Bachmann Europe - Winter 2023 Announcements

[97406]

9 minutes ago, BachelorBoy said:

 

Some companies used a marketing technique called "skim pricing" to maximise profit. The idea is that some people "just gotta have it" and aren't particularly sensitive to how much they need to pay. So the company makes a lot of profit from them. 

 

Later, once all the price-insensitive customers are sated, then the company drops the price so "normal" people with smaller budgets can afford them. Obviously the profit falls. But the company makes more profit than it would have done if it had sold the item at the "normal" price at launch

 

 

 

 

I get that impression here. I would struggle to hold back with a retooled 40 to be fair.

[TomScrut]

9 minutes ago, BachelorBoy said:

 

Some companies used a marketing technique called "skim pricing" to maximise profit. The idea is that some people "just gotta have it" and aren't particularly sensitive to how much they need to pay. So the company makes a lot of profit from them. 

 

Later, once all the price-insensitive customers are sated, then the company drops the price so "normal" people with smaller budgets can afford them. Obviously the profit falls. But the company makes more profit than it would have done if it had sold the item at the "normal" price at launch

 

I think that is the way Hornby might have gone to honest, plenty of stuff of theirs available at discount from shops but not discounted when it first comes out. I expect the issue with that strategy is that it means holding stock for a while as shops won't be keen on buying loads of stock at top dollar to be stuck with it when the manufacturer discounts it. Depends how important cash turnaround is perhaps.

[No Decorum]

56 minutes ago, TomScrut said:

 

I think that is the way Hornby might have gone to honest, plenty of stuff of theirs available at discount from shops but not discounted when it first comes out. I expect the issue with that strategy is that it means holding stock for a while as shops won't be keen on buying loads of stock at top dollar to be stuck with it when the manufacturer discounts it. Depends how important cash turnaround is perhaps.

Hm. I ordered a Turbomotive as soon as it was announced, in the full knowledge that it might be discounted further. I just didn’t want to risk missing it. I ordered my one and only P2 from the current batch rather later. I’ll perhaps have another P2 when the price drops unless something else, such as the Class 70s, soak up the available budget. The plastic motion of Prince of Wales makes me hesitate as does the lack of a prominent bulge over the cylinders of the streamlined versions, coupled with the high price. On the other hand, I’ll have two of the 70s. I’d like to say that it’s because of the reasonable price but it isn’t. Possibly, just possibly, the price might lead to a third.

 

It’s a curious thing, the Turbomotive. It is a superb model but the lighting is a mess. The solution is to leave it switched off and to remove the rear lamp, which is a bit of a waste of what must have been an expensive add on but at least I end up with a decent model. Hornby, and not only Hornby, seems to be going for broke. Introduce ever more features at ever higher cost. I’m all for that but at the high price, the product has to be right and free of niggles.

[E100]

There's some really nice models announced there. It's really good to see them rounding out the range of Thompsons and Class 20's. The 37 looks superb for Thornaby based modellers, though it will be a very expensive month for them. I don't understand the rational behind this as surely it will become a choice between the Class 20 and the Class 37 for a number of less well off modellers or they go for both DCC ready, whereas if released in different quarters they may well have gone for sound fitted on both. Just my 2p on it.

 

The CC1/CC2 are an extremely competitive price point £150/£160 for a brand new loco, especially one so niche from Bachmann / EFE. 

 

All in all felt like quite a decent announcement with something for most. Another quarter without 2fs is surprising though.

[TomScrut]

26 minutes ago, No Decorum said:

I ordered a Turbomotive as soon as it was announced, in the full knowledge that it might be discounted further

 

Yes I have done similar with Hornby items I definitely want. But there seems to be a lot of stuff that also hangs around and then ends up discounted. Some stuff sells out more or less immediately, although less so than 2-3 years ago.

[newbryford]

6 hours ago, Covkid said:

 

 

I moved to Bescot in 1980 and remember our target 16 and target 17 being diagrammed single class 20s.  These were engineers trips for moving traffic around the Birmingham area.    I may be wrong but I think T16 was an S&T departmental trip based around Wolverhampton Crane St.

 

 

 

 

I think the discussion about single 20s has been distracted slightly from the non-working Wipac lights on the model 20/3.

 

They were not often used in single or nose first - but it is not unknown. 

flickr pic - click for details.

 

I suppose this could be considered as single use, but there is another at the back.

 

Edited November 2, 2023 by newbryford

[Albie the plumber]

Stickswipe on ebay makes lighting units for the class 20 and very good they are too ! 

[The Stationmaster]

12 hours ago, Phil Bullock said:

And single 20s not unknown in the West Midlands either…. The Stourport PS job was usually a 25 but 20s not unknown …. 50% of the mileage must have been bonnet first! 

I love this sort of stuff as  can remember when they were banned from working nose end first - due to a nasty SPAD by one working an excursion to somewhere on the Southern.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

5 hours ago, E100 said:

It's really good to see them rounding out expanding the range of Thompsons

FTFY! Gotta think positive, catering vehicles, sleepers...

21 hours ago, AY Mod said:

Virtually everyone has more locos than needed for the stock they have.

The problem I perceive with today's pricing is that it 'pushes' traction purchases over bogie rolling stock in particular. Nice shiny new engine, or a couple of carriages or bogie wagons?

[davidw]

11 minutes ago, 34theletterbetweenB&D said:

FTFY! Gotta think positive, catering vehicles, sleepers...

The problem I perceive with today's pricing is that it 'pushes' traction purchases over bogie rolling stock in particular. Nice shiny new engine, or a couple of carriages or bogie wagons?

Absolutely, catering vehicles for all regions is a huge hole. My interest is ECML, there are many varied and interesting catering prototypes with "wow" factor. Articulated and single items like the Thompson RF, or RK. A surprising continued omission. I'm not as familiar with other regions but I'm sure that they are equally deprived.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

1 minute ago, davidw said:

...catering vehicles for all regions is a huge hole...

Hornby are making most of the running for grouping era stock, starting with the relatively exotic 'dine at seat' Pullmans, and a Gresley buffet;  early introductions soon after the move to China; then every Pullman type you can shake a stick at in steady progression, Maunsell Restaurant car, Coronation Scot stock which includes dedicated Kitchen vehicles, and the Coronation with its catering twins announced. Clearly room for much more.

 

It's way better for BR and what followed, Bachmann have mk1 catering reasonably well handled and also managed the BP,  Hornby's  unit 125 and 225 trains are 'automatically' catering equipped as must be the Eurostar and Ambiguous Pazuma sets.

 

Anyone more knowledgeable please fill in what I have missed.

[Southernman46]

21 hours ago, Yo said:

Do I spy a polybulk in the cabinet at the start of the video? Don't recall that being announced. 

Yes that section of the cabinet seems to be a display of ye olde Bachmann releases - Midland Pullman, Polybulk, LMS 10000, Prototype Deltic, 38-502 BIS Covhop, 38-271 Blue O presflo, 

[MidlandRed]

On 02/11/2023 at 06:34, Phil Bullock said:

D8035-39 IIRC from series 1. D8138 tried to mate with D7038 at Hartlebury …video here

 

D8138/D7038 smash

 

York also used their D83xx singly particularly on Foss Island branch trips. 

Interesting clip. 

 

For clarity, Bescot’s class 20s appeared in summer 1966 and disappeared (to Nottingham Division), some in 1968, some in 1969. The locos involved were D8035,6 and D8040-44 (ex London Division - D01) and D8134-43 (new). 
 

The traditional double heading of these locos with the cabs at outer ends on the LMR really commenced with the allocation of D8144-99 new at Toton (although even from there I seem to recall some trips running with single locos). I wouldn’t like to say Bescot’s were used only singly but given the steam work they replaced, it was certainly commonplace to see them running singly on freight. 
 

This period was, of course when diesels had proper numbers (not TOPS) and proper headcodes (1966-69 to be precise). Seeing the new model of D8133 (thus definitely on topic, although not related to the models of later era class 20s), I immediately thought this would be a good candidate for renumbering for me, to replicate a Bescot loco (which did get into the northern reaches of the then God’s Wonderful (Region..) in that era, as evidenced by the film of the accident at Hartlebury posted by @Phil Bullock

Edited November 3, 2023 by MidlandRed
Added D8035/6

[MidlandRed]

9 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

I love this sort of stuff as  can remember when they were banned from working nose end first - due to a nasty SPAD by one working an excursion to somewhere on the Southern.

What era was this @The Stationmaster? I’m afraid I’m stuck in 1966-70 transition era rather than anything else (or even Wipac headlights…)! And was this a nationwide ban on nose end working? 

[Lambton58]

On 01/11/2023 at 18:17, AY Mod said:

 

Virtually everyone has more locos than needed for the stock they have.

Guilty m'lud, I'm an habitual offender!!  

That said, there's a lot of nice stuff in there though I particularly like the look of the Ashover carriages.  Likewise the Thompson full brakes.

 

Ralph

[Phil Bullock]

For anyone looking for an interesting nose first working to model … how about D8036 on a train with a transformer at Blaenau Ffestiniog in 1961…

 

D8036 Blaenau Ffestiniog

Edited November 2, 2023 by Phil Bullock
Factual

[Covkid]

5 hours ago, MidlandRed said:

Interesting clip. 

 

For clarity, Bescot’s class 20s appeared in summer 1966 and disappeared (to Nottingham Division), some in 1968, some in 1969. The locos involved were D8035,6 and D8040-44 (ex London Division - D01) and D8134-43 (new). 
 

The traditional double heading of these locos with the cabs at outer ends on the LMR really commenced with the allocation of D8144-99 new at Toton (although even from there I seem to recall some trips running with single locos). I wouldn’t like to say Bescot’s were used only singly but given the steam work they replaced, it was certainly commonplace to see them running singly on freight. 
 

This period was, of course when diesels had proper numbers (not TOPS) and proper headcodes (1966-69 to be precise). Seeing the new model of D8133 (thus definitely on topic, although not related to the models of later era class 20s), I immediately thought this would be a good candidate for renumbering for me, to replicate a Bescot loco (which did get into the northern reaches of God’s Wonderful in that era, as evidenced by the film of the accident at Hartlebury posted by @Phil Bullock

 

Just leafed through Mike Hollick's book "Changing engines" and he has a photo of D8043 at Crane Street junction Wolverhampton, on a train of bogie bolsters on 14th April 1966 working T33.  Also D8137 in the up yard at Bescot displaying 8T34. On this date (23rd August 1968) it was a local trip to Aston Goods.

[Phil Bullock]

4 hours ago, Covkid said:

 

Just leafed through Mike Hollick's book "Changing engines" and he has a photo of D8043 at Crane Street junction Wolverhampton, on a train of bogie bolsters on 14th April 1966 working T33.  Also D8137 in the up yard at Bescot displaying 8T34. On this date (23rd August 1968) it was a local trip to Aston Goods.

BRdatabase lists D8035/6 as Bescot locos in addition to the D8040-44 batch . Am sure I remember D8038 being around too …. Always thought it significant that Bescot had D8038 and D8138 …. 
 

Happy days! 

[The Stationmaster]

14 hours ago, MidlandRed said:

What era was this @The Stationmaster? I’m afraid I’m stuck in 1966-70 transition era rather than anything else (or even Wipac headlights…)! And was this a nationwide ban on nose end working? 

Definitely in the '60s and I can remember seeing the item in a Notice.  It certainly seems to have been forgotten in later years and I increasingly wonder to what extent people took due notice of it at the time in view of the comments in this thread.  Was it only only applied by certain Regions I wonder?   (The SPAD that sparked was on the SR?

[Southernman46]

Hmm that green weathered 20 does look good.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

On 02/11/2023 at 09:50, newbryford said:

I think the discussion about single 20s has been distracted slightly from the non-working Wipac lights on the model 20/3.

 

They were not often used in single or nose first - but it is not unknown.

This is a symptom of what I think of as 'TOPSivision'. What was typical by the time TOPS came in is no accurate guide to earlier practise.

 

The EE type 1 was used singly with great regularity from introduction in 1957. Even when worked in multiple (and this applies equally to the BTH and NBL type 1s) no orientation efforts to have the cab ends outward were obvious. So with a BR green one - especially without any yellow paint - any way round, as you like it. 

[andyman7]

On 02/11/2023 at 09:43, TomScrut said:

 

Yes I have done similar with Hornby items I definitely want. But there seems to be a lot of stuff that also hangs around and then ends up discounted. Some stuff sells out more or less immediately, although less so than 2-3 years ago.

Even that goes in waves. Stock sells out, dealers and customers clamour for more so production quantities are tweaked up. Then, because the new batches don't sell straight out people get complacent, the next orders are not so big, and people are caught out when they disappear quickly.
The rule of thumb is if you really want it, buy or pre-order when it comes out. If it's in the 'nice, but not sure' category, waiting can deliver a bargain and if it doesn't, well there's always something else.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

9 minutes ago, andyman7 said:

...The rule of thumb is if you really want it, buy or pre-order when it comes out. If it's in the 'nice, but not sure' category, waiting can deliver a bargain and if it doesn't, well there's always something else.

In my experience waiting always delivers: there's a large crowd of 'Gottahavethelatests' with the attention span of a butterfly. If they can keep the brands in profit by paying full whack I offer my full support.

[Dunsignalling]

1 hour ago, 34theletterbetweenB&D said:

This is a symptom of what I think of as 'TOPSivision'. What was typical by the time TOPS came in is no accurate guide to earlier practise.

 

The EE type 1 was used singly with great regularity from introduction in 1957. Even when worked in multiple (and this applies equally to the BTH and NBL type 1s) no orientation efforts to have the cab ends outward were obvious. So with a BR green one - especially without any yellow paint - any way round, as you like it. 

Which was all perfectly logical in the early years of the locos.

 

The forward vision from a Class 20 being worked bonnet first was no worse than from most of the medium/large steam locomotives still in service at the time. Track circuits hadn't yet been rejigged with cab-leading diesels in mind and it was only necessary to ensure the cab didn't pass signals at danger.

 

John 

[Yo]

20 hours ago, Southernman46 said:

Yes that section of the cabinet seems to be a display of ye olde Bachmann releases - Midland Pullman, Polybulk, LMS 10000, Prototype Deltic, 38-502 BIS Covhop, 38-271 Blue O presflo, 

I'm not familiar with those other models,  I'd assumed they were all new/future releases. I was hoping for some new polybulks off the back of Rails ones.