Heljan ES1 exclusive for Locomotion and Rails of Sheffield

[Darius43]

Totally wrong for the layout that my friend and I are building but I have ordered one from Locomotion.  We have several trouble-free Heljan locomotives “in shed” so I am enthusiastic about this one.  I guess if others want to be disappointed they will find a way to achieve disappointment.

 

Cheers

 

Darius

[adb968008]

11 hours ago, 298 said:

 

I'm not saying they're not similar, but there are quite a few major visual differences between the British, French and GE home locos and between these and the Kearsley Power Station locos. Some of the electrical gear on the ES1 looked similar tho to GE, but the styling tended to follow what the builder was used to for contemporary steam locos, which for alot of US builders meant a steam loco cab and tender trucks. It'd be like repainting a Lord Westwood back to green and sticking any name on you liked...

Its nothing like the Kearsley ones, they were very short in length.

 

its not a million miles from the French one, though at £220 I wont be buying one as a starting point for a conversion.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steeplecab#/media/File:1900_E1_Boîte_à_Sel.JPG

 

 

[PhilJ W]

1 hour ago, adb968008 said:

Its nothing like the Kearsley ones, they were very short in length.

 

its not a million miles from the French one, though at £220 I wont be buying one as a starting point for a conversion.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steeplecab#/media/File:1900_E1_Boîte_à_Sel.JPG

The Kearsley ones were industrial locomotives but as they've been mentioned the biggest user of steeple cab locomotives in the UK must be the Harton system. There is also the small English Electric four wheel shunter which was built in some numbers (over 160 IIRC). These were built with battery, pantograph, trolley pole and even third rail as a source of power and would be an ideal subject for a model as small shunters both steam and diesel seem to be very popular.

[friscopete]

With reference to price .I suspect many will be able to afford trains still .Its usually men past ,in my case well past ,their  optimal breeding peak 😃 who can indulge in hobbies .Usually a recession doesnt really hit  hard at them as if they had crap jobs they wouldnt buy toy  trains in the first place .What may well make life a bit harder this time is power increases  that will soak away that spare money  leaving far less in the pocket .We may well see fewer br and new  posh big cars around as those fancy deals for a car you never own will become expensive .W ho knows but it may not be uber gloomy out there in model train land.

Edited October 31, 2022 by friscopete

[The Stationmaster]

On 29/10/2022 at 22:13, Legend said:

I think there are parallel economies going on . There is no doubt that there are people who are really struggling  in this with energy , food and even mortgages going up . On the other hand there are a tranche of people who are comfortably off , who might complain about energy prices being triple what they were last year but can still absorb the impact , and having no mortgage are still relatively comfortably off . Im probably one of them.  I would suggest that the majority of people into model railways are in this latter category .    However there has to be a limit as to what people will pay and what they are interested in . To me a rather bespoke electric loco , of which there were two, spending most of their times in tunnels in Newcastle is stretching it . This locos not high on the list it’s not even on my list ! Coupled with a £220. Price it’s just a non starter for me. I really wonder if this was a wise choice , but then there are people signing up for Clayton DHPC I think that’s it - it’s a version of something I never knew about , and I don’t think  ever ran on BR, from KR models , so what do I know ?  Incredible !
 

I’m coming to the conclusion that I’m out of touch with the market . I can’t understand why things like this are being made  while , to me , more obvious candidates like a 313/314/315/507/508 are ignored .  
 

Oh well sorry for the rant . I hope it makes money for Rails  so that other special  commissions are made, but this one’s not for me . Locomotion are just too difficult  to deal with and Heljan are presumably covered in their exposure as it’s a limited edition for Locomotion/Rails . I forecast bargains at Model Rail Scotland at the locomotion  stand  next year . And even then I’m not interested . 

As ever the market will decide.  And very niche locos have seemingly sold well in recent times including the Beattie Well Tanks (now I suspect having been  produced and sold, in total, in far greater numbers than some of Hornby's recent new released locos). DHP1 which you mentioned and which never turned a wheel in revenue earning traffic and did hardly any mileage at all on the national network; similarly GT3 which also never turned a wheel on anything other than test runs, and such things as the GW gas turbines witha limited sphere of operation..

 

The big problem for anyone making any of these things is balancing the number produced against the cost in order to arrive at a marketable selling price and lower numbers immediately mean a higher price while offering more livery variants - as with ES1 - increases overall production costs which again impacts price.   The Science Museum's approach to the commercial business case for anything any museum in the group is involved in is very rigorous - probably far more rigorous than that of some commercial companies.  So there will certainly have been some very careful number crunching as far as NRM/Locomotion involvement is concerned and it will have been required to show very positive results at a particular rate of return.  I suspect they (and Rails as well) know more about their worldwide market than we do and I know that Locomotion have been actively involved in selling the model to some of their target customers.

[micklner]

6 minutes ago, The Stationmaster said:

As ever the market will decide.  And very niche locos have seemingly sold well in recent times including the Beattie Well Tanks (now I suspect having been  produced and sold, in total, in far greater numbers than some of Hornby's recent new released locos). DHP1 which you mentioned and which never turned a wheel in revenue earning traffic and did hardly any mileage at all on the national network; similarly GT3 which also never turned a wheel on anything other than test runs, and such things as the GW gas turbines witha limited sphere of operation..

 

The big problem for anyone making any of these things is balancing the number produced against the cost in order to arrive at a marketable selling price and lower numbers immediately mean a higher price while offering more livery variants - as with ES1 - increases overall production costs which again impacts price.   The Science Museum's approach to the commercial business case for anything any museum in the group is involved in is very rigorous - probably far more rigorous than that of some commercial companies.  So there will certainly have been some very careful number crunching as far as NRM/Locomotion involvement is concerned and it will have been required to show very positive results at a particular rate of return.  I suspect they (and Rails as well) know more about their worldwide market than we do and I know that Locomotion have been actively involved in selling the model to some of their target customers.

To make any profit on the ES1 they will have to sell a huge amount they are only selling direct the NER version. No idea if they get a cut from the sales of other versions only sold by Rails, or if Rails actually finance the whole thing, no interest  personally either way.

 

They are still trying to sell other earlier issued releases as well, still at full price.

[D5158]

To ALL with no interest in this model.

 

If you have no interest in this model please don’t fill this thread with your meaningless comments and waste my and everyone else’s time having to read through this nonsense in the hope there will be an intelligent and constructive input.

 

Thanking you in anticipation.

[chris p bacon]

58 minutes ago, D5158 said:

please don’t fill this thread with your meaningless comments and waste my and everyone else’s time

take your own advice, I was enjoying the thread till you posted….🥱

[Porcy Mane]

*Meaningless Drivel Alert*

 

Unless Heljan are giving us a detachable dragbeam buffer plank  (pressure treated with anti woodworm fluid), corrected the livery on 26500, give us three link couplings and fit correct gauge wheels, I'll not be having one.  Harrumph!

 

 

Ok boys, you can get back to converting this thread into a wish list.

 

P

Edited November 1, 2022 by Porcy Mane
Sort oot me words afta a spank'n.

[Compound2632]

5 minutes ago, Porcy Mane said:

Unless Heljan are giving us a detachable dragbeam (pressure treated with anti woodworm fluid)

 

I make that a buffer beam or plank; is dragbeam a piece of North Eastern Railway locomotive dialect? I don't see how it does any dragging - that is, takes any load, the drawhook passing through it.

[Porcy Mane]

3 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

North Eastern Railway locomotive dialect?

 

A little more North Eastern Railway locomotive dialect.  "Clever sh1te"!  😋

 

"Serious head on".  I did mean to write buffer plank but my emotions got the better of me.

 

 

[Flying Pig]

1 hour ago, Compound2632 said:

 

I make that a buffer beam or plank; is dragbeam a piece of North Eastern Railway locomotive dialect? I don't see how it does any dragging - that is, takes any load, the drawhook passing through it.

 

Doesn't the rouge make it a dragbeam?

[Compound2632]

11 minutes ago, Flying Pig said:

Doesn't the rouge make it a dragbeam?

 

Is every King a Queen?

[70E]

I appreciate it comes down to economies of scale (excuse the pun) and customer demand etc and I agree £220 is a lot of money for a locomotive but compare it to a Heljan O gauge CCT van at £199 or £219 weathered or the SR CCT/PMV at similar retailer prices the loco looks to be quite good value.

 

[Bishdurham]

I'm thinking that this is not the top of my list and I am quite happy to wait and see.  Although a NER version would be my choice and others have noted Locomotion are never in a rush to do discounts.  They also appear to use gold leaf in the packing materials, judging by their shipping costs compared to others.

[GeoffBird]

On 01/11/2022 at 16:16, Porcy Mane said:

 

 

 

 

 

                                          CAN I HAVE THE ONE BEHIND INSTEAD!!!

 

[Southernman46]

Just glad I can afford one - splendid subject, a DC locomotive - it will sit with all the other "prototypes & one-offs" display - who'd have thought 15 years ago we'd now have had (and these are just those I've indulged in) ............

DP1, Falcon, Lion, Kestrel, 10001, 10201, 10203, 18000, Sarah Siddons, APT-E, Brighton Belle, Derby lightweight DMMU and that beautiful SE&CR "C" ..................................👌

Not forgetting the other "odd" Classes 15, 16, 17, 22, 23, 28, 41, 71 ............................👍

 

Surely the "Hornby's" are just a matter of time 🤞

[PaulRhB]

On 28/10/2022 at 12:04, AY Mod said:

Model Spec

- DCC Ready chassis with Next18 interface

The only thing is on previous experience the Heljan locos are a bit demanding on current and the next18’s are generally lower current specs so it could be interesting!
Zimo mx618 0.7amp 1.5max

Dapol Imperium 1amp 2max

ESU lokpilot 0.75amp max not specified. 

 

[oleander]

Saw the model to day at the NEC. Very nice looks great,But way over priced. It is a small eletric loco. You can get a lot of small medium and large model locos for less than this one is priced. So I will pass unless I see it in the bargin bin

[AY Mod]

1 minute ago, oleander said:

So I will pass unless I see it in the bargin bin

 

You may not be the target market if your buying choices are made on length. 🥺

[Porcy Mane]

12 minutes ago, AY Mod said:

You may not be the target market if your buying choices are made on length. 🥺

 

Especially if it involves sausage meat.

 

I'll be having a BR green jobby even though they've got the livery wrong.

 

 

[PhilJ W]

2 hours ago, oleander said:

Saw the model to day at the NEC. Very nice looks great,But way over priced. It is a small eletric loco. You can get a lot of small medium and large model locos for less than this one is priced. So I will pass unless I see it in the bargin bin

It's a very 'niche' model and will not attract the sort of sales that say a Jinty would attract and therefore the costs will have to be passed onto the customer.

[oleander]

20 hours ago, PhilJ W said:

It's a very 'niche' model and will not attract the sort of sales that say a Jinty would attract and therefore the costs will have to be passed onto the customer.

 I hear what you are saying ,But by putting the price were it is. There a lot of potential customers that will say: I like it but will pass on the price. 
On The Niche part. Prototype locos have sold well in the UK model market in the past. I think KR models are on there 3rd run of GT3. Some niche models can have wide appeal if priced well.

[oleander]

23 hours ago, AY Mod said:

 

You may not be the target market if your buying choices are made on length. 🥺

Cant beat a UP Big Boy 

[AlfaZagato]

9 hours ago, oleander said:

Cant beat a UP Big Boy 

Which can't be had for nearly twice the list.