4 conversions. These first two steam locos (16XX and Hunslet) are almost unconvertable, if you are wanting to put an etched chassis, whereas the steam-age rolling stock (eg. the SE&CR opens) are a dream to convert.

 

Oh dear, that's a blow. Perhaps I'll just put it to one side and let it accumulate eBay £. From hero to zero in 9 hours or so 😫

[Kevin Johnson]

Order my Hunslet Beatrice from rails this morning. Looking forward to receiving her tomorrow.😊

 

[NHY 581]

By way of an update on my Arthur ( ?!!! )......

 

As mentioned, there was a tightspot running forwards and a rather abrupt, rather than a gradual halt in reverse ( less so going forward )

 

In addition, the axles were very stiff to move from side to side leading to bit of leaping about through pointwork. 

 

I decided to lift the chassis keeper plate. The three screws holding it on were extremely tight, overly so requiring a lot of effort to turn. 

Once removed, the keeper plate was literally stuck at the front of the chassis needing the insertion and gentle wiggle of a flat bladed screw driver to loosen. 

 

Inside, the was a lot of white grease over the brass pick ups and axles as well as the gears. The non driven axles were very sticky. I removed most of this grease from around the axles and the keeper plate as well as the excess from the gears. Axles now moved from side to side and didn't "stick".

 

The keeper plate was then replaced, the screws were tightened then backed off a quarter of a turn. 

 

Running was now a lot smoother. No apparent tight spot and the loco was much better negotiating pointwork. 

 

More running in required to try and improve the halting but getting there. 

 

Rob. 

Edited January 31, 2023 by NHY 581

[RapidoCorbs]

14 hours ago, scots region said:

Does anyone else’s model’s firebox glow make a loud buzzing noise? 

Hi Edward, may I ask which controller are you using?

[RAYTHEROCK]

On 29/01/2023 at 21:28, Phil Himsworth said:

I blummin' love mine; it is by far the cutest loco I have. As far as I can tell it is a model of an engine built while my grandad worked there, and (I discovered recently) it worked very close to where I lived for a while. It looks fantastic and I'm dead chuffed with it.

 

I had a spot of bother to start with as it is not tolerant of even slight kinks in the track; I had a couple of flexitrack joins on bends which had slight kinks in them that nothing else cared about but this does. The axles have a bit of side to side play but the coupling rods are quite rigid and don't have any play, so tend to hold the wheels in line strongly, so even if there's play on the axle left to take up bends in the track the coupling rod can pop the wheel off the track anyway.

 

A bit of violence with some pliers to bend the ends of the rails into a smoother curve and it's fine now though.

 

This was the first loco I ordered since getting back into the hobby after a break of nearly 30 years so getting one with a few family connections does feel a bit special, and the model has not disappointed.

 

 

Same here Phil; entry to goods/fiddle yard is via a 90 degree curve, laid to 30" radius with Tracksetta, and a joint halfway round. All the other yard locos, including a Peckett B2, Kerr Stewart and Austerity had no trouble, but that little kink at the joint was enough to send the Hunslet into the six-foot. Like you, a bit of brute fore with pliers to eliminate the minute kink which I had never noticed, cured the problem.

[Captain Kernow]

12 hours ago, PenrithBeacon said:

Oh dear, that's a blow. Perhaps I'll just put it to one side and let it accumulate eBay £. From hero to zero in 9 hours or so 😫

This is exactly how I felt about my 16XX, which was eventually sold on. I had purchased it, with the specific objective of converting it to P4, but eventually abandoned the notion, once it became clear that the major body rebuilding necessary meant that I may as well make up a kit in the first place.

 

My current Hunslet, however, was purchased with the aim of keeping it as an OO loco. Running at slow speed was far from perfect yesterday, but a very prolonged spell on the rolling road last night and also this morning appears to have improved matters somewhat. I shall try taking the keeper plate off next, as per Rob (NHY 581) post above and see what happens.

 

The finish on the bodywork is absolutely superb, though and it will be a shame to weather it, in one sense, but such a thing has to be done!

 

[rapidoandy]

Morning all,

 

Nice to see that everyone is (generally) very happy with their locos. Its been a labour of love for me as I have been lucky enough to drive and fire several of the preserved locos and I count them among my favourite types.

 

Firstly - if anyone has any issues with a model go onto our website and fill in our warranty form. We dislike sub-standard models and only want happy customers and will always do everything we can to sort them.

 

So to answer a few questions that have cropped up:

 

Brake function on DCC - Our market research showed us that this feature is split nearly 50/50 between those who like it and those who don't. Supplementing that with a further question to those that do - we found they are the more advanced DCC users who tend to want yo chose their own chip anyway due to preference. However those who don't tend to be "out of the box type". As a result we opted not to on this model -  but we will try it on a future release and compare the feedback. Another option is to set our project up with a CV that when turned on or off would give a "prototype" function or a "model railway simple" function which could include enabling the brake.

 

Lots of whistles - well after speaking with various ex-NCB crews there were different whistle combinations set for things like, setting forward, setting back, etc etc. So we recorded and included those. Sadly they got missed form being explained in the manual - one to add in the future.

 

Slow speed running - we do say in the manual that each individual model only gets about 30 seconds of testing. The lubrication does not get to work round fully and the gears to work in. If after some time you have issues do let us know. The lubrication grease on my models (which have done a fair bit of running as they were samples delivered a few months back) has worked round a bit and loosens up but I have seen some that are a little heavy on the stuff.

 

Removing couplings - i'm going to feed this back to the factory - on the samples they were tight but did pull out. However they are now too tight on the production models and required keeper plate removal on some which is a bit more involved and less than ideal,

 

P4 - EM etc. So our policy here at Rapido is that if we can make something work for the finescales without costing us any more money then we will do so. Our wagons are a good example of that (Scalefour News has an article on our SECR opens and the ease of conversion). I also speak to various people who model using said standards to seek advice etc.

 

However, if its going to cost us money, or mean we have to design it completely differently to accommodate the tiny percentage that use these standards then we cant do it. Its just economics. Our big survey we did a couple of years ago showed less than 2% of people were working to any finescale standard.

 

So why design the chassis like we have - well if you take a Hunslet and cut it in half then you will see that we have used all the possible space. Flywheel in the smokebox, motor in boiler and tank and driven down through the firebox with the speaker in the bunker. This allowed the proper daylight and some motion bits under the boiler. Some will say a flywheel adds nothing, we disagree and have done tests to show it is useful. Maybe we can put a smaller motor vertically in the firebox - but it would be smaller and not as ideal. As a result the model becomes completely integral. If it was a big side tank loco we might do it differently. Our factory that made this also like this format - its used around the world in other models - its just not so normal here.

 

I don't mean any of this to sound offish - I just like to explain our thoughts. I do look at feedback and comments and we take those forward into stuff into the future. Just remember the next model may not get it as that is likely to be fully designed and in production. It does take time.

 

I would love to see photos of peoples customised models - its always great to see different things.

 

Now to think about a second possible batch...

 

Happy modelling!

 

Andy

Edited January 31, 2023 by rapidoandy

[rogerzilla]

How different is the Austerity (or 18" Hunslets like Jessie, which is a precursor https://preservedbritishsteamlocomotives.com/hunslet-works-no-1873-jessie-0-6-0st/) to this 16" version?  A Jessie as preserved might do well, provided you capture its incredible whistle sound.

[PenrithBeacon]

1 hour ago, rapidoandy said:

[...]

P4 - EM etc. So our policy here at Rapido is that if we can make something work for the finescales without costing us any more money then we will do so. Our wagons are a good example of that (Scalefour News has an article on our SECR opens and the ease of conversion). I also speak to various people who model using said standards to seek advice etc.

 

However, if its going to cost us money, or mean we have to design it completely differently to accommodate the tiny percentage that use these standards then we cant do it. Its just economics. Our big survey we did a couple of years ago showed less than 2% of people were working to any finescale 

[...]

Ok I suppose although this modeller will take note and not buy any further Rapido locomotives. 

Way back in the 1960s as a junior draughtsman I was taught that to reduce the component count was good because it reduced costs and to simplify design was essential because it too reduced costs.

The designer of this product doesn't seem to be aware of these concepts but the the designers of Bachmann and Hornby products do with unintended beneficial knock on effects for modellers like me.

Enough of that, I'll take your hint and move on.

Regards 

[RapidoCorbs]

47 minutes ago, rogerzilla said:

How different is the Austerity (or 18" Hunslets like Jessie, which is a precursor https://preservedbritishsteamlocomotives.com/hunslet-works-no-1873-jessie-0-6-0st/) to this 16" version?  A Jessie as preserved might do well, provided you capture its incredible whistle sound.

 

A fair bit bigger 🙂 

 

 

The annoying thing about Jessie is that she is also different to the majority of 48150s (different cab and bufferbeams) - most of them were like my model above which has the deep bufferbeams, circular front windows and angled bunker. Jessie has shallow bufferbeams and an Austerity - style bunker.

 

 

[rogerzilla]

There's a man who knows his Hunslets!

[Phil Himsworth]

2 hours ago, RAYTHEROCK said:

Same here Phil; entry to goods/fiddle yard is via a 90 degree curve, laid to 30" radius with Tracksetta, and a joint halfway round. All the other yard locos, including a Peckett B2, Kerr Stewart and Austerity had no trouble, but that little kink at the joint was enough to send the Hunslet into the six-foot. Like you, a bit of brute fore with pliers to eliminate the minute kink which I had never noticed, cured the problem.

I almost don't mind because it even derailed in a cute way; the middle wheels stay on the track and it seems perfectly happy to just trundle along like this, see-sawing back and forth between the front and back axles like a dog wagging its tail... :-)

 

I had another decent running session with mine last night and had no problems at all. It pulls heavy trains up the fairly steep incline on my layout better than several much larger locomotives.

[Michael Edge]

2 hours ago, rapidoandy said:

 

 

P4 - EM etc. So our policy here at Rapido is that if we can make something work for the finescales without costing us any more money then we will do so. Our wagons are a good example of that (Scalefour News has an article on our SECR opens and the ease of conversion). I also speak to various people who model using said standards to seek advice etc.

 

 

It's not just a matter of the wheel standards for P4, full compensation or springing is required in locos. This is the main reason why there is a market for etched frame kits for rtr locos - and by the way I think your Hunslet 16" looks absolutely perfect! (sadly for our kit sales)

Judith and Michael Edge

[RJS1977]

Talking of "Jessie"....

[Ruston]

Question for @rapidoandy - Is there provision made for the fitting of a Stay Alive? I'm looking at the PCB inside the loco and I can't see any spare terminals where one could be connected. Are they on the other side of the PCB? I don't want to start taking things apart to find out.

 

Thanks

[298]

12 minutes ago, Ruston said:

Question for @rapidoandy - Is there provision made for the fitting of a Stay Alive? I'm looking at the PCB inside the loco and I can't see any spare terminals where one could be connected. Are they on the other side of the PCB? I don't want to start taking things apart to find out.

 

Thanks

 

...and is there any brown-out provision on the stock sound decoder? Don't get me wrong, I think stay alives are a fantastic provision to have, so much so that if I'm fitting them as standard then they might as well be included as standard.

 

4 hours ago, rapidoandy said:

Now to think about a second possible batch...

 

Can we have a Beatrice in original/as preserved green? I've shown a photo of the red Beatrice to 9yr old Beatrice here and she doesn't like being a dirty red colliery engine...

[Captain Kernow]

4 hours ago, rapidoandy said:

Slow speed running - we do say in the manual that each individual model only gets about 30 seconds of testing. The lubrication does not get to work round fully and the gears to work in. If after some time you have issues do let us know. The lubrication grease on my models (which have done a fair bit of running as they were samples delivered a few months back) has worked round a bit and loosens up but I have seen some that are a little heavy on the stuff.

Well, after about 4 - 5 hours on the rolling road, I'm pleased to say that my 'Alex' has loosened up and now appears to be a reliable-enough, slow-speed runner. Based on the latest trials this afternoon, I have no hesitation is proceeding with the weathering etc. and preparing it for service on my OO layouts 'Bethesda Sidings' and 'Bleakhouse Road'.

 

4 hours ago, rapidoandy said:

P4 - EM etc. So our policy here at Rapido is that if we can make something work for the finescales without costing us any more money then we will do so. Our wagons are a good example of that (Scalefour News has an article on our SECR opens and the ease of conversion). I also speak to various people who model using said standards to seek advice etc.

 

However, if its going to cost us money, or mean we have to design it completely differently to accommodate the tiny percentage that use these standards then we cant do it. Its just economics. Our big survey we did a couple of years ago showed less than 2% of people were working to any finescale standard.

 

So why design the chassis like we have - well if you take a Hunslet and cut it in half then you will see that we have used all the possible space. Flywheel in the smokebox, motor in boiler and tank and driven down through the firebox with the speaker in the bunker. This allowed the proper daylight and some motion bits under the boiler. Some will say a flywheel adds nothing, we disagree and have done tests to show it is useful. Maybe we can put a smaller motor vertically in the firebox - but it would be smaller and not as ideal. As a result the model becomes completely integral. If it was a big side tank loco we might do it differently.

Whilst (with my P4 hat on now) I don't appreciate having such a lovely product rendered out of reach for my preferred way of P4 conversion (replacement etched chassis), what I do most certainly appreciate is Andy's honesty and candour.

 

I have said on this forum in the past that we P4 (and EM) modellers are in a tiny minority of potential customers for these products, so it's hardly surprising that such commercial production and design decisions result in such an arrangement of components.

 

I will admit that, following my severe disappointment and vexation surrounding the 16XX, I had hoped that Rapido may have 'seen the light' and produced a model with the motor/chassis/bodywork configuration of (say) the Bachmann 94XX pannier or the newer J72.

 

I did, however, order a Hunslet with more that a suspicion that the innards of the loco would be the same as the 16XX. The difference here is that I really wanted the 16XX to be part of my P4 fleet, whereas I had already decided to keep the Hunslet as OO and order some P4 wheels for my Judith Edge kit of the same prototype. So now that 'Alex' (not his long-term name) is now a reliable runner, I am content.

 

4 hours ago, rapidoandy said:

As a result the model becomes completely integral.

Our factory that made this also like this format - its used around the world in other models - its just not so normal here.

Ah, but 'around the world' they generally model to a scale of 3.5mm to the foot and do not need to change the gauge, should they feel strongly about that kind of thing.

 

2 hours ago, Michael Edge said:

It's not just a matter of the wheel standards for P4, full compensation or springing is required in locos. This is the main reason why there is a market for etched frame kits for rtr locos - and by the way I think your Hunslet 16" looks absolutely perfect! (sadly for our kit sales)

Mike is right, of course, with regard to P4, although I have a few converted RTR locos that have minimal springing only, such as the Bachmann 57XX pannier.

 

Generally, though, the main reason I build replacement etched chassis in both P4 (and often in OO as well), is that not all RTR manufacturers seem capable of supplying consistently smooth and slow running locos, even after extensive running in. Compensation or springing also improved electrical pick up quite considerably, too.

 

With regard to conversion of this Hunslet to P4, there is a way to achieve it, but it is long and arduous, especially if you have no access to a lathe and relies on you getting some steel rod of the identical diameter to the Rapido axles.

 

The axles (as measured by me this afternoon in a rather rough and ready way) seem to be about 2.3mm or 2.4mm. The options would either be to mount Alan Gibson wheels in reduction bushes (o/d 1/8" to i/d 2.3mm or whatever it is), remove the Rapido final drive gear from the OO axle and mount it on the new, longer axle and then put the whole lot back into the Rapido (?bronze?) axle bushes and re-mount in the chassis, taking care to put sufficient bushes outside the bushes as well.

 

Alternatively, if the Rapido drive gear and bushes are capable of being reamed out to i/d 1/8", then they could be used in conjunction with Alan Gibson 1/8" steel axles. Such a conversion would, of course, not be sprung or compensated and (if in P4) you would need to have pretty good, level track.

 

You may also have to do something with the Rapido keeper plate and (ingenious) brake gear assembly, to ensure they cleared the P4 (or EM) wheelsets.

 

[Captain Kernow]

5 hours ago, rapidoandy said:

Scalefour News has an article on our SECR opens and the ease of conversion

I also offered an article on exactly the same conversion, but was 'pipped to the post' by the chosen author!

 

I have since converted a 2-plank wagon and that was equally easy to convert.

 

[rapidoandy]

1 hour ago, Ruston said:

Question for @rapidoandy - Is there provision made for the fitting of a Stay Alive? I'm looking at the PCB inside the loco and I can't see any spare terminals where one could be connected. Are they on the other side of the PCB? I don't want to start taking things apart to find out.

 

Thanks

Sadly not on this - I wanted to but for various reasons I wont go into its not something that was provided. It is something we are actively working on with our Canadian counterparts and electronics engineers.

[Dragonfly]

Brought a couple of mine to the clubroom this afternoon for a run in while soldering up some layout wiring, and noticed my Holly Bank kept falling off. On inspection underneath, one of the axles (camera right) appears to be wider and bent somewhat... Any thoughts about repair methods? Or return to retailer?

[PaulRhB]

13 minutes ago, Dragonfly said:

Brought a couple of mine to the clubroom this afternoon for a run in while soldering up some layout wiring, and noticed my Holly Bank kept falling off. On inspection underneath, one of the axles (camera right) appears to be wider and bent somewhat... Any thoughts about repair methods? Or return to retailer?

Return it to the shop first is standard but give them a call as they may advise direct contact, Rapido have an excellent warranty service. I’ve used it twice for advice and a part and they are keen to sort any issue 

[rapidoandy]

Feel free to come straight to us. That’s certainly not right and I’d like to take a look at it.

Head to our website and fill in our warranty form - we can get a postage label to you to return the model at our cost to sort out.

 

My apologies!

[davknigh]

Had the pleasure of running my “Arthur” today after giving a running in session on rollers last night. I noticed a couple of things, Arthur is happier on track than rollers which suggests I should check to make sure my rollers are level, and when tested to the limit (a rake of 9 coaches) he draws more current rather than letting his wheels slip which concerns me a little. One other small thing, after reading through the instructions (!) I went to the website in the hope of downloading a larger version of the exploded diagram. I could not find anything larger than the one on the instruction sheet. Will this be remedied in the not too distant future?

 

Cheers,

 

David