Hornby 2021 - 9F new tooling

[K Hatton]

Fwiw: I have purchased an evening star as a birthday present for my dad (to replace his tender-drive Hornby) and have the following observations.

 

One of the brake blocks had come off in transit (was still in the box). Easy enough to refit - just something to check as it wasn't immediately obvious until the block fell on the table.

 

This aside my opinion is this is a really good model. Very finely detailed, crisp clean finish and easy dcc/sound fitting as a massive bonus.

 

The packaging is a massive improvement over the usual cardboard box (Hornby have used this style box before for the Royal Lancer a1 if memory serves me right).

 

Price wise I pre-ordered the model when it was £209 from Hornby themselves. Since then the cost of just about everything has increased so why people are surprised Hornby increased their prices baffles me. (If you think this is worse than the current rise in energy bills then your priorities are very different to most other people's!) I understand money is a big consideration for most people but I was always taught if you can't afford it, save up until you can and if you can afford it then do what you enjoy (can't take it with you!)

 

I'm sure my dad will be happy with it and hopefully get his enjoyment out of it and at the end of the day that is all that matters to me. I'm not here for an argument so please don't take this post as a reason to start one.

Edited September 25, 2022 by K Hatton

[Woowooo437]

I have 92167 on the way. A question I thought was going to get asked, and answered........Normally with 21pin circuit boards there are pads to solder speaker wires to. An earlier poster said these didn't appear to be present. Yes? No? Am I going to have to solder wires to teeny tiny pads on a decoder? 

 

Richard E. 

[curlypaws]

1 hour ago, Woowooo437 said:

Am I going to have to solder wires to teeny tiny pads on a decoder?

 

I'm afraid that you are. Assuming that your decoder has solder pads for the speaker. Otherwise it is even tinier pads next to the pins.

 

There are quite a few solder pads on the Hornby PCB but none of them are definitely labelled as being for a speaker.

[92220]

I bought one - preordered 18 months ago. Of course I did.  Probably no surprise to anyone, nor what version I bought.  But anyway.

 

It arrived.  Packaging did a far better job than previous versions at protecting the valuable contents from damage. 
 

In common with one earlier poster, one brake block had fallen off, but on first examination that is the only issue and it is easily rectified.

 

First impressions are that it is absolutely excellent overall.  It runs very smoothly, but as I’ve not run it in yet, I haven’t tested it for haulage capacity.  Is it, on balance, better than the Bachmann version that I spent several hours and a lot of care in improving?  I think so, yes.  Some of even the very much more obscure details I added are already on, or are just much better, on the Hornby version - step on the reverser, WR lamp irons and the ATC for example.  There has been some very careful research done on this - always assuming the other versions are different!
 

In my view, the Bachmann one wins on:

 

Driving wheel shape/profile - if killybegs uses the Bachmann wheel as the very best basis, better than Gibson, Ultrascale or anything, for the ultimate P4 9F then this is worth something.  
Front step under the smokebox - the Hornby one is full width of the frames and is only correct for post 63 I think

Etched smoke deflectors (and etched nameplates provided) 

Front pony (specifically the ease of removing the NEM pocket, which would disappear for either)

Pony wheel profile (not that either would be preferred to Gibson)

Colour etc of wheels, frames etc, although again if weathered you make your own choice

cylinder drain cocks - more accurate shape although not as crisp a moulding to be fair.  
 

Hornby one wins on 

 

Cab/footplate interface - whatever you do the Bachmann one has a tiny gap between the two components

Shade of green 

tender brake gear and frames

tender doors (not cab doors) 

overall detailing - ATC, specific WR lamp irons, cinder guards, cab and tender details, injector pipework, smokebox pipework, sliding cab ventilator, reverser step, 

Hidden gear tower 

tender pickups (I presume?  I didn’t check yet)

much finer handrail pillars

subtle details like the cladding panels and smokebox, firebox/boiler interface, safety valves

 

but then the Hornby one is close to 20 years newer.

 

I would say it is pretty much a dead heat in many areas because both are very good renditions of 92220.  Really characteristic details like the cab profile, front spectacles, cylinder shape, lubricator drive etc are dead giveaways when wrong - witness the straight sided DJH 9F cab - and look spot on for both versions.

 

Disclaimer: This is just a 5 minute look and first impression!

 

And the bottom line is both are rtr 4mm models.  Both are an excellent basis either for accepting them for what they are - very good out of the box with a few small shortcomings of varying degrees, and more importantly, both are an even more excellent basis for doing some modelling.  I plan to add to the Hornby one when I get round to it:

 

Etched deflectors 

Etched nameplates

water pipes from tender to injectors 

front vacuum pipe support (different to the Hornby one)

Exactoscale front coupling (9Fs had an extra link)

Front pony detailing 

Front pony wheels (Gibson)

 

plus obvious things like front steps, draincocks, crew, lamps coal and weathering 

So, no criticism from me at all.  Delighted with it.  
 

Iain 

 

 

[adb968008]

On 18/09/2022 at 16:24, APOLLO said:

Crewe Works 11 June 1967

 

 

 

Brit15

Nice white smokebox there, I wonder if it was Magnolia and how often they gave it a wipe.

 

:-)

 

[adb968008]

14 hours ago, 92220 said:

Hornby one wins on ….

 

Shade of green 

 

 

Wow, thats not something we hear very often on here…

[adb968008]

On 25/09/2022 at 10:13, TomScrut said:

 

Yes but bear in mind Bachmann also get stick for prices when comparing to Dapol and Accurascale. In fact Bachmann were no. 1 candidate getting this sort of critisism before Hornby jacked their prices up.

 

On 25/09/2022 at 10:18, Hilux5972 said:

Finally someone else’s realises that Hornby are not the first to increase prices! 

Dont forget Heljan…

 

new class 26 is now £229… you can still buy the last releases new for £109 (and thats an increase of the £50 days of 5 years ago)… the new class 104 is £489 rrp… 

The outliers on price are Accurascale, Dapol, KRModels, Oxford…the rest of the pack has rapidly increased.

 

All this is before we come to winter, fuel, interest rate highs and the pounds demise.

 

Tbh I suspect we’ll just stop seeing new toolings being made in the short term, this year has been quiet for new announcements, what we are seeing now is pre-covid plans being delivered… if a new tooling is c$160k, its a different story when its jumped from c£100k to c£160k…. Of course in the golden decade it was c$120k, and only c£60k.

 

 

 

Edited September 26, 2022 by adb968008

[JSpencer]

On 25/09/2022 at 10:01, Ian Hargrave said:

At the risk of repeating myself everyone’s track,stock and electrics are different. If it works for you then that’s fine.Sam’s “layout “ etc. is unique to Sam. I think we all know that….at least I hope we do.

 

Agreed, looking at his track it seems to kink round just before the gradient and maybe again at the top. Now I suspect the Hornby 9F - being finer detail and all that - has less side play than the Bachmann model (which already has less side play than the Railroad version).  If so, the flanges are probably biting into the track (extra friction) causing it to slow down.

This won't quite explain why it slows on the straight going up although maybe the pickups were pushed to the limits as well... or...or... 

Other videos have shown the model coping with huge loads, probably better than Bachmann which was already excellent here.

 

On 25/09/2022 at 04:18, jjb1970 said:

 

I think this is going to be increasingly the case. When Hornby went to China and Bachmann moved their game on the models were transformative. Mechanisms, levels of detail, finish and accuracy were a paradigm shift and so whether or not there were existing models of a prototype (with few exceptions, for example the old Mainline Mk.1 buffet was excellent) was almost irrelevant. In todays market all the big selling types have been done, and done well and in most cases when a new version comes out you don't really need to upgrade (I use the word need in the hobby context, nobody truly needs a model train, it is a matter of wanting). For example, the new Bachmann class 47 is superb, but the older model is still excellent and on a layout I suspect very few would notice a difference. Although the Heljan class 45 looks to have some nicer details the overall impression doesn't look any better than the older Bachmann model to me. An exception is the Accurascale Deltic which I do think is a massive improvement over the older Bachmann model, but I suspect that will be the exception rather than the norm going forward. Of course manufacturers will continue making new models and duplication will continue, but we're in a market now where making a new release stand out from an existing model of that prototype is increasingly difficult and so just keeping what we have or buying s/h or from clearance bins becomes increasingly attractive.

 

I agree. Switching from excellent to marginally better still... it is hard to justify in my case especially as so much new and not done before is on offer at the same time.Where an excellent model exists, I will probably only supplement it, and then if it is a class I am fond of.

[MikeParkin65]

1 hour ago, JSpencer said:

 

This won't quite explain why it slows on the straight going up although maybe the pickups were pushed to the limits as well...

Voltage drop? Appreciate Sam isn’t using DCC but a run of that length relying on track joiners would probably be better with the equivalent of a power bus?

[HExpressD]

56 minutes ago, MikeParkin65 said:

Voltage drop? Appreciate Sam isn’t using DCC but a run of that length relying on track joiners would probably be better with the equivalent of a power bus?

And, potentially, down to the fact his layout is a mix of nickel silver and older steel track as confirmed by close ups in various videos. Interestingly the curve at the bottom of his hill where the 9F and a lot of locos seem to slow down appears to be a bit of steel track. I wonder if this affects it? 

Edited September 26, 2022 by HExpressD
Spelling

[Johan DC]

I like Sam's reviews for the close-ups, and I think he has quite an audience too, judging by his viewing numbers. 

But he did say about the Bachmann 9F 'worst mechanism of the year?' in the title, so maybe that's more telling about Sam's Trains than about Bachmann?

[MikeParkin65]

1 minute ago, Johan DC said:

I like Sam's reviews for the close-ups, and I think he has quite an audience too, judging by his viewing numbers. 

But he did say about the Bachmann 9F 'worst mechanism of the year?' in the title, so maybe that's more telling about Sam's Trains than about Bachmann?

I've got time for Sams channel. I dont think of his programmes as 'reviews' as such not least because of the obvious lack of prototype knowledge and his tendency to hyperbole. But agree he films the models well, taking them apart gives us a useful insight and when he isnt 'going off on one' he has an engaging enthusiasm.

 

Also much respect his attempts at 3D print loco modelling which is more than I have done - he deserves in this context to be considered a proper modeller. 

[TomScrut]

3 hours ago, adb968008 said:

if a new tooling is c$160k, its a different story when its jumped from c£100k to c£160k…. Of course in the golden decade it was c$120k, and only c£60k.

 

That's something that people often forget. The exchange rate vs USD is terrible nowadays vs years gone by. That will have had as big an effect as anything.

[Ian Hargrave]

Currently running my new Hornby 9F and also revisiting Sam’s “review “. His judgment is harshly OTT. It bears no resemblance to the one currently hauling 24 Accurascale wagons smoothly,9 of then with coal loads,at position 3:5 on a dc controller.IMHO he’s thoughtlessly savaging a model and using very poor judgment.I have to ask how many unsuspecting souls who commit to his “channel” and hang on his every word like the gospel are gulled by this banality and won’t buy one because of it ?  Yes he’s a capable lad I know and frequently demonstrates his skill but this is a very good model…not perhaps as good as it could be….but it deserves better than this nonsense.

[Porcy Mane]

 

Well, I still like his taste in slippers.

[Ian Hargrave]

13 minutes ago, Porcy Mane said:

 

Well, I still like his taste in slippers.

For a good spanking  ? 😀

[Ian Hargrave]

29 minutes ago, Ricochet said:

I have to admit, had I seen his review before I purchased, I might have (wrongly) thought twice. Glad I pre-ordered, it's a great model and his electrics clearly need fixing. 

Well certainly something needs fixing. We can all speculate on what that might be.Conclusion jumping for starters..e.g. it’s the same duff motor that he replaced in the B12 . I suppose if I were in the position of Hornby marketing,I’d shrug it off by repeating that there’s no such thing as bad publicity. Who knows what effect in terms of lost sales he has. Hopefully minimal . I had to think very carefully before buying but as always I use my own judgement. It is a good model.

Edited September 26, 2022 by Ian Hargrave
spelling

[Porcy Mane]

26 minutes ago, Ian Hargrave said:

For a good spanking  ? 

 

 I couldn't possibly comment...

[Ian Hargrave]

Just now, Porcy Mane said:

 

 I couldn't possibly comment...

And we all know what the character who uttered those infamous words commi😵tted ….

[Porcy Mane]

27 minutes ago, Ian Hargrave said:

And we all know what the character who uttered those infamous words commi😵tted ….

 

I s'pose it depends to what generation you belong ...   and politics is banned on this forum.🧐

Edited September 26, 2022 by Porcy Mane

[Woowooo437]

Also currently also running a new 92167. I had a scary start when the motion kept jamming and I needed to run the loco backwards for a few circuits before it would run forward smoothly. However everything seems to be running smoothly now. Regarding speaker connexions on the circuit board. With the dummy plug removed there are 2 small pads marked S1 and S2 next to the speaker 'box' that Hornby gave us.  With no wires attached on either side of the board. Any suggestions as to how I can (safely) discover if these are speaker pads? 

[MidlandRed]

An interesting You Tube video running and weathering 92167. 
 

 

[Ian Hargrave]

A point made concerning the length of time taken for a Hornby model loco to properly run in is certainly the experience I have had with mine,though mine didn’t have the initial issues seen here.I also take on board his concerns over a seeming lack of torque…..made much of by Sam in a brutal way.Shortening the coupling bar seems a little drastic though and a risky business if it doesn’t work out on curved track. Earlier on this thread turning the bar around is suggested.I have looked carefully at it but it will require sharp eyesight and nimble fingers to achieve.As I have neither,I’ll leave well alone.This is one area where I feel the model doesn’t deliver what it should 

   I look forward to further videos from him later. It was straightforward and believable 

[RedgateModels]

7 hours ago, Woowooo437 said:

Also currently also running a new 92167. I had a scary start when the motion kept jamming and I needed to run the loco backwards for a few circuits before it would run forward smoothly. However everything seems to be running smoothly now. Regarding speaker connexions on the circuit board. With the dummy plug removed there are 2 small pads marked S1 and S2 next to the speaker 'box' that Hornby gave us.  With no wires attached on either side of the board. Any suggestions as to how I can (safely) discover if these are speaker pads? 

 

if you have a multimeter the speaker pins on the MTC connector are the two next to the missing pin, so top 2 pins on the right row looking at your pic 🙂

[adb968008]

Well someone at Hornby has clearly been listening to customer feedback….

 

 

The spaceship comes in a spacious box… competes the Accurascale Deltic for size..

 

 

The shade of green is probably the best render ive ever seen on a Hornby model…

 

 

i’m also a big fan of the attention paid to the wheels (apart of the front pony) and having a solid wheel rim makes quite a bit of difference to the older Hornby models.

 

the proportions look right, the wheels are the area I always look too as with newer models there is a tendency to getting the top right but cutting corners on the bottom… but look at the valve gear..

 

 

This 9f has a lovely feel and shape to it, the boiler proportions look better, it is all around stronger / crisper than its Bachmann rival.(just hiding in the top corner is that Rubix cube that found fame in a Geoff Marshall video last week)

 

The tender too feels a stronger crisper proportion than its Britannia rival, a lot more separetly detailed pieces like tender well steps, tank lid.

 

and compare the motion with the real thing..

Weighs in at 393g, without tender, 474g with.

I got this to start turning the wheels at a very credible 0.05a and tops out with a good turn of speed at 0.19amp… so engineered for slow speed control and a reasonable top speed.

 

All credit to Hornby, this is at the standard, i’d give it 9 out of 10… they still need to sort that pony wheel but theyve done a great model here…indeed in steam outline i’d say its their best effort todate, just pipping the Original MN, on the green shade being better….

 

let this be the benchmark for consistency going forwards, but i’m extremely impressed… for all the critiscms Hornby has had over quality this one definitely rides above it.

 

Edited September 27, 2022 by adb968008