BR 16t Minerals, By Accurascale

[AY Mod]

5 minutes ago, Porcy Mane said:

The Gaffa wish listing?

 

Wasn't me, it was the other bloke wot dunnit.

[wombatofludham]

I see what you are doing - making the wagons for your forthcoming announcement of the Class 40 as I remember long rakes of these being dragged across Rugeley from Lea Hall behind 25s and 40s back in the 70s.

Timely announcement as I was a bit low on 16t minerals so can justify several packs when I've rebuilt "Wednesford" in it's new home.

[stovepipe]

Nice one - you can't have enough 16 tonners!

 

I assume Pack H is supposed to be Pre-TOPS Coal 16?

[Dunsignalling]

1 hour ago, Islesy said:

Ah, that well known unit of measurement in modelling circles 😆

The Tad being equal to four-and-a-half Smidges..... 

[The Johnster]

It's high time that the only correctly dimensioned RTR 16ton mineral in town, the pricey but pretty good Bachmann, had some competition.  All the other 00 RTR iterations of this vehicle fall foul of the 'generic 10' wheelbase' syndrome; that is, Hornby, Dapol, and older Airfix and Lima models, as well as Triang Hornby, Triang, Wrenn, and Hornby Dublo.  Because the bodies were stretched to look proportionally correct on the wrong chassis and underframe, it was difficult to correct these RTR abominations.  For many years the best available dimensionally was the old Airfix kit (which I remember at 2/6d, 12.5p), still going strong as Dapol Kitmaster.  IIRC the Bachmann's predecessor, the Mainline 16tonner, was at least on the correct underframe and dimensionally correct.

 

The Baccy model is, as I say, a good layout model, but suffers from lack of interior detail and is a bit lacking in underframe detail.  Barwell have done well in producing a decent variety of the diagrams and liveries, and mixing it a bit with running numbers, but production costs that were acceptable when this tooling appeared twenty-odd years ago are now pushing the price to the 'how much??? it's only a bl**dy mineral!' level. 

 

Which raises a minor issue for The Johnster.  Of course, a layout of my period set in South Wales cannot have too many of these things (the real thing couldn't get enough of them from the way the collieries were constantly harrassing the railway for more empties, always more empties, never enough empties, empties I say, empties, empties now), and one can argue that, as the world beyond the scenic break represents the rest of BR and these were pool, I need the whole quarter million or at least those built up to 1958, as well as the half-million XPO 7-plankers that BR reckoned they inherited in 1948...  But, I have some dozen Baccy 16tonners in a mix of steel, 7-plank XPO, and various 20/21 tonners both wooden and steel in a mix of 32 minerals; my layout is space-restriced sadly to mere 9-wagon rakes.

 

So, I will certainly be buying at least one pack of the new Accurascales.  But, if they are a significicant enough improvement on the Bachmanns such as to show them badly up, then I'll have to replace the Bachmanns...  Oh, well.  This is a classic First World problem, and one I've wanted for over sixty years of modelling railways, so tx to all at AS, well done guys!

Edited September 1, 2023 by The Johnster

[hmrspaul]

2 hours ago, Pteremy said:

Am I seeing things correctly - the triple packs A, B and C seem to have the same style of body and buffers so the only difference between the 9 wagons is the numbering?

As I mentioned earlier, and had hoped Paul I would respond, I don't think the drawings give a clear indication of what the model will be. My photos of 2 of the wagons in Pack C would suggest they will have a pressed end door. They are simply to show how the model will be written. 

 

Paul

[Mophead45143]

4 hours ago, hmrspaul said:

AC don't appear to be showing any with a pressed end door, whereas pack C has two wagons from photos I have which does have such doors - 100925 https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/brmineralweld/e3c9c2154 and 247055 https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/brmineralweld/e3cfe79f7

And all three of pack E have replating on the prototypes. https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/brmineralweld

 

Can Accurascale please confirm which packs feature pressed end doors, as per Paul's comment?

 

Keen to get an order in for several packs, but I'm not after pressed end door examples which as far as I'm aware, were getting few and far between by the late 70's.

 

Regards,

 

Cameron

[Dunsignalling]

The wheels look great, or will once they get their holes, but can I a get a request in for them to be finished in flat black (or even rust brown) rather than shiny nickel plate. The axles, too, ideally....

 

John

Edited September 1, 2023 by Dunsignalling

[McC]

2 minutes ago, Dunsignalling said:

The wheels look great, or will once they get their holes, but can I a get a request in for them to be finished in flat black rather than shiny nickel plate. The axles, too, ideally....

 

John

Our wagon wheels are always chemically blackened 

[Accurascale Fran]

39 minutes ago, Mophead45143 said:

 

Can Accurascale please confirm which packs feature pressed end doors, as per Paul's comment?

 

Keen to get an order in for several packs, but I'm not after pressed end door examples which as far as I'm aware, were getting few and far between by the late 70's.

 

Regards,

 

Cameron

 

Hi Cameron,

 

If you look at the artwork on each pack on the website it shows the end doors, so you can see pressed of fabricated https://www.accurascale.com/collections/br-16t-mineral

 

Cheers!

 

Fran 

[Mophead45143]

7 minutes ago, Accurascale Fran said:

 

Hi Cameron,

 

If you look at the artwork on each pack on the website it shows the end doors, so you can see pressed of fabricated https://www.accurascale.com/collections/br-16t-mineral

 

Cheers!

 

Fran 

 

Sorry Fran,

 

You may have missed Paul's original comment regarding pack C, which has at least two wagons in it which, according to his photo gallery, should have pressed doors, yet the artwork shows fabricated doors. The only pressed doors I can see in the artworks on the website are for the Dia 1/109 riveted wagons.

 

Regards,

 

Cameron

[hmrspaul]

2 hours ago, BVMR21 said:

Price is right that's for certain, £22.50 per wagon really isn't too bad (seeing that most people will be buying with the 10% off multibuy offer), though here's a question, will these be the correct shade of grey?

As I remember the MDOs I have (currently stored) were a tad light compared to other mineral wagons in the collection.

What is the correct shade of grey? When do you mean? Freight stock grey was very light with a touch of blue. I'll agree the reproduction of the early build to be MDO by AC is a bit plain, a little less black and a little more blue might have worked, but then I wasn't there to see it. Where you?  But then there was the using of battleship grey and later a change of grey; but was that to lighter or darker - both to be seen on rebuilds of the 1970s in my photos. And of course, repaints all varied as BR in the 1950s and 60s  was still locally mixing paints and the weights of each ingredient were variable so the paint foreman had a lot of control over what they would look like. 

 

Unless brand new, just don't have two the same colour. Admittedly a MDO and years later, but look at how this three year old new body appears, compared to it less than 10 years later - and both photos the same side. https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/mdorebuiltrenumber/e25a6eac  https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/mdorebuiltrenumber/eaeed7b3 It is a shame the later one is b/w

 

Paul

[hmrspaul]

24 minutes ago, Accurascale Fran said:

 

Hi Cameron,

 

If you look at the artwork on each pack on the website it shows the end doors, so you can see pressed of fabricated https://www.accurascale.com/collections/br-16t-mineral

 

Cheers!

 

Fran 

Fran, sorry but the two in Pack C that appear to be based on photos on my site are welded bodies with pressed doors, and this doesn't show on the drawings. 100925 is brand new, so built that way https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/brmineralweld/e3c9c2154.   247055  https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/brmineralweld/e3cfe79f7

 

Paul

[turbos]

I need to get my finger out and finish these two vac braked Cambrian kits before they’re not worth the effort.

 

Brian.

[adb968008]

Its about time someone made a decent 16t mineral.

 

what a fantastic, if not inevitable at some point announcement.

[The Johnster]

My view is that discussions about the exact shade and hue of colours inevitable end up going down a rabbit hole, and coming back with different coloured rabbits...  I remember David Jenkinson writing back in the 70s or perhaps late 60s in MRC, having built a 'Coronation' and painted it in actual LMS crimson lake he'd got from Derby Works.  It looked wrong, much too bright, because the impression created on the eyes of an observer on a railway platform of a big locomotive a few feet away in natural daylight is different from that of a 4mm model viewed from a foot away in a lit room, even when the layout lighting is configured to represent natural daylight as closely as can be achieved. 

 

A viewer's perception of colour is influenced by several factors; the strength and cast of the sunlight, glare, postion of clouds relative to his/her viewpoints, and how quickly his/her eyesight has responded to ambient light level changes he/she is probably largely unaware of.  Further disruption is caused by changing backgrounds, such as (germaine to our situation) trains moving around and the exact quantitative quality of light reflecting from them.  And perhaps his/her current mood.

 

Also, don't forget that during the early 50s when the first orders of these wagons were being delivered, the nation was not fully emerged from the deprivations of post-war austerity and consistency in supplies of paint for lowly mineral wagons painted in a variety of workshops was too much to ask for; the official colour was established but in practice they each did the best they could with what they had, with some startling different results.  The quality of the paint was a bit wobbly as well, and it faded differently between shops and from batch to batch.

 

Adding in to the interpretation of the scene on a photograph will be the camera setting, film speed and possible decay in the camera, the printing process, and the quality and exact colour of the paper used as well as the difference between gloss, eggshell, semi-matt, and matt finishes.  Now then, let us suppose that this colour print, which may also have decayed and faded over time, is scanned into a computer via a scanner.  More alterations to the image occur, and then you have to view it on a monitor screen which also has it's own individual characteristics.  Then it is sent here through various modems, the internet, more modems. and viewed on the site; more modems and the internet again, and a different monitor

 

For modelling purposes, close enough for jazz is plenty good enough, and of course the model will be viewed mostly in indoor lighting which may affect it in all sorts of ways.  Unfitted steel minerals were painted grey most of the time, and fitted ones were 'bauxite', whatever that means; I would respectfully suggest that if the model looks to it's owner like his/her recollection of the prototype, or the impression he/she has gained from photographs during his/her research, and he/she is happy with it, that's the best you can hope for, quit while you're ahead!

 

I have yet to encounter a rendition of unlined crimson coach livery that looks anything like my memory of it, even on preserved vehicles where much effort has been put into it being correct.  I suspect it is my memory that is mostly at fault here, but on the layout memory trumps accuracy in getting it to 'look right' to me.  Manufacturers usually try the best they can to get it to 'look right', and some of my models are, to my view, spot on, but not the crimon liveries...

 

Rabbit hole.

[Wickham Green too]

2 hours ago, Dunsignalling said:

The Tad being equal to four-and-a-half Smidges..... 

... give or take a gnat's whisker !

[Islesy]

3 hours ago, stovepipe said:

I assume Pack H is supposed to be Pre-TOPS Coal 16?

Well, Pack H is based on photos taken in 1975, so technically it’s TOPS era!

[Captain Kernow]

A very welcome announcement indeed.

 

Although I really have enough 16 tonners from Bachmann, Parkside and Airfix, I will definitely get a few more, especially when the clasp brake variety makes an appearance - presumably a future batch?

 

Also, I can happily get on with the loco kit that I have decided to build, safe in the knowledge that AS won't be announcing it for another few weeks or months.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Or will they?..........

 

[Covkid]

Haven't  seen any comments yet about the 16 tonner with the sheet rail in the Accurascale announcement. 

 

How many were there and where did they operate ?  I have seen them on trains running down into Derby, presumably from Wirksworth or another  Peak quarry.  Also seen sheeted 16 tonners in the West Midlands too. 

[Islesy]

To those that have raised queries over artwork and Pressed/Fabricated end doors, by necessity, some artwork shows fabricated end doors, rather than pressed steel doors.

Its all to do with the way the 2D artwork is arranged, with multiple options being available for each ‘master’ build and so, to present a clear indication of the actual livery at this stage, rather than the build, certain layers have been suppressed, or overlay others.

Over the next few weeks, now that the extensive launch work has been done, we’ll look at each pack in detail and outline each wagon’s build, and what unique features they possess.

As ever, drop us a line at support if you have any pressing specific questions!

 

Best wishes,

Paul

[hmrspaul]

21 minutes ago, Covkid said:

Haven't  seen any comments yet about the 16 tonner with the sheet rail in the Accurascale announcement. 

 

How many were there and where did they operate ?  I have seen them on trains running down into Derby, presumably from Wirksworth or another  Peak quarry.  Also seen sheeted 16 tonners in the West Midlands too. 

There is mention of the ICI POO in the video. Not in these releases.   https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/icibulksoda

I've no idea if AC will use these photos, they have all been reproduced for Tower models by Dapol in 7mm but I've never seen them. 

 

Other sheeted minerals didn't usually have any support. 

 

Paul

 

 

[MarkSG]

When were these first introduced? What's the earliest they would have been reasonably widespread, and what's the most appropriate wagon pack for that time?

[hmrspaul]

11 minutes ago, MarkSG said:

When were these first introduced? What's the earliest they would have been reasonably widespread, and what's the most appropriate wagon pack for that time?

1950 onwards. Packs A B And C are the early writing style. All my photos have year of build on them. 

 

They do link to their own take on the history right at the beginning https://www.accurascale.com/blogs/news/the-beautiful-mundane-br-16-ton-mineral-family-next-for-our-powering-britain-range

 

Paul

Edited September 1, 2023 by hmrspaul

[Gremlin99]

Forgive my ignorance, but if I was looking for some that would make a rake of 9-12 wagons (I've not much space) that'd be representative of the current rake on the GCR, which packs would be most appropriate?

 

Seeing as I have the Bachmann model of 9F "92214"....

 

Thanks folks.