Hornby 2022 - Diesel/Electric Range

[Torbay Express]

6 minutes ago, Class 158 productions said:

The same manufacturer who has put the Class 50 all over the new MK2 B blurb as well… 

I have a few things in order with Hornby this year, castle power-cars and MK3s and an GWR 802. As others have commented on, there seems to be a real lack of passion from the D&E team, even in the heavily edited show this shone through. Hornby are in a lot of danger of losing and have already lost considerable sales from the D&E market, I know we aren’t as large as the steam market, but rakes of wagons and modern locos do add up especially if they were once Hornby models now offered by other brands. 
So what can Hornby do?
More engagement online, they are actually one of the leaders in this aspect except for this forum. Ironically, most of the issues in the past 5 years they have experienced were pointed out on here, livery, tooling problems etc.

Excited for the Retooled power-cars, think we currently have 16 pairs on the layout. Although if someone else did a new HST, my order would be cancelled. Which has happened with 56s,CDAs, 31s recently for me. 
Hope the quality of the models improves and the new 21 pin system pleases those on DCC, if not, Hornby are in real danger of being superseded, if not already on the D&E market. 

Thanks all, interested to hear others thoughts. 

In all fairness they are doing a Anglia unit for modern modellers.  Wonder when a Coke livery version will appear?

 

Quite happy to spend my money with anyone other than Hornby.....

[Class 158 productions]

22 minutes ago, Torbay Express said:

 

Quite happy to spend my money with anyone other than Hornby.....

From what I’ve seen, on many platforms this is not an uncommon remark. I know we often are in an ‘echo chamber’ on these forums etc. But when Sams trains is also calling Hornby overpriced and detail and realism oriented modellers are as well, it’s not good. Aside from the actual model quality dropping. The recent treatment of shops and smaller brands just puts me off even more, as well as the subpar products. Things like delays and price rises are a pain, but often out of the manufacturers control. But it is telling no one else has risen prices like Hornby over the past couple of months. 10% up from 2020, 10% for 2021, 10% for 2022 and some midway 10% in 2021? I think

[GordonC]

2 hours ago, XChris said:

It does indeed leave those three classes. Now the 50 tooling is 20 years old nearly? *not sure on actual age but 2002 sounds about right to me* now in 20 years we haven’t seen all the colour schemes and we haven’t seen all variations covered. If that isn’t leaving the door open for a manufacturer who already has tooled up the bogies I don’t know what is?

 

Now I do like Class 50s and live less than a mile from their birthplace, but I'm struggling to think of too many colour schemes or variations that haven't been covered yet - obvious ommisions would be Refurbished in BR Blue, 1990s D400 BR Blue, 50135 Loadhaul, 50017 VSOE, 50008 Rail Adventure. Are there all that many more?

[newbryford]

2 minutes ago, GordonC said:

 

Now I do like Class 50s and live less than a mile from their birthplace, but I'm struggling to think of too many colour schemes or variations that haven't been covered yet - obvious ommisions would be Refurbished in BR Blue, 1990s D400 BR Blue, 50135 Loadhaul, 50017 VSOE, 50008 Rail Adventure. Are there all that many more?

 

D444 in two-tone green?

 

50007/049 in the correct shade of GBRf blue.......................................

🙃

[XChris]

2 hours ago, Class 158 productions said:

The same manufacturer who has put the Class 50 all over the new MK2 B blurb as well… 

I have a few things in order with Hornby this year, castle power-cars and MK3s and an GWR 802. As others have commented on, there seems to be a real lack of passion from the D&E team, even in the heavily edited show this shone through. Hornby are in a lot of danger of losing and have already lost considerable sales from the D&E market, I know we aren’t as large as the steam market, but rakes of wagons and modern locos do add up especially if they were once Hornby models now offered by other brands. 
So what can Hornby do?
More engagement online, they are actually one of the leaders in this aspect except for this forum. Ironically, most of the issues in the past 5 years they have experienced were pointed out on here, livery, tooling problems etc.

Excited for the Retooled power-cars, think we currently have 16 pairs on the layout. Although if someone else did a new HST, my order would be cancelled. Which has happened with 56s,CDAs, 31s recently for me. 
Hope the quality of the models improves and the new 21 pin system pleases those on DCC, if not, Hornby are in real danger of being superseded, if not already on the D&E market. 

Thanks all, interested to hear others thoughts. 

 

Yes that would also be true! But it's a bit late now for easter eggs...

 

 

As do I, but mainly for the same reason. Because no one else is making that model, so I have to make do with what is available and hope that the new tooling and features will be in an improvement and not a massive failure.

 

I was talking to a friend and both of us basically agreed what you have said in term of there designers and D&E people, so I said they should just employ some really good rivet counter (D&E version) who has no social skills to proof the designs so they will be right 🤣

 

2 hours ago, GordonC said:

 

Now I do like Class 50s and live less than a mile from their birthplace, but I'm struggling to think of too many colour schemes or variations that haven't been covered yet - obvious ommisions would be Refurbished in BR Blue, 1990s D400 BR Blue, 50135 Loadhaul, 50017 VSOE, 50008 Rail Adventure. Are there all that many more?

 

 

The fact is in a couple of hours we can think of a few liveries that in 20 years Hornby haven't bothered to do, it's not like the tooling isn't there it's just the effort...

 

Or as @newbryford has mentioned done the correct shade of blue...

[Pete the Elaner]

2 hours ago, Class 158 productions said:

From what I’ve seen, on many platforms this is not an uncommon remark. I know we often are in an ‘echo chamber’ on these forums etc. But when Sams trains is also calling Hornby overpriced and detail and realism oriented modellers are as well, it’s not good. Aside from the actual model quality dropping. The recent treatment of shops and smaller brands just puts me off even more, as well as the subpar products. Things like delays and price rises are a pain, but often out of the manufacturers control. But it is telling no one else has risen prices like Hornby over the past couple of months. 10% up from 2020, 10% for 2021, 10% for 2022 and some midway 10% in 2021? I think

 

Some shops have been treated badly. Others have been treated well, depending on how they have been judged by Hornby's tiering system.

A friend of mine works in a model shop & many customers don't see further than Hornby for model railways, even when told about alternative brands called Bachmann or Peco, whose models are often better.

[TomScrut]

8 minutes ago, XChris said:

Because no one else is making that model, so I have to make do with what is available and hope that the new tooling and features will be in an improvement and not a massive failure.

 

Exactly, ultimately I have a list of stock I want (or need 🤣) and some of that is only made by them. Given I am present day ECML 800, 802 and 803 are pretty much must haves. Likewise I might get the FS 91 set nearer the time if funds allow.

 

In this regard it will be interesting to see what else will come from the Hitachi tooling. HT 802 I can see being done, but I don't know if the Avanti ones will require retooling or not. MML ones would need a retool as they are different noses and car lengths.

[XChris]

3 minutes ago, TomScrut said:

 

In this regard it will be interesting to see what else will come from the Hitachi tooling. HT 802 I can see being done, but I don't know if the Avanti ones will require retooling or not. MML ones would need a retool as they are different noses and car lengths.

 

 

That's what you think! The Hornby D&E team have another idea!🤣🙃

[TomScrut]

4 minutes ago, Pete the Elaner said:

A friend of mine works in a model shop & many customers don't see further than Hornby for model railways, even when told about alternative brands called Bachmann or Peco, whose models are often better.

 

Exactly, and this is something that many people on here seem completely ignorant of. Having said that I wonder how many people who spend a lot of money only buy Hornby. I expect most of their reputational monopoly come from present buyers or first timers, both of which probably don't spend as much as we do.

[frobisher]

16 hours ago, CB Rail said:

The class 43 has recently had a modest upgrade & as an aside with the Oxford Mk3 coaches now under Hornby ownership, these could improve this offering

 

You missed the announcement of the retooled HST MKIII's I take it (not based on the Oxford efforts)?

[GordonC]

7 minutes ago, frobisher said:

 

You missed the announcement of the retooled HST MKIII's I take it (not based on the Oxford efforts)?

 

We've yet to see some kinds of results of what the 'retooling' involves though. Based on how much has been 'improved' in the 'retooling' of the HST power cars, I wouldn't count any chickens.

 

.... the only thing thats guaranteed is that the prices will go up!

Edited April 21, 2022 by GordonC

[scouse889]

6 hours ago, Torbay Express said:

In all fairness they are doing a Anglia unit for modern modellers.  Wonder when a Coke livery version will appear?

 

You forgot to mention a Beatles one!

[scouse889]

On 13/04/2022 at 09:06, 4630 said:

If any livery samples are published which show destinations significantly off the usual booked Liverpool Lime Street-Newcastle route then I will be distinctly unhappy. 

 

There's a worrying window of opportunity for "Liverpool Street-Newcastle" to appear from that!

[GordonC]

1 hour ago, scouse889 said:

 

There's a worrying window of opportunity for "Liverpool Street-Newcastle" to appear from that!

 

or Newcastle-Under-Lyme?

[stationroad]

regarding the 50, and at the risk of wishlisting - 90s style 008, 015 and 149 go for a lot on ebay when they come up.

 

Another run of those wouldn’t go amiss, especially given the prevalence of other 80s/90s models that seem to sell well. 

[frobisher]

7 hours ago, GordonC said:

 

We've yet to see some kinds of results of what the 'retooling' involves though. Based on how much has been 'improved' in the 'retooling' of the HST power cars, I wouldn't count any chickens.

 

.... the only thing thats guaranteed is that the prices will go up!

 

Given the MKIII Sliding Door stock was tooled up from scratch, I expect these will be based on those after it was found there was no sensible way to use the Oxford tooling in conjunction with those (as disclosed by a certain ex Hornby employee who might work for another manufacturer these days...).

[TomScrut]

1 hour ago, frobisher said:

 

Given the MKIII Sliding Door stock was tooled up from scratch, I expect these will be based on those after it was found there was no sensible way to use the Oxford tooling in conjunction with those (as disclosed by a certain ex Hornby employee who might work for another manufacturer these days...).

 

Aren't the Oxford ones the wrong length anyway?

[adb968008]

9 hours ago, TomScrut said:

 

Aren't the Oxford ones the wrong length anyway?

50 years since their introduction, in 1972 and 45 since the first tooling, and we still don't have an accurate mk3… though Jouef was pretty good, the sliding doors are ok too imo, not much wromg with Oxfords mk3s but..

 

I think the intercity/scotrail grey was a bigger issue.

Edited April 22, 2022 by adb968008

[spamcan61]

8 hours ago, TomScrut said:

 

Aren't the Oxford ones the wrong length anyway?

No, at least I can find no review that states that.

 

Edit: Unless you're referring to the 1:76 scaling of the Oxford model versus theoretical 1:76.2 required, I'd hardly call a ~0.3% dimensional difference an 'error'.

Edited April 22, 2022 by spamcan61

[TomScrut]

4 hours ago, spamcan61 said:

No, at least I can find no review that states that.

 

Edit: Unless you're referring to the 1:76 scaling of the Oxford model versus theoretical 1:76.2 required, I'd hardly call a ~0.3% dimensional difference an 'error'.

 

Yes that's what I am talking about.

 

My point was in reply to a comment about the idea of a combination of Oxford and Hornby tooling being used together to upgrade Hornby's mk3, logically if the length is incorrect, even by a small amount it would mean they are incompatible.

 

And yes it is still an error, even if a minor one!

[rob D2]

I think Hornby would rather employ top designers with maybe a minor interest in trains….than rubbish designers who spend all day at stations.

 

What they must have is someone to take ownership of the models during the process to check details like livery and destination boards….then you need someone or several people who know about the modelled period. Even if they are freelance and work from home and you can send them the images of the models to pour over .

[woodenhead]

49 minutes ago, rob D2 said:

I think Hornby would rather employ top designers with maybe a minor interest in trains….than rubbish designers who spend all day at stations.

 

What they must have is someone to take ownership of the models during the process to check details like livery and destination boards….then you need someone or several people who know about the modelled period. Even if they are freelance and work from home and you can send them the images of the models to pour over .

They do do the latter when it comes to steam models particularly - Graham Muspratt and Tony Wright have been involved with models in the past from that respect.

 

It probably depends who the model is aimed at in terms of effort put in, clearly anything LNER Pacific or Southern Railway, they do a lot of research on as those models tend to look splendid even if bits fall off or you've a banana shaped chassis which are production issues not design / research.   Maybe they simply don't put the effort in when it comes to some D/E models

[TomScrut]

1 hour ago, rob D2 said:

I think Hornby would rather employ top designers with maybe a minor interest in trains….than rubbish designers who spend all day at stations.

 

If they let designers spend all day at stations then that's part of where they are going wrong!

 

I would also question the draw of the job to a lot of engineers. The unique thing about this is that it is copying something and then engineering it into a toy/model, and that a lot of the actual engineering/creative work (i.e. what engineers like doing) is not in the detail of the model, that is just measuring and modelling which is boring in my experience. The interesting challenges will come once there is an "ideal world" model in place, and by that point most of the detail or shape mistakes people complain about will already have been made.

 

I love model trains but I'd not want to design them for a living vs what I do now. In my job I can pretty much design stuff from a blank sheet of paper rather than having something it has to look like.

[spamcan61]

1 hour ago, TomScrut said:

And yes it is still an error, even if a minor one!

I'd venture to suggest that pretty much every model produced has an 'error' of that magnitude somewhere. (I'll start with Bachmann wagon wheel diameter as mentioned yesterday).  The colour being way off was a much more significant issue IMHO, but that didn't stop them selling out at the warehouse it seems.

 

It's just, to me at least, statements like "it's the wrong length" get taken out of context and people might not buy the model in question as it's "the wrong length" when in this case the error is too small to notice with the human eye close up, nevermind at 'normal viewing distances'.

I don't recall any mention of the length discrepancy until Hornby tried to create the Frankenstein monster mix of Hornby and Oxford parts.

Edited April 22, 2022 by spamcan61

[GordonC]

20 minutes ago, woodenhead said:

They do do the latter when it comes to steam models particularly - Graham Muspratt and Tony Wright have been involved with models in the past from that respect.

 

It probably depends who the model is aimed at in terms of effort put in, clearly anything LNER Pacific or Southern Railway, they do a lot of research on as those models tend to look splendid even if bits fall off or you've a banana shaped chassis which are production issues not design / research.   Maybe they simply don't put the effort in when it comes to some D/E models

 

Thats the bit I just dont get, because when you look at the actual tooling and details they must make an effort at that stage ... is there a finite amount of effort and it all goes on tooling and it just runs out when it comes to decoration? I mean how could anyone be deciding what destinations to use for an LNER Azuma and come up with Carlisle and Watford Junction??? We're not even talking about exact abbreviation format of what displays on a limited number of characters display and whether they show 'London Kings Cross', 'London KX' or 'Kings Cross', its not even close and it presumably passed by more than one set of eyes without it being queried and corrected.