Hornby 2021 - 9F new tooling

[RedgateModels]

1 minute ago, G-BOAF said:

The Bachmann model has a diecast footplate, and the lower part of the firebox is diecast into the boiler weight/motor housing. the boiler itself is plastic on the Bachmann model.

 

Indeed 🙂

 

[Ian Hargrave]

9 minutes ago, Black 5 Bear said:

The problem was with the motor not the set up.

Some S15's were fine, others weren't!

In any case, if the motors are found to be inadequate/defective I'm sure purchasers will be be returning these locos to Hornby for replacement within the 12 month guarantee period.

Sorry, but you appear to have a bit of a downer on Hornby!

We’re actually not certain that they are in fact the same in any case,even though it points in that direction. The S15 and the B12 were released quite a long while ago so it’s impossible to draw any conclusions after such a length of time.For now in my own case,having run it under load quite extensively since Thursday last,I report no defects in running and in fact ( as is posted elsewhere on this forum with regard to Hornby models in general)there is a gradual improvement . My own issues with it lie as I have posted elsewhere. It remains a damned good model.

[Ian Hargrave]

1 hour ago, Trevor Hammond said:

In response to a question on Hornby's Facebook page they state that these are new and thoughly tested motors.  They do mention they cannot be responsible for other people's trackwork and electrical systems.😂😂😂

And to be fair,I have made exactly the same point in posting on this forum in response to a view of Sam’s shock/horror carpet spectacular of the 9F. It may be  that their Facebook post is in fact a response to this “critique “ ? 

 

[G-BOAF]

8 hours ago, adb968008 said:

A quiick comparison…

 

Bachmanns 9f is 2005..

Weight 399g without tender, 483g with

starts at 0.8amp, tops at 0.16amp. (slower top speed but then it is a freight engine)

 

Hornbys 9f is 2022

Weighs 393g, without tender, 474g with.

starts at 0.5amp, tops at 0.19amp. (Greater crawl speed, and control, and a slightly faster, but probably unnecessary top speed).
 

Dimensionally on length, Hornbys 9f and Bachmanns are the same length, proportions of firebox, to boiler, to smokebox align, though the join of boiler to smokebox is larger on Bachmann's, and the safety valve plates are different designs. Chimneys are pretty much identical. Bachmanns does have a boiler seam line.

 

 

Where they differ is finesse.. on Hornby the pipework is crisper, the buffers are more detailed, with bufferbeam steps, the rivetting on the bufferbeam, around the boiler, smokebox is crisper.

 

The valve gear is more detailed, inc oiling cork. The footplate roof vent is adjustable, the driver/firemans cab windshields are present. The footplate detail is in greater relief and painted. The tender coal looks more true to life.

 

What is it missing, I think the boiler seam line should be there along the top, and the 3 smoke deflector retainers in between the smoke deflector and smokebox. There is a wonky handrail that could be teased down.

 

 

 

 

Finally the  driving wheels, including the hollowed part of the axle, lack of plastic bushing.. the finer scale coupling rods. Whilst it still has hex screws, there isnt a 3mm screw in the centre wheel holding it together. Pipe work under the running plate is present.

 

 

 

 My Bachmann one might be a little old and dusty, but there is nothing intrinsically wrong with it. I wont be selling it. But the Hornby one is where it should be, its 17 years newer and it shows it. It goes back to my belief that tooling something made since 1995 isnt always beneficial.. I will buy 3x 78xxx’s but i’m not sure I need 3 more 9f’s… this one only came as my older Hornby 92220 is just too old, and Bachmanns recent offering had the tender lining a very noticeable scale ft too low on the tender.

 

I may however source a replacement pony wheel.., for both of them.

 

 

 

But as 2020’s era steam models go, Hornby has made it to that standard.., I didnt feel that with any of their recent pacifics, or the King. It is a big improvement on the Crosti ( which was Railroad), This model imo deserves the credit it gets.

 

 

This is a quite remarkable comparative set of pictures. The Hornby model does have a bit more crispness and finesse than the Bachmann model, including in the motion and the detail on the frames to name but two areas. Also the reprasentation of hte lubricator boxes on the chassis block 

 

One thing that stands out is that Hornby have not got bolt detail on the front sloping front plate above the bufferbeam (but have it on the running plate above the buffer beam - clearly due to tooling limitations you can't have both - see elongated rivets on the early AS Manor test shots.

 

The Hornby model is also missing out on the brackets along the top of the smoke deflectors (that hold them to the smokebox for much of their length). This is a shame, but could possibly be rectified with some scrap nameplate brass fret.

 

I always thought the Bachmann 9F was excellent. A few years ago when I got a Hornby Britannia I put the two side by side and was rather alarmed but how crude some areas of the 9F were. What is interesting is that the Brit and the 9F originated from almost the same time. So maybe its not exactly that the Hornby 9F is up to 2020s standards, but that Hornby, when they get it right, seem to exceed Bachmann...

 

This is compounded by sloppiness in recent Bachmann releases (already mentioned by others the incorrect positioning of tender lining on Evening Star - indeed all since the first batch have not been perfect). For me the clincher is the poor decoration of my Bachmann Evening Star and the mechanism of the Bachmann model (lack of bearings, as well as tender pickups) that is persuading me to get the Hornby model. The problem is I will need to replace my other 9F to match (late crest with 1C tender please Hornby) ... good thing I never got it professionally renumbered from 92249 to 92240* in the end!

 

(*yes incorrect 1B tender for as preserved 92240, I know)

 

EDIT - firebox/boiler join on the Bachmann model is just wrong - the interface on the barrel should be a straight line, and it is bowed on the Bachmann version. I admit until now I had not noticed it, and only through looking at prototype pics could I determine which one was right.

 

Note also the the two 'bolts' on the bottom of the smokebox door ring do appear to vary in location. E.g. on on the two non-scrapyard restored 9Fs they vary; on 92203 they are as modelled by Bachmann (in the middle of the ring). On 92220 they are as modelled by Hornby (at the top edge of the ring). This is all getting a bit involved...

Edited September 28, 2022 by G-BOAF

[G-BOAF]

1 hour ago, thetrains said:

Which is why I judge a model by what it looks like at 15" plus, not under a magnifying glass or close up pics, i can find loads of faults with my Accu Deltic under close up, but not when running and I am not even an expert on any loco.  Either of these makes of 9F would look great to me in normal use.

 

 

I'm interested - what are the multiple faults on the Accurascale Deltic: window frames and rivets, height of bogie frame, fit of side windows, some moulding lines/tool interfaces. Beyond this, its hard to fault... (o/t for this thread)

[mattingleycustom]

Shiny buffers and wheel rims on the Hornby model are the only real let-down (aren't they on all of their models?). However the RH cabside number on 92220 is not central within the lining panel.

 

I will purchase a black one and look forward to seeing it pulling a 'proper' load of wagons.

 

Glenn

 

[Bulleidboy100]

My only comment is that there was only one nameplate in the bag - and they are plastic - looks like a call to Fox Transfers for brass etched plates.

[davidw]

On 27/09/2022 at 14:25, adb968008 said:

Well someone at Hornby has clearly been listening to customer feedback….

 

 

The spaceship comes in a spacious box… competes the Accurascale Deltic for size..

 

 

The shade of green is probably the best render ive ever seen on a Hornby model…

 

 

i’m also a big fan of the attention paid to the wheels (apart of the front pony) and having a solid wheel rim makes quite a bit of difference to the older Hornby models.

 

the proportions look right, the wheels are the area I always look too as with newer models there is a tendency to getting the top right but cutting corners on the bottom… but look at the valve gear..

 

 

This 9f has a lovely feel and shape to it, the boiler proportions look better, it is all around stronger / crisper than its Bachmann rival.(just hiding in the top corner is that Rubix cube that found fame in a Geoff Marshall video last week)

 

The tender too feels a stronger crisper proportion than its Britannia rival, a lot more separetly detailed pieces like tender well steps, tank lid.

 

and compare the motion with the real thing..

Weighs in at 393g, without tender, 474g with.

I got this to start turning the wheels at a very credible 0.05a and tops out with a good turn of speed at 0.19amp… so engineered for slow speed control and a reasonable top speed.

 

All credit to Hornby, this is at the standard, i’d give it 9 out of 10… they still need to sort that pony wheel but theyve done a great model here…indeed in steam outline i’d say its their best effort todate, just pipping the Original MN, on the green shade being better….

 

let this be the benchmark for consistency going forwards, but i’m extremely impressed… for all the critiscms Hornby has had over quality this one definitely rides above it.

 

Is it my imagination or is the "Evening Star" name plate a little low?

[Hilux5972]

48 minutes ago, davidw said:

Is it my imagination or is the "Evening Star" name plate a little low?

Bad angle for prototype but does look like it’s not level with the bolt. Also looks like the commemorative plate isn’t level with the top of the steam pipe so id say they are printed slightly too low. 

[davidw]

5 hours ago, Hilux5972 said:

Bad angle for prototype but does look like it’s not level with the bolt. Also looks like the commemorative plate isn’t level with the top of the steam pipe so id say they are printed slightly too low. 

If it's low at all it's not by much....

[GWR-fan]

I am a little surprised as to not a rash of Bachmann 9F locomotives on the Hattons pre-owned pages.  Could the Bachmann model more than satisfy those who have them.  I was hoping to get one at a slightly reduced price as people disposed of their Bachmann models to get the supposedly superior Hornby version.

[jjb1970]

I was thinking about getting one but on reflection am happy with the Bachmann examples I already have.

[Johan DC]

3 hours ago, GWR-fan said:

I am a little surprised as to not a rash of Bachmann 9F locomotives on the Hattons pre-owned pages.  Could the Bachmann model more than satisfy those who have them.  I was hoping to get one at a slightly reduced price as people disposed of their Bachmann models to get the supposedly superior Hornby version.

There wasn't really a deluge of Deltics or Class 37's either. So maybe a little soon? 

[Bazza]

It's not really a quantum leap in accuracy from the Bachmann model, and with prices as they are these days, I'm not surprised there has not been a deluge of cascaded 9fs. It is more difficult to justify a like for like replacement at these prices. You might do better if you want a Manor later this year! Bazza

[davidw]

6 hours ago, GWR-fan said:

I am a little surprised as to not a rash of Bachmann 9F locomotives on the Hattons pre-owned pages.  Could the Bachmann model more than satisfy those who have them.  I was hoping to get one at a slightly reduced price as people disposed of their Bachmann models to get the supposedly superior Hornby version.

I understand the sentiment of this. But I've 4 9f's for my ECML layout two single chimneys and two double. All with the big 1F tender. There's no doubting that the Hornby model is very crisp and  finer than the Bachmann version. But IMHO not by much. I bought my Bachmann versions over the last 10/15 years. They're strong and reliable . With a little weathering really come to life. The Hornby versions are retailing at a very high RRP - discounted  still £200+ the Bachmann versions were considerably less. I'm not wanting to rain on anyone's parade but costs are shooting up. We'll all judge value differently and have different pressures, I think when/if Hornby release high detail tyne dock/crosti versions the demand my be different. 

 

Just a thought

[RedgateModels]

1 minute ago, Bazza said:

It's not really a quantum leap in accuracy from the Bachmann model

 

That's not the point as far as Hornby is concerned, it's a leap forward from their last version 😉

[davidw]

4 hours ago, RedgateModels said:

 

That's not the point as far as Hornby is concerned, it's a leap forward from their last version 😉

That's a very good point.... 

Edited October 4, 2022 by davidw

[MikeParkin65]

9 hours ago, GWR-fan said:

I am a little surprised as to not a rash of Bachmann 9F locomotives on the Hattons pre-owned pages.  Could the Bachmann model more than satisfy those who have them.  I was hoping to get one at a slightly reduced price as people disposed of their Bachmann models to get the supposedly superior Hornby version.

I think this is testament to the fact that the Bachmann model is very fine indeed so apart from people buying a Hornby 92220 (of which of course there is only one) and therefore replacing the Bachmann 92220 most people will simply be adding to their stock. I'd almost say beware older ebay Bachmann 9fs as hard used ones may well have worn chassis (no bearings fitted) which can lead to erratic running and shorting.

[Neil]

11 hours ago, GWR-fan said:

I am a little surprised as to not a rash of Bachmann 9F locomotives on the Hattons pre-owned pages.  Could the Bachmann model more than satisfy those who have them.  I was hoping to get one at a slightly reduced price as people disposed of their Bachmann models to get the supposedly superior Hornby version.

 

5 hours ago, RedgateModels said:

 

That's not the point as far as Hornby is concerned, it's a leap forward from their last version 😉

 

I think there are a couple of possibilities.

 

A/ Potential customers spooked by what's going on in the economy at the moment and choosing to stick with what they've got.

B/ Potential customers making an assessment that the model they have is good enough and see no reason to replace it.

 

I would be in the B cattegory, I'm perfectly happy with my slightly warmed over Railroad (loco drive) 9F as a layout loco.

 

 

Of late I've thought that the clamour around new and updated models, particularly for those not going in a glass case, has elements of the Emperors new clothes about it.

 

[MikeParkin65]

4 hours ago, thetrains said:

This looks fine to me viewing on PC at about same distance as on layout + photo depth = about 2ft real view.  My regret is I never got a late RR one with NEM pockets.

Count yourself lucky - the tender chassis suffers mazak rot! Mine is now coupled to a Bachmann tender :)

[MidlandRed]

The new Hornby 9F is an excellent model and runner, but apart from that, ticks a number of other boxes including having the driving wheels at the correct spacing. However a big thing for me is the modelling of one of the three mechanical stoker fitted LMR machines - although the extra gubbins is hidden away in the tender and (visible) in the cab. I don’t think this has been modelled previously by either Bachmann or Hornby. 

 

I can understand some people who already have Bachmann models not buying the new Hornby (and others on this forum who wouldn’t buy any Hornby model for other reasons) but the impression I have is they’re selling plenty of them. I certainly love mine and am very pleased with it. I had no intention of buying a steam model but when this was released just had to have one (92167). 
 

I visited the GCR gala last week and comparing the photos I took of 92214 there with the model, am even more impressed with the model (although 92214 is, of course, in fictitious, for that loco, BR green with a fictitious name). 

 

 

Edited October 4, 2022 by MidlandRed

[jjb1970]

I think it is indeed excellent. I would be delighted to have one. The only things persuading me not to buy are that the Bachmann model is still excellent and I would rather buy things I don't already have rather than replace good models I am still very happy with. That's not a criticism of the Hornby model, it's more praise for Bachmann. I think this will be increasingly common, I feel the same about the Heljan 45, and although I have a couple of the latest Bachmann 47's which are excellent I think the older Bachmann model is still excellent and holds up well so I won't be replacing them. We are spoiled really.

[Ian Hargrave]

A feature with this model that I’ve noticed is its solid,robust build quality. I’ve become more confident when handling it.Something that perhaps we’re not used to with Hornby lately. The finish is of a high standard. 

[Woowooo437]

My 92167 is slowly circling the layout as I write this. Its smoother and quieter than it was a week ago. Pulling 14 Bachmann 20t tank cars,  a 7 plank and a 20t G Van. Did I have to have it? No. Am I enjoying it? Yes. Just wait until my zimo MS 440 gets here (SC, USA) . Reminds me of the Birkenhead 9Fs working through Nottingham Vic to Colwick in the early 60's. Whats the odds I get a Hornby Crosti when they produce it? 100%.   

 

Edited October 6, 2022 by Woowooo437

[curlypaws]

After a number of bad experiences with Hornby B1s I had pretty much given up on them. But positive mentions of the 9F meant that, rather than wait for the next Bachmann shipment, I took the plunge. And I'm very glad I did - it is a lovely model indeed. Well put together and runs smoothly. My 92194 is fitted with one of Locoman's D&H sound chips and it sounds magnificent. The packaging was superb too - which is a much needed improvement.

 

I'll need to keep a more open mind on Hornby again now.