Big Bertha

[No Decorum]

Flangeless centre driver is true to prototype – well, I live and learn. Inspite of all the howling, I reflect on the excellent running of GT3 and find myself cautiously optimistic about Big Bertha. For a start, there is only the headlight, so the lighting set up which was such a mess on GT3 and the Fell shouldn’t be a problem. I hope the rods won’t be painted brass but a more realistic metal.

[Fair Oak Junction]

Bertha didn't have a flangeless centre wheel, at least not according to the photos I've seen of her.

[Buhar]

11 minutes ago, Fair Oak Junction said:

Bertha didn't have a flangeless centre wheel, at least not according to the photos I've seen of her.

That's correct, including the MR/LMS period.  However to negotiate curves on many model railways I think flangeless may be a necessary compromise on the model.  Also, given that most 8 and 10 coupled locos (and a few 6) had flangeless drivers it won't look odd to the casual observer.

 

Alan

[Fair Oak Junction]

12 minutes ago, Buhar said:

That's correct, including the MR/LMS period.  However to negotiate curves on many model railways I think flangeless may be a necessary compromise on the model.  Also, given that most 8 and 10 coupled locos (and a few 6) had flangeless drivers it won't look odd to the casual observer.

 

Alan

 

Yup. I fully understand why they've done it, and honestly I'm not fussed either way personally, but it definitely isn't prototypical and that will obviously annoy some people.

[No Decorum]

Duh! Learning, unlearning and re-learning! Would it be all that difficult to include a flanged set for neurotic types? (I have a thing about flangeless wheels, dating back as I do to days when many six-coupled steamers had flangeless centre drivers.)

[Fair Oak Junction]

1 minute ago, No Decorum said:

Duh! Learning, unlearning and re-learning! Would it be all that difficult to include a flanged set for neurotic types? (I have a thing about flangeless wheels, dating back as I do to days when many six-coupled steamers had flangeless centre drivers.)

 

I think that suggestion was made much earlier in the thread when the flangeless wheel was first mentioned (feels like ages ago now).
Time will tell if KR think that is a step worth taking, but I think it would be a popular move if they did do it. Nice to have the choice 👍
Depends on the economics I guess.

[Zunnan]

KR just seem insistent on rewriting reality and feeding duff info to poor old JK.

 

All five drive axles were flanged, except when an axle was dropped in works and she was moved around on the remaining axles. Fully flanged 0-10-0 have been done successfully and some of those models are quoted 415mm radius but will negotiate 1st radius, but the slightly longer wheelbase of a 00 model likely pushes the boundaries so I can sort of see why they've gone down that path.

Edited November 25, 2023 by Zunnan

[adb968008]

Ive watched this model this afternoon slowly trundling on a rolling road, just doing its thing, for hours not a wobble, its a real steady runner.

 

it has a working headlight with flickr, removable smokeboxdoor reveals where a smoke unit is planned, and a nice orange firebox glow.

 

 

Edited November 25, 2023 by adb968008

[Fair Oak Junction]

Marvellous. Everything shown so far certainly shows running quality in a good light 👌

They just need to get all the details and liveries right, and we may be on to a winner.....I've jinxed it haven't I 😄

[Fair Oak Junction]

I don't suppose anyone asked KR to confirm if the LMS/BR version will have the reverser lever?

If not, could someone ask tomorrow please? 😄

[E100]

2 hours ago, Fair Oak Junction said:

I don't suppose anyone asked KR to confirm if the LMS/BR version will have the reverser lever?

If not, could someone ask tomorrow please? 😄

 

They confirmed it would without prompting.

[Fair Oak Junction]

10 minutes ago, E100 said:

 

They confirmed it would without prompting.

 

Brilliant, thanks for the info 👌

[MidlandRed]

Big Bertha was on the rolling road when I looked at the stand. It looked to be running very smoothly at low speed - the motion looked very impressive. 

 

[Ian Hargrave]

Thanks Jenny for your YouTube video of it just released.

[Compound2632]

2 hours ago, Ian Hargrave said:

Thanks Jenny for your YouTube video of it just released.

 

It's all very well seeing it pulling, @Jenny Emily, but I want to see it pushing!

 

And a reminder that that headlight is supposed to strike fear into the heart of any little 10-ton brake van:

 

 

[Embedded link to DY11753 at Derby Registers pages of MRS website.]

Edited November 26, 2023 by Compound2632

[Zunnan]

2 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

 

It's all very well seeing it pulling, @Jenny Emily, but I want to see it pushing!

 

And a reminder that that headlight is supposed to strike fear into the heart of any little 10-ton brake van:

 

 

[Embedded link to DY11753 at Derby Registers pages of MRS website.]

 

Are you sure thats not the oil lamps on Turbomotive? 🤣

[Phil Parker]

A couple of shots from Warley.

 

[Compound2632]

Hum. I've either not seen or not paid attention to the rear of the tender before. S. Summerson, Midland Railway Locomotives Vol. 4 (Irwell Press, 2005) states that water pick up gear was not fitted. (There were never any water troughs on the Lickey Incline, can't think why not.)

 

This is the clearest photo I can find quickly of the tender rear in original condition:

 

 

[Embedded link to catalogue thumbnail of MRSC 60901; 1 August 1922]

 

and this of the cut-down tender:

 

 

[Embedded link to catalogue thumbnail of MRSC 63018]

 

In both photos the rear bulkhead of the coal space appears to be much further forward than on the KRM EP, and is straight-topped.

 

I think this bulkhead must have been completely removed during the period the engine was oil-fired:

 

 

[Embedded link to catalogue thumbnail of MRSC 66922] 

[Fair Oak Junction]

You can sort of see the tender top in this shot, not the best angle though.

[AlfaZagato]

Things are looking better here.   I may be on for a preorder, if I can run it through a retailer.

 

May be time to see if my first-run LMS Garratt will tolerate DCC and sound after 10 years of abuse...

[Fair Oak Junction]

7 minutes ago, AlfaZagato said:

Things are looking better here.   I may be on for a preorder, if I can run it through a retailer.

 

May be time to see if my first-run LMS Garratt will tolerate DCC and sound after 10 years of abuse...

 

Rails of Sheffield has them for pre-order.

[adb968008]

The tender was supposedly modified from this beast…

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Midland_Railway_Paget_locomotive
 

 

Edited November 27, 2023 by adb968008

[Compound2632]

15 minutes ago, adb968008 said:

The tender was supposedly modified from this beast…

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Midland_Railway_Paget_locomotive

 

An incorrect supposition. Summerson sets out the facts, with reference to works orders: "The frame to be taken from a second-hand 2350 gallon tender in stock and provided with a new tank of 2,000 gallons capacity and cab similar to the tenders of the S&D mineral engines." He goes on to say that the Drawing Schedule suggests that old tender came from 0-6-0 No. 2938, built 1875, but there is some ambiguity because when the LMS introduced tender number plates in 1927, it was given a date of 1878. 

[adb968008]

12 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

 

An incorrect supposition. Summerson sets out the facts, with reference to works orders: "The frame to be taken from a second-hand 2350 gallon tender in stock and provided with a new tank of 2,000 gallons capacity and cab similar to the tenders of the S&D mineral engines." He goes on to say that the Drawing Schedule suggests that old tender came from 0-6-0 No. 2938, built 1875, but there is some ambiguity because when the LMS introduced tender number plates in 1927, it was given a date of 1878. 

Begs the question, what did happen to it ?

it would seem odd to scrap a good new tender, but it would be a one off.

so indeed it might seem odd to even build it a tender… considering it was out of budget in the first place, and the MR wasnt particularly know for spending.

 

could both not be true ?

Edited November 27, 2023 by adb968008

[Compound2632]

11 minutes ago, adb968008 said:

Begs the question, what did happen to it ?

it would seem odd to scrap a good new tender, but it would be a one off.

so indeed it might seem odd to even build it a tender… considering it was out of budget in the first place, and the MR wasnt particularly know for spending.

 

could both not be true ?

 

There was a surprisingly large stock of old tenders in stock from 1917 onwards, as there was quite a lot of tender shuffling going on. Summerson doesn't have anything to say about the Paget locomotive. It might just be possible to trace its tender in the records, I suppose. 

 

What is clear is that Big Bertha's tender was given a new tank of non-standard capacity.