Hornby announce TT:120

[britishcolumbian]

47 minutes ago, J-Lewis said:

Also for TT everyone is starting from scratch so buying a set makes perfect sense because it’s even better value than buying locos and track etc. separately.  I expect it’s what most of us have done.

I'd argue it might even be the better way to do it just for the stock, even if you don't intend to use the Hornby track...

[teletougos]

On 06/05/2024 at 18:08, AY Mod said:

 

Those are all observations and opinions; can you not understand the difference between that and you stating things as facts? It really, really irritates me.

 

 

The comment about Ally Pally seems to be true.

 

I was there and there was indeed only one stall which showed TT120.

 

So how is that opinion?  

[AY Mod]

5 minutes ago, teletougos said:

 

 

The comment about Ally Pally seems to be true.

 

I was there and there was indeed only one stall which showed TT120.

 

So how is that opinion?  

 

One part is possible but there's a whole basket load of barmy bits.

 

Quote

There seems to be a surpisingly common belief that there's something off about the scale - that the coaches are being made to a different scale to the locos 

 

Go on; tell me more how that's based on fact.

[teletougos]

6 minutes ago, AY Mod said:

 

 

 

 

Go on; tell me more how that's based on fact.

 

Did you read my post? I said nothing about the coaches.  I was talking about Ally Pally. 

 

And It would be hard to ascertain a general view about TT coaches as there aren't very many shops selling them. (Which may go back to the issue of the scale's lack of visibility.)

 

You'd need a shop or a stall, where a few modellers are looking at them at the same time, and making comments, I'd guess. 

 

I haven't been in that situation.  But maybe the poster has? 

Edited May 8 by teletougos

[teletougos]

On 06/05/2024 at 20:08, britishcolumbian said:

In their defence - I'm one of them - we've still only got a rather limited selection of stuff to buy.

 

In my own case, I'm living overseas right now, and it'll be a good six months before I can seriously start working on anything, and I'm not in a big rush to start until there's more GWR/WR stuff available, as my plan is to model Pen Mill - alongside my existing Hungarian project, for which I'm much closer to being able to start work (in terms of research, models/kits owned, etc).

 

But the main thing is - we're only 18 months in, what do you expect, honestly? Rome wasn't built in a day.

 

I don't think it's unreasonable to say that TT stuff trickles through at a slow pace because the originator of the product doesn't make any of it, and as as result it does not have very much impact.

 

It just isn't visible enough. And I can't see how that's going to change.   

 

It is a serious problem for a new scale, when one goes to the biggest London model railway show, and there is only one stall that has any of it on display, in a small case off to the side. 

 

Fact : it is hard to get people in China to do the jobs needed to in order to manufacture TT. That is not unique to Hornby.

 

Speculation : maybe they just waited too late?

 

If they'd taken the jump a decade or so back,  when they were in the early stages of considering it, things may have been different, but they waited a decade, and the Chinese workforce changed hugely in that decade. And will keep on changing. 

Edited May 8 by teletougos

[AY Mod]

16 minutes ago, teletougos said:

But maybe the poster has? 

 

He doesn't normally bother with evidence.

[AY Mod]

5 minutes ago, teletougos said:

It is hard to get people to do the jobs needed to in order to manufacture it

 

I don't think so; there are multiple factories in China offering their services. I get a couple of approaches a month as they think I'm a potential customer.

 

TT120 is an easier product to assemble than much of the current 4mm output; fewer parts, less separately fitted detail.

[teletougos]

24 minutes ago, AY Mod said:

 

I don't think so; there are multiple factories in China offering their services. I get a couple of approaches a month as they think I'm a potential customer.

 

TT120 is an easier product to assemble than much of the current 4mm output; fewer parts, less separately fitted detail.

 

I go to areas in Zhejiang where a lot of precision stuff is made.  Not model trains, but they use the same kinds of modality and some of the same bits. The factories continually tell county and provincial officials that the workforce they need, twenty-somethings, mainly female, are hard to tempt now. 

 

China is in the midst of huge social changes, coming out the pandemic.   

 

Unlike say, if Hornby elected to manufacture in Japan, the Chinese themselves don't like model trains much. It's not an aesthetic that appeals to them.  So there may not be the necessary sympathy or bias in favour of the product itself. 

 

I would say Hornby don't have an ability to influence those factors.  

 

That has the follow-through that a large amount of tangible bits of the new scale are not physically in reach for the end consumer, in their intended market.  

 

One little case at Ally Pally, off to the side.  In the biggest show?  In the biggest city?   That's bad, by any measure. 

 

Anyway, enough from me. Over to Hornby. 

Edited May 8 by teletougos

[britishcolumbian]

14 minutes ago, teletougos said:

One little case at Ally Pally, off to the side.  In the biggest show?  In the biggest city?

*Eighteen months* after the unveiling.

[Hobby]

It's interesting that they've had a large TT120 presence at many other large shows, most recently at Glasgow, but it seems from the last two posts not at AP, perhaps that might be a reflection of the type of custom it attracts and cost for the stand than anything else... 

[AY Mod]

1 hour ago, teletougos said:

One little case at Ally Pally, off to the side.  In the biggest show?  In the biggest city?   That's bad, by any measure. 

 

52 minutes ago, Hobby said:

not at AP, perhaps that might be a reflection of the type of custom it attracts and cost for the stand than anything else... 

 

I'm sure if traders had got stock they'd have had it on the stands. Why wouldn't they? Are they hiding it from customers? 😉

[moawkwrd]

I may be off base here but I wouldn’t be surprised if a lot of TT:120ers aren’t the type to go to shows in the first place, let alone physical shops to buy stock either, so it’s not surprising that people firmly in other scales aren’t seeing TT in those settings.

 

It’s all YouTube and online shopping these days for me at least. Unless it’s a local show/toy fair I’m not very interested. Whether that’s the same for all newcomers I can’t say but it wouldn’t surprise me.

[osbornsmodels]

I am getting a bit tired of reading these circular, negative TT :120 comments. We were trading at the Bristol show last weekend and had a good selection of TT:120 from numerous manufacturers on sale and display including our own kits and figures, (there are plenty out there as well as Hornby).  https://www.osbornsmodels.com/tt-scale-1120-438-c.asp

I have to say there were many people looking, asking, showing interest and yes buying. We should have had more Hornby but that was down to us not ordering enough or being able to get hold of enough.

Will all those not interested in TT:120  give it a rest please and move on to something they are interested in.

Rant over.

 

[Steamport Southport]

5 hours ago, J-Lewis said:

Also for TT everyone is starting from scratch so buying a set makes perfect sense because it’s even better value than buying locos and track etc. separately.  I expect it’s what most of us have done.

 

Not me as there is nothing in the sets that I actually want!

 

So, I bought the PECO GWR station. No GWR available....

 

Hornby announce a J50 so I bought the LCUT LNER signal box.

 

https://lcut.co.uk/index.php?product=B TT0-02&title=B TT0-02

 

I'll pick up an LNER brake van at some point, but looked at the LNER vans. Why are they GWR vans in LNER livery or with ER markings?

 

https://uk.Hornby.com/products/lner-vent-van-era-3-tt6005

 

https://uk.Hornby.com/products/lner-vent-van-era-3-tt6004

 

https://uk.Hornby.com/products/br-vent-van-era-4-tt6006

 

I'm afraid these things shouldn't be happening in 2024. So after much umming and ahhing I bought a Ruston & Hornsby 88DS instead whilst pondering where I can get GWR transfers from....

 

The reason why serious modellers aren't taking up TT is above. There just isn't a coherent range available yet for those past the train set stage. Maybe in the next couple of years there will be. Until then I'll slowly add bits as I go along. So don't expect a layout anytime soon.

 

However my idea of a quick GWR BLT is on hold and seems to have moved to somewhere like Yorkshire!

 

 

Jason

[Hobby]

1 hour ago, AY Mod said:

I'm sure if traders had got stock they'd have had it on the stands. Why wouldn't they? Are they hiding it from customers? 😉

 

 

I was thinking more about a Hornby display rather than traders, Andy, I'd agree with you about them. But Moawkwrd makes the point better, so far all my purchases other than some Peco stuff has been online and from what I see on FB that's the most common way. No doubt when shops have more stock we'll see more shop sales, though whether that applies to shows is anyone's guess. Though I did pick up a TT120 wagon at the Bridgnorth swapmeet recently, so it's starting to filter down!!

 

1 hour ago, moawkwrd said:

I may be off base here but I wouldn’t be surprised if a lot of TT:120ers aren’t the type to go to shows in the first place, let alone physical shops to buy stock either, so it’s not surprising that people firmly in other scales aren’t seeing TT in those settings.

 

Edited May 8 by Hobby
spelling

[smr248]

1 hour ago, Steamport Southport said:

 but looked at the LNER vans. Why are they GWR vans in LNER livery

I wondered the same.  It's strange that it's not a case of shrinking OO down to TT when it appears that that is what they've done (sort of).  Is it that costly to scan a wagon?  Perhaps it is but it would be nice to see some sort of coherent plan.

Also would be nice to see more rtr wagons from Peco or someone else.

[Steamport Southport]

20 minutes ago, smr248 said:

I wondered the same.  It's strange that it's not a case of shrinking OO down to TT when it appears that that is what they've done (sort of).  Is it that costly to scan a wagon?  Perhaps it is but it would be nice to see some sort of coherent plan.

Also would be nice to see more rtr wagons from Peco or someone else.

 

After having a quick look through transfer makers it seems that Railtec might be the solution for GWR livery vans. Cambridge Custom Transfers will probably do BR era, so that's two transfer manufacturers on board.

 

https://www.railtec-models.com/showitem.php?id=11389

 

https://www.railtec-models.com/showitem.php?id=11391

 

Now to work out what diagrams the Hornby van is closest to, but I assume the V23/V24 like Ratio made.

 

 

 

Jason

Edited May 8 by Steamport Southport
Wrong link

[Jeff Smith]

May's RM has an article about Pecorama's latest additions which includes a GWR BLT in TT:120......

[HExpressD]

20 minutes ago, Jeff Smith said:

May's RM has an article about Pecorama's latest additions which includes a GWR BLT in TT:120......

I prefer LMS Cheese and Pickle

[009 micro modeller]

2 hours ago, HExpressD said:

I prefer LMS Cheese and Pickle

LNER ham salad for me.

 

 

[J-Lewis]

7 hours ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

I'll pick up an LNER brake van at some point, but looked at the LNER vans. Why are they GWR vans in LNER livery or with ER markings?

 

They look like LNER brake vans to me?  https://www.steve-banks.org/modelling/188-lner-goods-brake-van-toad-e
 

I thought GWR brake vans were vans had a porch at one end? Like the old Triang TT ‘toad’?

[Steamport Southport]

3 minutes ago, J-Lewis said:

They look like LNER brake vans to me?  https://www.steve-banks.org/modelling/188-lner-goods-brake-van-toad-e
 

I thought GWR brake vans were vans had a porch at one end? Like the old Triang TT ‘toad’?

 

The vans, not the brake vans.

 

LNER vans had sliding doors.

 

This is pure GWR but with LNER markings.

 

https://uk.Hornby.com/products/lner-vent-van-era-3-tt6004

 

 

Geof Sheppard via Wiki

 

 

Jason

[J-Lewis]

33 minutes ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

The vans, not the brake vans.

Ah I see.  Misunderstood you.

[Legend]

8 hours ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

8 hours ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

The reason why serious modellers aren't taking up TT is above. There just isn't a coherent range available yet for those past the train set stage. Maybe in the next couple of years there will be. Until then I'll slowly add bits as I go along. So don't expect a layout anytime soon.

 

However my idea of a quick GWR BLT is on hold and seems to have moved to somewhere like Yorkshire!

 

 

Jason

 

And I think that's why you are not seeing layouts at exhibitions ........yet !

 

Peco have GWR branchline equipment but no loco . You can't really run LNER Pacific on  it . OK we've now got an 08 but apart from TTA not really much to run with it 

 

No cohesion and that affects enthusiasts who will not build unrealistic layouts ie Pacifics on a branch line .

 

There is hope because we now have HST and the 50 is coming out (although a 47 would have been better)

 

Other range introductions were different . With Mainline in 1976 there was a fairly cohesive range , but it didn't really matter because you could run with other manufacturers products . But of course with TT120 there are no other manufacturers .

 

I know Graham Farish had been around since the 70s in N with 94xx, GER Holden tank and GWR Hall . But to me there was a significant expansion of range, almost a reintroduction in 1981 with 37/47 and HST. that was a Cohesive range and I can't help wondering if Hornby had introduced these if we would have more take up by now . But I suppose to a newcomer a Flying Scotsman may be more of a draw . I think that was Simon Kohler's view anyway . I'm not so sure 

 

 

 

 

[Les1952]

39 minutes ago, Legend said:

 

 

 

Other range introductions were different . With Mainline in 1976 there was a fairly cohesive range , but it didn't really matter because you could run with other manufacturers products . But of course with TT120 there are no other manufacturers .

 

I know Graham Farish had been around since the 70s in N with 94xx, GER Holden tank and GWR Hall . But to me there was a significant expansion of range, almost a reintroduction in 1981 with 37/47 and HST. that was a Cohesive range and I can't help wondering if Hornby had introduced these if we would have more take up by now . But I suppose to a newcomer a Flying Scotsman may be more of a draw . I think that was Simon Kohler's view anyway . I'm not so sure 

 

 

 

 

 

On my TT:120 layout I have motive power by Hornby, Arnold (Hornby), Roco, Kuhn, Piko, Tillig, Kres, Schirmer and MTB.  I also have a loco by Beckmann on pre-order.   I think that adds up to ten manufacturers, or eight outside the Hornby group.

 

Perhaps you need to include the words UK outline in that statement, though even that could be a temporary state- we'll know better in a year or two...

 

 

 

The latest steamer- a bit bigger than a Gresley Pacific, but runs round my R2 curves....   Like the layout, it will be in action at Syston Club's show at Barkby Thorpe this weekend.

 

 Les

Edited May 8 by Les1952
added pic