1938 Tube Stock

[Roy Langridge]

21 hours ago, melmerby said:

I don't think that makes any difference.

You can always take the decoders out and sell them on.

 

May make a huge difference to the lighting which may have only been installed with DCC operation in mind.

Roy

[adb968008]

LT Museum limited edition just launched, Piccadilly line / Heathrow destination.

This is 1959 stock, so maybe its own thread however…

 

First rtr 1959 model in the aluminium/silver livery, £399 which doesnt seem bad considering the prices of the red stock now.

 

Quote

UG 1959 Stock 4 Car Model Set Pre-Order

A brand new 1:76 (OO) 4-Car Motorised Underground Train has been produced by Bachmann EFE Rail exclusively for London Transport Museum.

The 4-Car set is modelled on a late 1970s Piccadilly line unit, Train No 254, working to Heathrow.

This exclusive set is available to pre-order online now and will be on sale online in mid-January 2024.

The set comprises of:

• Car A: Driving Motor Car No 1212
• Car B: Trailer Car No 2212D (‘D’ for de-icer car)
• Car C: Non-Driving Motor Car No 9213
• Car D: Driving Motor Car No 1213

https://www.ltmuseumshop.co.uk/models/brand/Bachmann/ug-1959-stock-4-car-model-set

 

 

Edited November 1, 2023 by adb968008

[Jeremy Cumberland]

A motorised 1959 Tube Stock. Have I missed something? This is new, isn't it? Shouldn't this have its own thread in a proper announcement. I am sure it will be of great interest to London Underground modellers.

 

Isn't Heathrow anachronistic, though? I thought the Piccadilly line was 100% 1973 Tube Stock by the time the Heathrow extension had opened.

[adb968008]

9 minutes ago, Jeremy Cumberland said:

 

Isn't Heathrow anachronistic, though? I thought the Piccadilly line was 100% 1973 Tube Stock by the time the Heathrow extension had opened.

London transport seems to disagree..

Quote

The Piccadilly line extension to London Heathrow Airport was opened in December 1977. Heathrow was the first international airport to be linked to an underground transit system, and new ‘1973 tube stock’ was designed specifically for the airport link. The internationally recognised aircraft silhouette symbol was displayed on the front of Piccadilly line trains serving the airport. Until all the '1973 tube stock' had been received, '1959 tube stock' continued to operate on the Piccadilly line to and from Cockfosters, Uxbridge and the new terminus Heathrow Central. Our model represents a '1959 tube stock' train on one of those workings. When delivery of '1973 tube stock' were complete the '1959 tube stock' was transferred to the Northern and Bakerloo lines for continued service until withdrawal in late 1999.

albeit wiki is ambigious, saying the 1973 stock was delivered by 1977, but also says the 1959 stock didnt fully transfer away until 1979.

Edited November 1, 2023 by adb968008

[letterspider]

Well, I am just going to run my 1938 Tube Stock to Heathrow instead! (not my image)

 

 

[letterspider]

1 hour ago, adb968008 said:

London transport seems to disagree..

albeit wiki is ambigious, saying the 1973 stock was delivered by 1977, but also says the 1959 stock didnt fully transfer away until 1979.

 

I did see 1959 stock on the Heathrow branch, usually destined for Northfields depot. I don't see any reason why they couldn't go all the way to Heathrow but this was not in any way a regular service....however....

the fact that Heathrow is a 'destination' makes me wonder if EFE / Bachmann will produce the 1973 stock down the line or whether they may go for the 2025 stock - (which will also be cascading onto other lines as well)

https://www.businesstraveller.com/business-travel/2023/08/01/tfl-unveils-details-of-new-piccadilly-line-trains/

 

I guess it depends on how expensive these will be?

Edited November 1, 2023 by letterspider

[Michael Hodgson]

1 hour ago, letterspider said:

Well, I am just going to run my 1938 Tube Stock to Heathrow instead! (not my image)

 

 

Pity they're not doing it in hat livery .. or better still this one

[4railsman]

anyone know when and where was this photo taken? Was this the only tube carriage on site and if so are there any other photos

[Jeremy Cumberland]

A 7-car set (1044 and 1031) was painted into this livery in 1990. Several individual cars survive, and Mangapps has (or had) Trailer 2044 and DM 1030. Here's a photo of 1030:

[Jeff Smith]

As far as I know this was a similar livery that Standard Stock used but with the doors painted the same red as the body (tube red).  Except for some of the prototypes, 1938 stock was all over tube red.

[Fair Oak Junction]

12 minutes ago, Jeff Smith said:

As far as I know this was a similar livery that Standard Stock used but with the doors painted the same red as the body (tube red).  Except for some of the prototypes, 1938 stock was all over tube red.

 

You are correct.

[PhilJ W]

1 hour ago, Obsidian Quarry said:

 

You are correct.

That photograph is retouched, possibly from a black and white original. The give away is the oil tail lamp, the casing should be white. The livery carried by the 1959 stock is authentic up until the early thirties when the darker red doors and black lining were dropped following the formation of the LPTB in 1933. During the war the cream window surrounds on a lot of the stock was repainted red to make them less conspicuous from the air as was the silver roofs painted dark grey or red oxide.

[Jeremy Cumberland]

1 hour ago, PhilJ W said:

That photograph is retouched, possibly from a black and white original. The give away is the oil tail lamp, the casing should be white. The livery carried by the 1959 stock is authentic up until the early thirties when the darker red doors and black lining were dropped following the formation of the LPTB in 1933. During the war the cream window surrounds on a lot of the stock was repainted red to make them less conspicuous from the air as was the silver roofs painted dark grey or red oxide.

According to the LT Museum, it is an original colour photograph: https://www.ltmuseum.co.uk/collections/collections-online/photographs/item/2002-18939

 

I admit to not having seen any other red-painted tail lamp on the underground, but this (probably pre-war) photograph by Mike Morant appears to show a red body, although the lens surround is white.

 

For those who don't know, and more relevant to this thread, I don't think oil tail lamps were ever used on 1938 or 1959 Tube Stock (there are electric tail lamps below the cab front), but oil lamps were used on stabled sets until the early 1970s. When oil lamps were phased out on the Underground, low power red stabling lights were added to trains that did not have them. Route headcodes had been discontinued by then, so the bottom right position on 1938 and 1956 stock was re-purposed as a red stabling lamp, but 1959 stock didn't have a spare position to use. Instead, an extra light was added to the right of the marker lights. On the otherwise very similar 1962 tube stock, the stabling light was added to the left of the marker lights, and this became by far the easiest way of distinguishing between the two types. In more recent years, stabling lights have been been turned on as a third tail light, but I don't think that this applied to 1938 or 1959 stock when they were still in service.

Edited November 2, 2023 by Jeremy Cumberland

[Coppercap]

On 01/11/2023 at 11:02, letterspider said:

 

I did see 1959 stock on the Heathrow branch, usually destined for Northfields depot. I don't see any reason why they couldn't go all the way to Heathrow but this was not in any way a regular service....however....

the fact that Heathrow is a 'destination' makes me wonder if EFE / Bachmann will produce the 1973 stock down the line or whether they may go for the 2025 stock - (which will also be cascading onto other lines as well)

https://www.businesstraveller.com/business-travel/2023/08/01/tfl-unveils-details-of-new-piccadilly-line-trains/

 

I guess it depends on how expensive these will be?

I well remember 1959 stock on Heathrow services - my station was Hounslow West. I used to go on training courses up in town in the late 1970s, and when a 1959 stock train clattered into Hounslow West in the morning or King's Cross St Pancras in the evening, I knew I'd enjoy my journey in the knowledge that it could well be my last on that stock on the Piccadilly, despite them getting rather 'tired' inside. They were by then few and far between on the Piccadilly, but there were always several sat in Northfields depot. I liked the 1973 stock - quieter, comfortable and obviously still very clean and new, but the 1959 was entertaining at speed between Acton Town and Hammersmith, along with all the rattles and bangs etc (but the 1938 stock was even livelier!). Then one day, they were gone...

Edited November 12, 2023 by Coppercap

[Porkscratching]

When I lived at the Elephant and Castle, this was early-mid 80s, I'd often jump on the bakerloo line from there and it was pretty much always 1938 stock, painted red all over (with the vivid green interior) 

[lazythread]

I commuted from Hounslow West to Barons Court, from August 1976 until late 1980 and the '59's were there in force to Heathrow for a while. LURS will know the date of the last '59 on the Piccadilly, I'm away from my books otherwise I'd look it up. It may well have been the special 3-car 1962 stock Aldwych unit - 1750-2750-1751 - as I think Aldwych was the last to get 1973 stock.

 

They put a 1973 stock train into service specially to open Heathrow and then I believe it went straight back into Northfields.

 

Piccadilly 1938 tube stock made it to Hatton Cross - just - they didn't have destination plates made up and displayed HOUNSLOW on the front.

 

 

 

 

[Gwiwer]

3 hours ago, lazythread said:

They put a 1973 stock train into service specially to open Heathrow and then I believe it went straight back into Northfields.

I was on the first public train from Heathrow Central as it then was which was 1973 stock and bound for Cockfosters.  Upon arrival at Hatton Cross I swapped smartly to  the first westbound public train to Heathrow Central which was also 1973 stock and which, according to those aboard, had worked through from somewhere north of the central area.  That should not have been possible but the westbound was a few minutes late largely because of the number of enthusiasts aboard.  

 

So there were at least two 1973 stock trains in use that day.  I don't recall seeing anything else running beyond Hatton Cross but do remember that 1959 stock reached there once the first leg of the extension from hounslow West opened.  

 

HMQ, who opened the extension, might have had a special train just ahead of the first public trip which may have been the one that went back to Northfields.  

[lazythread]

On 13/11/2023 at 21:27, Gwiwer said:

I was on the first public train from Heathrow Central as it then was which was 1973 stock and bound for Cockfosters.  Upon arrival at Hatton Cross I swapped smartly to  the first westbound public train to Heathrow Central which was also 1973 stock and which, according to those aboard, had worked through from somewhere north of the central area.  That should not have been possible but the westbound was a few minutes late largely because of the number of enthusiasts aboard.  

 

So there were at least two 1973 stock trains in use that day.  I don't recall seeing anything else running beyond Hatton Cross but do remember that 1959 stock reached there once the first leg of the extension from hounslow West opened.  

 

HMQ, who opened the extension, might have had a special train just ahead of the first public trip which may have been the one that went back to Northfields.  

 

I forgot that LURS have published all the back issues of Undergroung News on their website - if you go to the February 1978 edition it gives full details including the individual car numbers of the trains.  The Queen did have her own train, including unit 244.

 

It was the Hatton Cross inauguration that used a 1973 stock specially for the opening journey as they were not yet in general service.

[Jon Harbour]

On 14/11/2023 at 08:27, Gwiwer said:

I was on the first public train from Heathrow Central as it then was which was 1973 stock and bound for Cockfosters.  Upon arrival at Hatton Cross I swapped smartly to  the first westbound public train to Heathrow Central which was also 1973 stock and which, according to those aboard, had worked through from somewhere north of the central area.  That should not have been possible but the westbound was a few minutes late largely because of the number of enthusiasts aboard.  

 

So there were at least two 1973 stock trains in use that day.  I don't recall seeing anything else running beyond Hatton Cross but do remember that 1959 stock reached there once the first leg of the extension from hounslow West opened.  

 

HMQ, who opened the extension, might have had a special train just ahead of the first public trip which may have been the one that went back to Northfields.  

 

I think I was also on the first public train to Heathrow Central. It was packed!

[stewartingram]

There used to be a lovely photo of HMQ in the cab of the opening special. It was hanging on the wall in the Supervisors Office at T123, might still be there.

[aureol40012]

My 1959 stock Heathrow set was posted to me today by the London Transport Museum shop. Notification was in my junk folder…….

[Dublodad]

Similar email, but in my inbox

[adb968008]

Me too !

Me too !

 

😀

[tetsudofan]

Got an email from LTMS yesterday saying that my order is on it's way and will be with me soon but there was no information on how it will get to me.

 

Today I got an email from Feefo on behalf of LTM asking me if I would recommend this item. Advised them I can't do that when I have not received the item......

 

Keith

[aureol40012]

Mine came by Royal Mail 1st class today.