BR 16t Minerals, By Accurascale

[Captain Kernow]

1 hour ago, cctransuk said:

I have gathered more than enough Airfix, Parkside, Cambrian and Trix versions over the years - not to mention the dozens of hybrid kitbashes

I'd put myself in the same category, John, although I will probably get some of the new AS ones in preference to using some of my kits, provided they can be quickly and easily converted to P4 (which looks to be the case from the photos). I'm also pleased with the starting weight of the wagons being stated as 38g, not including loads. I believe AS are also doing loads for these, as they did for the 21 tonners and the hoppers and these also contribute to keeping a P4 wagon on the track, as I'm finding in my dotage that compensation or springing just isn't necessary, provided you've taken some care with the track.

 

[PeterStiles]

Righty. Factory weathering is all very well if you want your wagons to look identical. Pity we do t want our wagons to look identical ( the two 9Fs Bachmann have brought out, identically weathered are a prime example, no one would want those two to appear on the same layout)

 

So it's DIY time...

 

Get yourself a bottle of "Typhus Corrosion" and "Ryza Rust" from Games Workshop. Paint wagon with TC, and rub as much off as you want. Dry brush with RR to taste.

 

Practice on an airfix/Dapol kit.

 

I'm intending getting good at it, but in the meantime here's one I prepared earlier.

[Ruston]

I have plenty of 16-tonners, all customised in one way or another. Mainly Airfix with a few Bachmann, but they're all with either post-1964 markings or TOPS numbers.

 

These new Accurascale wagons will be ideal for the 1950s period on the new layout, where I won't have any comparison with the existing ones as the stock from the layouts will never need to mix. I'm going to need at least a dozen to form one train.

 

 

 

 

Instead of two NCB internal users with crosses on the sides, it would have been nice to have a Yorkshire pack, with the white bands on either side of the centre door, in both black and red liveries.

 

Did I hear @Islesy say ICI poo wagons in the video? What the..?

 

 

 

 

Edited September 2, 2023 by Ruston
To add another photo.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

1 hour ago, BMacdermott said:

These will be 'empties' on my layout.

Outside pitprop country, wagons in coal traffic must have spent 50% of their running time empty. My first Accurascale coal wagons of the 21T and 24T species go about with their suitably filthed detailed interiors on view, and the 16T types will be treated likewise.

[Dunsignalling]

13 minutes ago, PeterStiles said:

Righty. Factory weathering is all very well if you want your wagons to look identical. Pity we do t want our wagons to look identical ( the two 9Fs Bachmann have brought out, identically weathered are a prime example, no one would want those two to appear on the same layout)

 

So it's DIY time...

 

Get yourself a bottle of "Typhus Corrosion" and "Ryza Rust" from Games Workshop. Paint wagon with TC, and rub as much off as you want. Dry brush with RR to taste.

 

Practice on an airfix/Dapol kit.

 

I'm intending getting good at it, but in the meantime here's one I prepared earlier.

 

 

So long as you avoided buying multiples of the same catalogue numbers, the Bachmann 16-tonners all have different weathering applied. They seem to have created a new mask for each run.

 

John 

Edited September 2, 2023 by Dunsignalling

[MJI]

Bachmann vb examples no tie bars.

 

Accurascale may be the first proper models we get of vb minerals

[Enterprisingwestern]

11 minutes ago, MJI said:

Bachmann vb examples no tie bars.

 

Accurascale may be the first proper models we get of vb minerals

 

Bachmann have a thing against tie bars on vac fitted stock generally!

 

Mike.

[Bernard Lamb]

Nasty, tiny things that no proper railway would tolerate.

I will stick with 20t plus hoppers with proper bottom doors.

They are far more efficient and much better to use on coal drops.😀

Bernard

[Covkid]

3 hours ago, PeterStiles said:

Righty. Factory weathering is all very well if you want your wagons to look identical. Pity we do t want our wagons to look identical ( the two 9Fs Bachmann have brought out, identically weathered are a prime example, no one would want those two to appear on the same layout)

 

So it's DIY time...

 

Get yourself a bottle of "Typhus Corrosion" and "Ryza Rust" from Games Workshop. Paint wagon with TC, and rub as much off as you want. Dry brush with RR to taste.

 

Practice on an airfix/Dapol kit.

 

I'm intending getting good at it, but in the meantime here's one I prepared earlier.

At the very minimum, owners of Bachmann weathered 16 tonners should own a few little tools, some T cut and some fine grit sandpaper. 

I actually bought two weathered ones much against my normal shop. They now look very unlike each other.  Just experiment, and just a bit of fine grit sandpaper tones the factory applied weathering down considerably. 

[br2975]

8 hours ago, Downer said:

Is there a 16t expert out there who could list the diagram numbers of the variations that Bachmann have produced?

.

Widely regarded as the most authoritative and instructive resource so far produced on the subject of the steel mineral wagon.

.

The information therein begins with 1930s Private Owner designs, and moves through the pre-nationalisation companies, including the MoT etc and onto the BR built wagons, and their modifications and rebodying.

.

The author's article blows some assumptions posted hereabouts out of the water.

 

"The 16-Ton Steel Mineral Wagon" - a three part article by Peter Fidcuk that appeared in Modellers Backtrack magazine some years ago.

.

Anyone with the slightest interest in Britain's most common railway wagon should seek these magazines out.

.

These are the three issues ...............

.

 

Edited September 2, 2023 by br2975

[Peter Eaton]

On 01/09/2023 at 11:47, Porcy Mane said:

 

 

Some remained comparatively "square" such a  these in 1967.

 

 

 

Js that a new model loco ready to uncover later ?

 

[The Johnster]

6 hours ago, Downer said:

Paradoxically, I’ll be more likely to buy some if the improvement on the Bachmann wagons is only slight, because there’s no way I can afford to replace all of my current 30-wagon rake.

 

A good summary of my own dilemma.  I'm in a better position than you, though, as I only have a dozen Baccy wagons to replace with these.  Current plan is to order one set, as I actually have enough minerals to work the service, but it would be nice to have a few surplus to ring changes and possibly include one or two in the pickup occasionally for delivery to factories; household coal is dealt with by landsale at the colliery, supplied by the slack bin and moved around the site in an internal user wagon, and does not feature in general goods working. 

 

In a place like Cwmdimbath, with almost every family having somebody working at the pi and a general but strong small s socialist culture in those days, 'concession' landsale coal would have found it's way on to everybody's fires even if they weren't connected with the industry directly.  No pickings for coal merchants here!

[The Johnster]

Ok, you got me, I bit.  Just ordered pack C.  Any chance of substituting one of the wagons with a livery-appropriate 1/109 for variety?  Probably not, if they are supplied pre-packed, but it's worth asking...

[Hal Nail]

27 minutes ago, The Johnster said:

Ok, you got me, I bit.  Just ordered pack C.  Any chance of substituting one of the wagons with a livery-appropriate 1/109 for variety?  Probably not, if they are supplied pre-packed, but it's worth asking...

people could arrange swaps on here since you won't be the only one wanting a mix.

[The Johnster]

8 minutes ago, Hal Nail said:

people could arrange swaps on here since you won't be the only one wanting a mix.

Good idea, I’ll post nearer the time.  

[Dunsignalling]

1 hour ago, The Johnster said:

Ok, you got me, I bit.  Just ordered pack C.  Any chance of substituting one of the wagons with a livery-appropriate 1/109 for variety?  Probably not, if they are supplied pre-packed, but it's worth asking...

 

There seems to be a mixed pack listed for the SR Banana vans, and the box liner for the Minerals should take both types, so there's no reason in principle to preclude a mixed 108/109 pack. 

 

[The Johnster]

Except that if matters are so far progressed with the Chinese as to have already organised this, it might be more trouble than it's worth to upset the immaculate machine...  It's not the end of the world if it can't be done, I've a couple of Baccy pressed steel door wagons, but I thought it would be nice to mix & match a bit.  One of the reasons I like mineral rakes is that the apparent uniformity is anything but, and closer inspection is the more satisfying for it!  Variety of diagrams and liveries is the watchword for early 50s modelling, and I also like the idea of one, only one, fresh-from-the-paint-shop bright and shiny new wagon in a 60-wagon rake of filth.

 

Let's face it, I'm a disruptive influence, I hate uniformity.  Bob Griffiths, my old headmaster, told me 'you'll never get anywhere with that attitude, Richards, and he was dead right, I never did...

[keysan]

On 01/09/2023 at 12:54, Islesy said:

All in good time @norfolkchinaclay - patience is the key, as we do have to pace ourselves 😆

I am half through this thread and its answered a lot of question in my head. Excellent information from @Station Master.  The word "We have to pace ourselves". Me made sit back and actually think for 10 minutes your first multiple unit is going to a pacer" 

[Dunsignalling]

5 hours ago, The Johnster said:

Except that if matters are so far progressed with the Chinese as to have already organised this, it might be more trouble than it's worth to upset the immaculate machine...  It's not the end of the world if it can't be done, I've a couple of Baccy pressed steel door wagons, but I thought it would be nice to mix & match a bit.  One of the reasons I like mineral rakes is that the apparent uniformity is anything but, and closer inspection is the more satisfying for it!  Variety of diagrams and liveries is the watchword for early 50s modelling, and I also like the idea of one, only one, fresh-from-the-paint-shop bright and shiny new wagon in a 60-wagon rake of filth.

 

Let's face it, I'm a disruptive influence, I hate uniformity.  Bob Griffiths, my old headmaster, told me 'you'll never get anywhere with that attitude, Richards, and he was dead right, I never did...

 

Mind you, in purely numerical terms, by about 1955, a typical layout mix should include six or seven Diagram 1/108s (though those weren't entirely uniform anyway) for every one 16-tonner of any other design.

 

In any case, some older ones had got pretty dog-eared by then, with different levels of corrosion and varied repair patterns offering plenty of scope for "real modelling" on a relatively unvaried r-t-r or kit base.... 

 

Beyond the initial outlay there'll be loads of potential (and economical) enjoyment to be had from transforming a bland rake of out-of-the-box models, wagon-by-wagon into a characterful train entirely personal to oneself. All leavened with a smattering of ex-PO timber-built wagons, of course...

 

Just don't flog off your entire stash of kits or bin those half-knackered / dimensionally dodgy older models that are easier to replace than rectify. Keep some of them to practise on...

 

John

[The Johnster]

Haven’t got any, John.  I eliminated any with incorrect wheelbases about forty years ago, and the last of my Airfix kits only survived as a posed-half-unloaded-with-the-door-open-on-a-siding model before being damaged beyond repair in a house move. The old Airfix kit was the best in town for many years, but the moulded strapping and door frames are a bit ‘blobby’ and poorly defined by modern standards; can’t be doing with them.  I have a couple of Parksides, made up, though; but no stash of unmade wagons and no dimensionally dodgys. 
 

I’ve eliminated older wagons of any sort with  brakes out of line with the wheels (I mean, come on, Airfix kits sorted that out sixty years ago) or moulded handbrake levers (again, see early 60s Airfix) as well. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Dunsignalling]

3 hours ago, The Johnster said:

Haven’t got any, John.  I eliminated any with incorrect wheelbases about forty years ago, and the last of my Airfix kits only survived as a posed-half-unloaded-with-the-door-open-on-a-siding model before being damaged beyond repair in a house move. The old Airfix kit was the best in town for many years, but the moulded strapping and door frames are a bit ‘blobby’ and poorly defined by modern standards; can’t be doing with them.  I have a couple of Parksides, made up, though; but no stash of unmade wagons and no dimensionally dodgys. 
 

I’ve eliminated older wagons of any sort with  brakes out of line with the wheels (I mean, come on, Airfix kits sorted that out sixty years ago) or moulded handbrake levers (again, see early 60s Airfix) as well. 

 

 

 

 

 

Me too, but I regularly find some of my earlier kit-built efforts wanting or in need of repair, and these will be duly "picked on".

 

Alternatively, suitable fodder can be acquired at swap-meets, for a couple of quid a throw, to work up the consistency of aptitude necessary to start on new twenty-five quid masterpieces.... 

[MarkSG]

20 hours ago, The Johnster said:

Ok, you got me, I bit.  Just ordered pack C.  Any chance of substituting one of the wagons with a livery-appropriate 1/109 for variety?  Probably not, if they are supplied pre-packed, but it's worth asking...

 

I entirely agree. My current layout is only a shunting plank, so I'm not going to need a full rake of them - a single pack of three is likely to be all I'll ever need. Given their real life numbers, that means I ought to buy a pack of 1/108s. But I actually prefer the 1/109s - the rivetted look is just more appealing! So a mixed pack of two 1/108s and one 1/109 would be ideal.

[Halvarras]

On 01/09/2023 at 15:27, The Stationmaster said:

As an occasional visitor to Carnforth around that time it was indeed both shint and in that 'orrible redpaint (whic was e rather offensive in the eye to those of us used to seeing them in either black or green lined liveries. 

 

How about scrap metal and sugar beet loads - both of which were common loads for them by the 1970s (if not earlier)?  

 

And , getting very parochial, hialcan we look forwad to the ingot mould conversions one day?

 

And turnips! 

No need to cover these or load them onto the 3A97 Up Perishables, darn things were almost indestructible!

(Not a turnip fan, as you can probably tell........😝!)

 

D6339 shunts Truro Yard during the latter's ongoing remodelling on 1st October 1971 (reopened 7th November) - Truro West signalbox top left must have been just days awayfrom demolition. Two days later there was a mass hydraulic cull which claimed all remaining Class 43 Warships and most surviving Class 22s but D6339 made it through to the end on 1st January 1972.

Call out to @caradoc, that's your namesake in the background waiting to head west with a mixed freight 😃

[Phil Bullock]

Turnips by the wagonload? Best not tell baldrick!

[MoonM]

Anyone able to offer insight on how typical it was to see 16t (and also 21t) mineral wagons with other freight rolling stock such as vans and tankers? Keen to build a mixed rake but struggling to find colour images of the 50/60s of what was typical. 

I also understand you typically don't mix grey with bauxite (ie with vacuum brakes and without), but would it be the grey or bauxite mineral wagons that would mix with tankers and vans of the era? 

Thanks