Hornby 2023 - Bluetooth decoders and control system

[Izzy]

The packaging states ‘tri-mode’ and compatible with all existing DCC & DC controllers along with ‘conforms to all relevant NMRA standards in DCC operation’. The proof of the pudding will, as always, be in the eating, but the general premise seems good for those that want it. As ever, price will be key, as it has been for TTS, where that offset the downsides. 
 

Bob

[adb968008]

This is pretty cool and the genesis of a very good idea.

 

i can see a bit of potential in this one.

at last we move on from dcc.

i read elsewhere though, no sound on DC, i hope that can be overcome overtime (they are already putting out a 9 second capacitor, surely a stronger one could overcome the dc sound hurdle, unless ive read wrong ?

[RedgateModels]

6 minutes ago, Izzy said:

The packaging states ‘tri-mode’ and compatible with all existing DCC & DC controllers along with ‘conforms to all relevant NMRA standards in DCC operation’. The proof of the pudding will, as always, be in the eating, but the general premise seems good for those that want it. As ever, price will be key, as it has been for TTS, where that offset the downsides. 
 

Bob

 

and how good the motor control is - if it's up to Lenz/Zimo standards then they are on to a winner IMHO

[TomScrut]

This looks like an interesting step in the right direction and an intelligent way of implementing it so it is compatible with existing infrastructure.

 

The question will be, how fully featured are the decoders in terms of functions, function mapping, speed curves etc?

Edited January 10, 2023 by TomScrut

[BR Blue]

1 hour ago, Kris said:

The ability to easily download and change sounds on your decoder is a game changer. 

I do not think you can say it is a game changer at this stage. You have been able to download sounds for other DCC systems for years. It depends on price of the system, the ease of use and quality of the sound. I think there are too many unknowns at this stage. Hopefully it will be good.

[meatloaf]

The class 20 is an obvious omission from previous files, especially as its in a set this year.

 

Are the sound files the same aa were used on TTS decoders or are they new. They didnt really say in the video.

 

I might not be understanding correctly, but if i buy the 73 or the 08 with the new sound prefitted - will it run out of the box on my Prodigy system? Or will i need the legacy dongle? I cant see guagemaster honouring any warranty on my controller ( if i needed to use it in the future ) if its had a 3rd party device plugged into it.

 

Seems like a good idea for folks going DCC for first time but for existing dcc users it seems a faff if youve got to use an app to do everything. In my head in thinking ok so ive got a blank decoder and installed it in a loco. Wheres the loco getting power from to download the files to the decoder?

 

At £70 RRP for the decoder its not much more for a loksound or zimo decoder. The beauty of TTS when it first came out was the cost - it was a lot cheaper than the relevant zimo or loksound chip.

 

 

[JohnR]

I think this is potentially very exciting, its just a pity that it isn't clear about how this would be used in connection with other systems

 

Will the new TXS Bluetooth decoders work with my existing DCC system? I take it I need the app to "load" the sounds onto the chip. How does the legacy dongle work? It says that it just plugs into the Elite or Select - what about other systems? The list of sounds available is impressive - but there are some obvious ones missing, eg 1st Gen DMU, GW locos, Class 47 - strange as there are models of these classes announced today. 

[NXEA!]

This is brilliant, very forward thinking. Personally, very excited to see a B12 sound file being made available after the TTS version was cancelled.  

[miles73128]

8 minutes ago, JohnR said:

I think this is potentially very exciting, its just a pity that it isn't clear about how this would be used in connection with other systems

 

Will the new TXS Bluetooth decoders work with my existing DCC system? I take it I need the app to "load" the sounds onto the chip. How does the legacy dongle work? It says that it just plugs into the Elite or Select - what about other systems? The list of sounds available is impressive - but there are some obvious ones missing, eg 1st Gen DMU, GW locos, Class 47 - strange as there are models of these classes announced today. 

I use DCC, but I have a limited understanding of the tech elements. But I'm guessing, the sounds are downloaded to the App, played by the chip in the loco, so the sound is coming from the loco as a remote speaker for the App? So I dont understand how they (eg 73 and 08) will play on regular DCC?

 

[NoggintheNog]

37 minutes ago, meatloaf said:

 

 

At £70 RRP for the decoder its not much more for a loksound or zimo decoder. The beauty of TTS when it first came out was the cost - it was a lot cheaper than the relevant zimo or loksound chip.

 

 

 

Its £65.

 

A Zimo MS is over £120, and Loksound 5 is around £115, so the Hornby is half the price.

 

The biggest issues with TTS has always been volume adjustment and the limited range of sound due to dual channel restriction. This appears to be designed to solve both problems.

 

You need to remember, this is not competing with Legoman and Youchoose, it is offering sounds at affordable prices for the mass market. 

Edited January 10, 2023 by NoggintheNog

[newbryford]

1 hour ago, RedgateModels said:

interesting

 

so $50,000 question, do the new decoders also function as regular DCC decoders? 

 

I guess you can use the legacy dongle to control non bluetooth decoders with the new app, if this is the case then I can see me upgrading to a Z21 - but then the Z21 has it's own wifi app ......

 

The blurb states that they are NMRA DCC compatible. So it would look like it.

 

20 minutes ago, JohnR said:

I think this is potentially very exciting, its just a pity that it isn't clear about how this would be used in connection with other systems

 

Will the new TXS Bluetooth decoders work with my existing DCC system? I take it I need the app to "load" the sounds onto the chip. How does the legacy dongle work? It says that it just plugs into the Elite or Select - what about other systems? The list of sounds available is impressive - but there are some obvious ones missing, eg 1st Gen DMU, GW locos, Class 47 - strange as there are models of these classes announced today. 

 

The dongle is shown as also plugging into other Expressnet systems - such as Roco Z21 and Lenz.

That'll probably be be my way forward to upgrade my Lenz to wireless.

 

What isn't clear is how it will interface with other systems - NCE for example.

 

e.g. - a user with an NCE system has two locos on the track - one with TXS and one with another decoder.

The NCE can control both locos, but the app can only control the TXS fitted loco is my understanding.

 

But then again - if I wanted wireless control for an NCE, I'd be going down the wifitraxx route.

 

Edited January 10, 2023 by newbryford
typo

[JohnR]

3 minutes ago, miles73128 said:

I use DCC, but I have a limited understanding of the tech elements. But I'm guessing, the sounds are downloaded to the App, played by the chip in the loco, so the sound is coming from the loco as a remote speaker for the App? So I dont understand how they (eg 73 and 08) will play on regular DCC?

 

 

Its that interaction what is unanswered. Also, there seems to be (from the video on world of railways with the project manager) to be a DC mode - how does that work? 

[meatloaf]

Just now, NoggintheNog said:

 

Its £65.

 

A Zimo MS is over £120, and Loksound 5 is around £115, so the Hornby is half the price.

 

The biggest issues with TTS has always been volume adjustment and the limited range of sound due to dual channel restriction. This appears to be designed to solve both problems.

 

You need to remember, this is not competing with Legoman and Youchoose, it is offering sounds at affordable prices for the mass market. 

Yes £65 at the retailler, but its not clear if i will need to use the legacy dongle to write the files to the decoder which adds extra costs. 

 

Im a big fan of the TTS decoders, especially the class 20 and 08 which i think are some of the best theyve done.

 

Hopefully when there available some youtube videos will show up telling us exactly what the process is.

[newbryford]

1 minute ago, meatloaf said:

Yes £65 at the retailler, but its not clear if i will need to use the legacy dongle to write the files to the decoder which adds extra costs. 

 

Im a big fan of the TTS decoders, especially the class 20 and 08 which i think are some of the best theyve done.

 

Hopefully when there available some youtube videos will show up telling us exactly what the process is.

 

 

I thought it used bluetooth to write directly from phone to decoder?

[NoggintheNog]

2 minutes ago, meatloaf said:

Yes £65 at the retailler, but its not clear if i will need to use the legacy dongle to write the files to the decoder which adds extra costs. 

 

 

Looking at the site, and from the writeup in Hornby Magazine, it seems that it is the app that takes care of sound downloads. The dongle allows bluetooth control of your existing dcc equipped locos. 

[meatloaf]

2 minutes ago, NoggintheNog said:

Looking at the site, and from the writeup in Hornby Magazine, it seems that it is the app that takes care of sound downloads. The dongle allows bluetooth control of your existing dcc equipped locos. 

So either way it isnt just the decoder that i need to buy. I'll probably need the dongle also which is another £30 odd quid. 

 

So for the prefitted 08, 56 and 73 - can i buy it in the shop and run it on a non Hornby system like my prodigy without the need to buy extra equipment.

 

If the dongles needed as well as the decoder it pushes the price up much closer the the zimo / eus sound. Although this would only be for the first decoder

 

Looking at it another way - i guess this could be a way of making my prodigy wireless. I dont know. Certainly i think it would void my guagemaster warranty as they probably say the use of 3rd party equipment voids it. 

[newbryford]

7 minutes ago, NoggintheNog said:

Looking at the site, and from the writeup in Hornby Magazine, it seems that it is the app that takes care of sound downloads. The dongle allows bluetooth control of your existing dcc equipped locos. 

 

But that would appear only to be the case if your system has expressnet protocols

 

 

[JSpencer]

Currently I run my DCC from PC but am looking to replace this.

 

Now if this system just had a blue tooth compatible box to plug straight into the track work so I could run all my DCC fitted locos (TTS and others) from it. I think it could be an ideal solution. 

(Maybe this option exists and I mis-understood it).

 

It seems odd to need TWO DCC controllers (even if the second one is my phone), one to cope with all my other DCC and the other for this system. It also MIGHT mean I can automate the layout to run itself if locos are being controlled by two different systems. 

 

PS: I checked but my existing DCC box (the bit between PC and the rails) does not use the Dongle like plug. 

Edited January 10, 2023 by JSpencer

[NoggintheNog]

12 minutes ago, meatloaf said:

So either way it isnt just the decoder that i need to buy. I'll probably need the dongle also which is another £30 odd quid. 

 

 

The only thing the dongle is for, is if you want to control your existing DCC locos with the app.

 

You can use the app to download sounds to your new Hornby decoder then control it with your current DCC system without any dongle at all. 

[Legend]

I just turn the knob on my controller and the train goes . Completely lost on this . HM6000 was a Bluetooth analogue system . This seems to be replacing it but is DCC . What am I missing ?  Or does it have the ability to control a HM7000 equipped loco on analogue using smartphone .  Confused.com 

[JSpencer]

2 hours ago, adb968008 said:

This is pretty cool and the genesis of a very good idea.

 

i can see a bit of potential in this one.

at last we move on from dcc.

i read elsewhere though, no sound on DC, i hope that can be overcome overtime (they are already putting out a 9 second capacitor, surely a stronger one could overcome the dc sound hurdle, unless ive read wrong ?

 

That is a good question!

 

If I place the sound fitted HM7000 on a track powered by a plain DC control without using the phone app, will the loco act like a normal loco under DC ?

I suspect not because how will it know the difference based on a DC  supply that it is suppose to respond to the app or my DC controller? Or does the thing act like a DC loco until it detects the blue tooth signal from the app.

 

Now if they are saying - controlling from Bluetooth - and the supply is DC, will make  the sound un-available, then this is weird. 

 

There are going to be some experiments....

Edited January 10, 2023 by JSpencer

[RAF96]

2 hours ago, RedgateModels said:

interesting

 

so $50,000 question, do the new decoders also function as regular DCC decoders? 

 

I guess you can use the legacy dongle to control non bluetooth decoders with the new app, if this is the case then I can see me upgrading to a Z21 - but then the Z21 has it's own wifi app ......

 

Yes they do - CV12 switches control twixt BLE and DCC.

Legacy decoders are assigned to the dongle which passes App commands to the legacy decoders via the Xpressnet port equipped DCC controller.

[JSpencer]

3 minutes ago, RAF96 said:

 

Yes they do - CV12 switches control twixt BLE and DCC.

Legacy decoders are assigned to the dongle which passes App commands to the legacy decoders via the Xpressnet port equipped DCC controller.

 

And if your DCC controler (mine is a PC) does not have an Xpressnet port??? (the latest laptops generally do not)  I wonder if it can connect to PC via blue tooth?

[RAF96]

1 minute ago, JSpencer said:

 

That is a good question!

 

If I place the sound fitted HM7000 on a track powered by a plain DC control without using the phone app, will the loco act like a normal loco under DC ?

I suspect not because how will it know the difference based on a DC  supply that it is suppose to respond to the app or my DC controller? Or does the thing act like a DC loco until it detects the blue tooth signal from the app.

 

Now if - controlling from Bluetooth - that the sound won't be available from a plain DC supply, this is weird. My knowledge on electronics are out dated by now, but I thought most/all rectified AC currents (such as DCC supply) to DC, so it should not make a difference.

 

There are going to be some experiments....

 

 

 

The decoder just needs to be powered up to work. The sound comes from the decoder.

The decoder will run under pure DC controller conditions but as per a legacy DCC decoder it will be unreliable in control as when the analogue voltage is turned down the decoder will die until rebooted when the voltage is turned up again.

The track can be powered direct from a PSU if required.

 

[RAF96]

2 minutes ago, JSpencer said:

 

And if your DCC controler (mine is a PC) does not have an Xpressnet port??? (the latest laptops generally do not)  I wonder if it can connect to PC via blue tooth?

 

Unlikely. The logic is the App sends Commands to the dongle, which translates passes them to the controller which send DCC to the track which is picked up by the legacy decoders as usual.

The new decoders send commands over the air, which is why they can read and write all CVs in seconds.