Hornby 2021 - 9F new tooling

[Flyingscotsmanfan]

On 04/10/2022 at 20:16, MikeParkin65 said:

Count yourself lucky - the tender chassis suffers mazak rot! Mine is now coupled to a Bachmann tender :)

I don’t suppose you have any pictures of the connection please? I’m looking at doing the same thing and would like to see your version before I order bits

[andyman7]

One thing this thread seems to emphasise is that due to Hornby using multiple factories, experience of the build quality of one model does not necessarily reflect the likely quality of another. The impression so far of the 9F is of a solid production, good finish, bits not dropping off all the time, well packaged. 

[MikeParkin65]

11 minutes ago, Flyingscotsmanfan said:

I don’t suppose you have any pictures of the connection please? I’m looking at doing the same thing and would like to see your version before I order bits

Haven't coupled them yet but I anticipate it will by usual method which is make a new drawbar (so I can get closer coupling) which will replace the Hornby one and use the loco end screw then add a longer peg to the Bachmann tender. I wont need the tender pick ups reinstating as I have live frogs on the points and its a big long chassis already,

[adb968008]

On 04/10/2022 at 09:09, RedgateModels said:

 

That's not the point as far as Hornby is concerned, it's a leap forward from their last version 😉

Makes you wonder who the designer was, its almost as if whoever designed Bachmanns 9f returned 15 years later to have another go.

 

 

 

[Ian Hargrave]

On 06/10/2022 at 10:44, MikeParkin65 said:

Haven't coupled them yet but I anticipate it will by usual method which is make a new drawbar (so I can get closer coupling) which will replace the Hornby one and use the loco end screw then add a longer peg to the Bachmann tender. I wont need the tender pick ups reinstating as I have live frogs on the points and its a big long chassis already,

Before you do .I saw and spoke with SK at GETS this afternoon.They are fully aware of this and a fix is on the way in the form of an alternative bar.I did express disappointment about the current problem but it seems help is on the way. Two gorgeous 78XXX on display.March next apparently…always  of course provided a combination of Covid and Chinese New Year doesn’t disrupt production. 

[No Decorum]

15 hours ago, Ian Hargrave said:

Before you do .I saw and spoke with SK at GETS this afternoon.They are fully aware of this and a fix is on the way in the form of an alternative bar.I did express disappointment about the current problem but it seems help is on the way. Two gorgeous 78XXX on display.March next apparently…always  of course provided a combination of Covid and Chinese New Year doesn’t disrupt production. 

Oh well done! If only SK had been on the ball earlier and provided alternative bars for the Duchesses. I fettled one up but it was surprisingly difficult to get just right. I’m a bit cack handed. As for the 78XXXs, has Hornby finally thrown out the tins of soapy paint? The new 9Fs seems to indicate improvement in that area.

[MikeParkin65]

On 09/10/2022 at 09:54, No Decorum said:

Oh well done! If only SK had been on the ball earlier and provided alternative bars for the Duchesses. I fettled one up but it was surprisingly difficult to get just right. I’m a bit cack handed. As for the 78XXXs, has Hornby finally thrown out the tins of soapy paint? The new 9Fs seems to indicate improvement in that area.

Literally all I use for my closer coupling bars are a yogurt pot lid and belt hole punch! Cut a strip of lid (about 5mm wide), select hole punch size that most closely matches the tender and loco screws for the existing coupling bar) and make a bar with holes spaced as you desire. In my experience the Hornby 'display' distance is usually just a little too tight for operational purposes but using that as a pattern and adding 1-2mm on is usually enough to get a loco to run in both directions over my minimum 30 inch curves. Its really dead easy. 

[No Decorum]

2 hours ago, MikeParkin65 said:

Literally all I use for my closer coupling bars are a yogurt pot lid and belt hole punch! Cut a strip of lid (about 5mm wide), select hole punch size that most closely matches the tender and loco screws for the existing coupling bar) and make a bar with holes spaced as you desire. In my experience the Hornby 'display' distance is usually just a little too tight for operational purposes but using that as a pattern and adding 1-2mm on is usually enough to get a loco to run in both directions over my minimum 30 inch curves. Its really dead easy. 

That is exactly what I did! As I said, I’m a bit cack handed. 😀 I managed it in the end. 

[Francis deWeck]

On 06/10/2022 at 01:53, Woowooo437 said:

My 92167 is slowly circling the layout as I write this. Its smoother and quieter than it was a week ago. Pulling 14 Bachmann 20t tank cars,  a 7 plank and a 20t G Van. Did I have to have it? No. Am I enjoying it? Yes. Just wait until my zimo MS 440 gets here (SC, USA) . Reminds me of the Birkenhead 9Fs working through Nottingham Vic to Colwick in the early 60's. Whats the odds I get a Hornby Crosti when they produce it? 100%.   

 

I'd be up for a Crosti boilered model, if it was to the same spec as the current releases.

[Black 5 Bear]

4 hours ago, Francis deWeck said:

I'd be up for a Crosti boilered model, if it was to the same spec as the current releases.

Rebuilt version gets my vote....

[RedgateModels]

1 hour ago, Black 5 Bear said:

Rebuilt version gets my vote....

certainty covers more of the transition era from steam to diesel. I built one a while ago for an article in the April 2015 BRM, used a Bachmann chassis though 😂

 

Edited October 17, 2022 by RedgateModels

[JST]

I have just collected mine from my daughter’s in the UK. I won’t be able to run it until I get back to France next week but I have to admit that Hornby’s packaging has gone from awful to something that could withstand nuclear attack!

[Porcy Mane]

2 hours ago, JST said:

Hornby’s packaging has gone from awful to something that could withstand nuclear attack!

 

Planning for the future?   😬

[Mad McCann]

It's a very nice model, but I won't be binning my Bachmann model any time soon.

Might be a good time for second hand 9F and Black Five hunters though. 🙂

 

Davy.

[JST]

1 hour ago, Mad McCann said:

It's a very nice model, but I won't be binning my Bachmann model any time soon.

Might be a good time for second hand 9F and Black Five hunters though. 🙂

 

Davy.

I like my Bachmann Evening Star but TBH it is not the best runner I have. It still has stiff spots when slow running. I am hoping that my Hornby 9F doesn’t suffer from this. May have to re -number it though as my layout is  era 5 Western Region and my 9F was an Eastern resident.

Edited October 24, 2022 by JST

[G-BOAF]

1 hour ago, JST said:

I like my Bachmann Evening Star but TBH it is not the best runner I have. It still has stiff spots when slow running. I am hoping that my Hornby 9F doesn’t suffer from this. May have to re -number it though as my layout is  era 5 Western Region and my 9F was an Eastern resident.

I solved the stiff spot on a Bachmann 9F by removing, filing down and remounting the 'valve guides' on the rear of the cylinders (the Bachmann model, commendably, has working valve spindles) - the combination lever was hitting the moulding very slightly once every revolution, which was translating into a tight spot on the rotation.

[JST]

Got mine home, ran it in on DC and then put a temporary decoder in (waiting for a sound decoder) to give it a run. I must say it runs extremely well and I am very pleased with it. I did have one issue which caused me some worry and head scratching though. It occasionally gave out a clicking sound accompanied by a little "hop" at forward slow speed. Turned out to be the rear axle crank pin catching on the injector pipework. A careful bit of pipe "repositioning" sorted it. Certainly not enough to send it back to Hornby.

[stevegr]

On 17/10/2022 at 22:01, RedgateModels said:

certainty covers more of the transition era from steam to diesel. I built one a while ago for an article in the April 2015 BRM, used a Bachmann chassis though 😂

 

Actually a Costi is a bit harder they had smaller boilers and when rebuilt that's why they were 8F.

[HExpressD]

I think the issue with the motors was a batch issue not a spec issue, so even if it is the same motor, which Hornby have said it isn't (I know who I'd trust between Strains and the manufacturer). Again assuming a batch issue, saying the motor has the same faults because it looks the same would be like having a tin of beans give you salmonella in 2019, and not now eating another tin of beans because 'it looks the same'. 

 

In any case, I think saying it is, after a manufacturer has already says that it isn't (presumably they'd know) is a way to land yourself in some trouble!

[toby_tl10]

10 minutes ago, HExpressD said:

(I know who I'd trust between Strains and the manufacturer)

While I don't recommend you fully trust a youtuber, why would you trust the manufacturer on the contrary? If said manufacturer has earned trust from modellers for the past years, yeah, maybe, but a company that thought it could dodge copyright laws? And the same company that gave people mazak rot?

 

Trust needs to be earned.

[HExpressD]

28 minutes ago, toby_tl10 said:

While I don't recommend you fully trust a youtuber, why would you trust the manufacturer on the contrary? If said manufacturer has earned trust from modellers for the past years, yeah, maybe, but a company that thought it could dodge copyright laws? And the same company that gave people mazak rot?

 

Trust needs to be earned.

I think Mazak Rot might be a little unfair considering every manufacturer but the newest few have had models blighted by it. As for copyright stuff, it's not good but doesn't speak for the quality of the models!

[G-BOAF]

2 hours ago, thetrains said:

 

Not trying to defend Sam, (no fan particularly) but he did an update I just I've seen this morning, last week, where he stripped down the actual motor to compare to S15 etc. and put his own new motor in and now runs fine. If you go to @ 19.50-20.30 mins in, he says by saying Hornby's statement about the 9f motor being new is "untrue" based on his strip down. 

 

Really iffy statement by him I reckon.

 

 

The rational first step if faced with the faults Mr Sam has found is to exchange the model, or send to H for repair. Only if a second (or third) motor has the same problem can he be sure of his conclusions. Yes he might have had a poor motor, but a replacement might have solved the problem. He really irks me, and really seems to be stirring the pot to get clicks. I really don't understand why H or B has not taken legal action by now given some of his sensationalist claims about their recent products.

Edited November 21, 2022 by G-BOAF

[ColinB]

4 hours ago, G-BOAF said:

 

 

The rational first step if faced with the faults Mr Sam has found is to exchange the model, or send to H for repair. Only if a second (or third) motor has the same problem can he be sure of his conclusions. Yes he might have had a poor motor, but a replacement might have solved the problem. He really irks me, and really seems to be stirring the pot to get clicks. I really don't understand why H or B has not taken legal action by now given some of his sensationalist claims about their recent products.

When I first saw Sam's video on about 9F motor not having any torque I was a bit skeptical as I have the same model and for the moment it is working fine. My first reaction was a reputable manufacturer wouldn't fit a motor that they had had faults with previously, then I watched his second video. Looking at his evidence of both motors stripped down they definitely look the same. The only thing that might be different is the brush design which being so small is hard to see. It can't have more windings as that would show in the weight. I have had issues where the permanent magnets are not held in properly, so they may have improved that. Again difficult to see. From the photos they definitely look the same. The response he read out from Hornby was at best unhelpful to put it politely. A typical response by someone that doesn't have a clue. Actually it was a bit like the response I got from the Ford Dealer that serviced my car explaining to me how aircon works and getting it completely wrong, not realising that I used to design the stuff as a Ford Engineer. 

Manufacturers will tell you anything to make you go away, watch old versions of Watchdog or Rip Off Britain. Yes sometimes they over exaggerate but quite often you can see the spokesperson struggling. I hope for Hornby's sake they haven't used the same motor hoping that all the faults are fixed because at over £200 for said model, it could significantly tarnish your already damaged reputation. The big question is why go with that motor, the Railroad version uses a variation of the X4026, except with an extended shaft for the flywheel. These motors seem a lot more reliable so why change? 

[ColinB]

5 hours ago, G-BOAF said:

 

 

The rational first step if faced with the faults Mr Sam has found is to exchange the model, or send to H for repair. Only if a second (or third) motor has the same problem can he be sure of his conclusions. Yes he might have had a poor motor, but a replacement might have solved the problem. He really irks me, and really seems to be stirring the pot to get clicks. I really don't understand why H or B has not taken legal action by now given some of his sensationalist claims about their recent products.

Yes but you are missing the point, this is an over £200 loco you shouldn't have to send it back to get the motor changed. If it was £50 then yes you might expect it, if you want to charge top prices you have to provide a decent product. I think in the old days it was called quality assurance. As a manufacturer you should be incredibly concerned if your product contains duff motors, not try to fob them off with generic statements. As to the getting more clicks, I doubt it, the only people that watch his channel are people that are interested in trains, he is not a celebrity. H and B haven't taken legal action because a lot of the time he is right. A day ago he did a review on a Bachmann Crab, I have that model as many others that he reviewed and he was spot on with his analysis. He recently did a review on the new Fell, in that case I think he was over generous it was far worse than his review not noticing the axle boxes are a push fit and fall off anywhere around your layout, so it works both ways.

 

[Bluebell Model Railway]

My next-door Neighbour has one of Hornby's 9F's unfortunately I cannot afford one, plus I don't need one. However I was allowed to test check and look over it while he was on Holiday.
 It's a smooth-running model, I certainly didn't pickup on any issues with anything getting caught or any issues with Touque .. that is if Sam actually knows what Touque is... Sadly I have had to deal with a number of things he's said advising people badly, models coming to me needing a service as it has half a dog or cat inside it, because Sam shows it's ok to run it on carpet... well yea did you read the instructions.. 

Anyway we know some Hornby models do have motor issues, as they are third party motors, not produced by their own factory like they used to be sadly that does create issues in terms of the quality and reliability.... I am not saying that this is the case here, without knowing what motor, specs, size ect... and finding it on Ali express for £1.20.

If there is an issue, if you send the model back under warranty, and more do return, then it's something that needs looking in to and they will then be aware of the problem if there is one.

Sadly @ColinB speaking to customers they think because of the viewer numbers, and the subscriber count they think he's right... and most of the time he isn't and lacks the technical knowledge to make such statements....and he does do more harm than good, Hornby did drop him due to some of these issues he's causing. As I now refuse repairs if I hear his name mentioned... send it to the manufacturer.