I like/dislike foreign layouts - discuss

[Re6/6]

On 11/02/2024 at 10:21, YT-1300 said:

Some exhibition goers can be very blinkered.  

...and extremely rude and ignorant.

[Justin72]

I find that I can enjoy the non-British exhibits to a degree and I will certainly take time to look at them. I recently went to see a big layout in Norway and that was a lot of fun. There is normally something that can inspire you or to learn from so from that perspective it is nice to see a variety of things. However, I tend to gravitate to the era I enjoy most which is related to my childhood. 70/80s and these type of layouts will naturally get more of my attention. 

[bbishop]

4 hours ago, whart57 said:

 

A very good layout I saw a few years ago was an British outline one built by modellers in the Netherlands. Though I did think it was a little unambitious of them to choose the Great Eastern in the flattest part of the country ........

....... but that is where the owner was born!  He just happens to live in The Netherlands.

[whart57]

3 hours ago, Talltim said:

What about models of railways in places that never had them, or places that never actually existed?

 

Well back in the day of the ubiquitous Great Western BLT there can't have been a cove or hamlet in Cornwall or Devon that wasn't blessed with a railway branchline it didn't have. That's not what you mean, surely?

 

I considered a number of imaginary railways, hard core freelance if you like, ranging from reconfiguring the North Kent coast, to re-running late medieval history (an independent Gelderland with its own railway system linking Holland, Germany and Belgium) or even making up an independent nation. Then I discovered Thailand's railways and that was foreign enough.

[D9020 Nimbus]

Ruritania has featured in a model at least once, as has Tolkien's The Shire.

[2E Sub Shed]

48 minutes ago, D9020 Nimbus said:

Ruritania has featured in a model at least once, as has Tolkien's The Shire.

Even C.J.Frezzer produced a layout plan for a location he called Ruritania

[Steamport Southport]

2 hours ago, D9020 Nimbus said:

Ruritania has featured in a model at least once, as has Tolkien's The Shire.

 

Mid 1970s Model Railway Constructor ISTR.

 

 

Jason

[Neils WRX]

Really interesting thread, I like something different when I’m at an exhibition. Hence why I helped out with the Chinese layout in Glasgow despite never been to China myself.

 

Being based in Scotland every other exhibition layout feels like it features a blue / large logo 37. The layouts are all great by the way.
 

My something different is a Belgian depot and a Czech through station.

 

I have had “oh it’s foreign “ several times, but I’ve also had loads of great chats with people that understand the prototype or can relate to it in some way.

On the Belgian layout I often leave a 66 stabled as everybody has seen one of those but in different colours so people can relate to it.

 

Thanks,

 

Neil

[Dagworth]

23 minutes ago, Neils WRX said:

I have had “oh it’s foreign “ several times

Thirty years ago the comment was "oh, Diesels" and off they'd go looking for the next GWR branch line terminus. We seem to have moved on from that (mostly) so hopefully non-UK prototypes will become more accepted over time.

 

Andi

[MJI]

I find unaltered RTR boring, I will check over any layout I can get near.

 

No trains moving, will not hang about unless exceptional.

 

Can't get near, will skip.

 

Depot layouts, will look at for 2 min or so.

 

Chatty people will stay and chat.

[MarcD]

There are a lot of people who are ill informed about railways that don't look like a Hornby train set. I took my Pre-Grouping o gauge micro layout to two exhibitions in the last few months and I had people with rucksacks barging onto it so they could look at the modern image trainset next door, people cocking a snook as they walked by to get to the same layout. But I have also had a lot of people stick around to watch the full shunting sequence, which can be up to 20min. 

As my gran would say there's not so funny as folk. 

I did go to a large single scale show last year and every layout was running the same stock on similar layouts. They weren't badly modelled but after the 3rd one they all merged into one. If you got to an art gallery and you are faced with 15 copies of the Mona Lisa you wouldn't stay long. There has to be something for everyone and even if you don't like or have any knowledge of the subject there is usually something that can spark an idea to be used elsewhere.

Marc

[ianathompson]

As the thread title doesn't specifically refer to exhibition models I feel entitled to reply!

For clarification I rarely attend exhibitions as Saturdays are for football (either code) or cricket and Sunday is for church music.

 

Whether you like or dislike foreign layouts is a personal preference.

I would expect that most people lie between the two extremes of loving them or hating them.

The OP was doubtlesly aware of this when he posted and expected to initiate a vigorous debate!

 

Like most modellers I have numerous railway interests rather than one specific theme to the exclusion of all others.

I currently have a couple of British layouts on the go as well as my main layout, the AFK.

 

The AFK will undoubtedly be viewed as heretical by most BRM modellers as it is narrow gauge, entirely freelanced and exists in an imaginary country.

The railway system also connects with Narnia and Ruritania.

That probably means turn away now. RIGHT NOW!

 

I have no intention of exhibiting my handiwork so the only unpleasant comments that I receive will be via this or one other website.

My chosen scenario enables me to cherry pick locomotives and stock that I like.

I also modify various protoypical influences to create freelanced equipment.

As in everything beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

 

Blending these models into a credible pastiche requires some forethought and analysis.

Whether I have been successful in this endeavour is open to deabte.

I have certainly had fun along the way in trying to achieve this.

 

Surely this is what model railways, a recreational relaxation, are about, rather than disparaging other people's interests?

 

Ian T

[newbryford]

On 13/02/2024 at 14:05, Re6/6 said:

...and extremely rude and ignorant.

 

It doesn't just take the "wrong type of layout" to bring out those attributes in some (thankfully very few) exhibition attendees

[jjb1970]

Two points I'd offer are that it doesn't really matter if nobody shares our preferences, and that in terms of an audience my own view is that quality is better than quantity.

 

I know some of my own interests are very niche for UK modellers (though ironically this thread was started by a person with a most excellent Chinese exhibition layout) but I really don't think it would matter if I was the only one. One of the fundamental ingredients for finding enjoyment and satisfaction in a hobby is to do it for your own reasons and to find your own interests. This isn't a model train thing, it applies to any hobby or interest (noting it is slightly different if it is a professional activity). If you do that then the tribalism and less commendable behaviours we see in any hobby or interest tend to wash away, if anything it makes life more pleasant if there is none of that behaviour around your interest.

 

And on audience, I'm not a model railway exhibitor but I do speak at events regularly and I am not just being contrarian when I say I would much rather speak to ten people in an almost empty room who are genuinely interested in what I am saying and who might take something from it then several hundred people there to get CPD certificates or because it's expected of them to attend seminars, workshop events, lectures etc.

[DavidB-AU]

On 14/02/2024 at 03:32, 2E Sub Shed said:

Even C.J.Frezzer produced a layout plan for a location he called Ruritania

 

He produced a couple of plans based on European prototypes. One of the Swiss alpine designs was in one of the plan books.

 

On 14/02/2024 at 08:21, Dagworth said:

Thirty years ago the comment was "oh, Diesels" and off they'd go looking for the next GWR branch line terminus. 

 

There were endless letters in RM in the 80s questioning the sanity of anybody who would want to model "modern image", even going as far as ridiculing Ian Futers modelling P4 that wasn't pre-grouping. I also remember one letter confidently predicting that nobody would ever want to preserve a main line diesel.

 

I've attended exhibitions in 5 countries on 3 continents and there are always elements of "I don't like this therefore it should never be exhibited". Thankfully they are a minority. 

 

Personally I enjoy seeing any high quality layout of any prototype in any scale. I never take the view of not being interested in a particular layout because I don't know anything about the prototype. That's an opportunity to talk to the layout builder(s) and find out! 

[MichaelE]

I like just about anything from the West. I don't get much of a chance to see railroads from the UK or Europe around here. Many US railroaders think they are the only railroaders on the planet.

 

One area that I have no railroading interest in is the Far East. Not that I would see any around here, but I see plenty of ads for You Tube videos for Far East railroads. 

[F-UnitMad]

5 hours ago, MichaelE said:

Many US railroaders think they are the only railroaders on the planet.

The 'niche' wihin that 'niche' is 3-rail O Gaugers, who view 2-rail as witchcraft, always ready to self-destruct in a blaze of short circuits, and how do you wire a balloon track (return loop in English) with 2-rail, etc etc.

You'd think HO & N, and even 2-rail O Scale, have never existed..... 🙄🙄🤦‍♂️😂😂

 

A few years ago in a Kalmbach "Great Model Railroads" issue there was an American guy with a OO British layout. Despite claiming to have a 'British railways Guru' on hand for advice, he'd made a few fundamental mistakes, one of which was wrong line running. It did make me wonder if we in Britain who model, say, US outline make similar gaffes that would stick out a mile to those who know the prototype. I think the biggest challenge for US outline is getting the sense of space, as that takes up real space, which in the UK we tend to be short of. 🤦‍♂️

[DavidB-AU]

42 minutes ago, F-UnitMad said:

The 'niche' wihin that 'niche' is 3-rail O Gaugers, who view 2-rail as witchcraft, always ready to self-destruct in a blaze of short circuits, and how do you wire a balloon track (return loop in English) with 2-rail, etc etc.

You'd think HO & N, and even 2-rail O Scale, have never existed..... 🙄🙄🤦‍♂️😂😂

I remember an American telling me about 20 years ago that 2-rail O was dead and the rest of the world should catch up.

[PaulRhB]

7 hours ago, jjb1970 said:

points I'd offer are that it doesn't really matter if nobody shares our preferences

The fact it’s at a show proves at least you and the show manager like it 😉

[Hibelroad]

Guilty as charged, I do have very little interest in continental layouts because I cannot relate to them. But I also have a very narrow field of interest when it comes to layouts and often would only take an interest in one or two layout at a show (probably something smallish and industrial). When I was a regular show visitor I would spend most of my time at trade stands. I think it takes all sorts so a good mix of scales and styles of layouts is likely to be the most interesting show. 

[TEAMYAKIMA]

7 hours ago, DavidB-AU said:

Personally I enjoy seeing any high quality layout of any prototype in any scale. I never take the view of not being interested in a particular layout because I don't know anything about the prototype. That's an opportunity to talk to the layout builder(s) and find out! 

 

As the originator of this thread, I couldn't agree more! 

[westernviscount]

10 hours ago, MarcD said:

I had people with rucksacks barging onto it so they could look at the modern image trainset next door, people cocking a snook as they walked by to get to the same layout.

I had virtually the same experience a couple of years ago. My layout is small but not pre- grouping however. I understand it is not to everyone's taste and confess that I enjoy appealing to a particular kind of modeller. However, I do not enjoy my efforts being treated with contempt. 

I feel for those who modelling foreign layouts as I can well imagine they are seen as fair game for ignorant comments. 

I remember one incident where a lady glanced at my layout and said fairly loudly "oh, there isn't much to this one." I offered her an apology in the hope of at least embarrassing her a little...I doubt it had the desired effect. 

 

[bbishop]

About 15 years ago my O Gauge British exhibition layout was running out of invites.  So the question was "what to do next?"  At the time Lenz were developing their Spur Null products and I had visited the Dampfbahn Fränkische Schweiz preserved railway.  I decided to build an O gauge model of a Franconian branch line terminus. 

Historically there has been very little scratch or kit building on the continent, so I was committed to RTR stock.  This meant that the infrastructure and trackplan had to be correct.  I had to revise my very rusty German in order to do the research.  Höchstädt was born which spent a few years on the exhibition circuit.  Audience reaction was varied - a few were very interested, the majority spent a few minutes in front of the layout, again a minority were downright hostile.

About 2018 I began the "last great project", a junction in Upper Franconia.  Unfortunately the pandemic struck, I can't manhandle 4' x 2'8" boards on my own and so I built the last stage of the project, a 12' x 1' Endstation blocking one of the fiddle yards.  So Blindheim was born.  There is no possibility of an accurate trackplan in that footprint but all the buildings (some scratchbuilt) are valid for Upper Franconia and the stock is correct for location and era.

Conclusions.  Foreign layouts are committed to RTR models, but that doesn't mean that infrastructure and stock cannot be correct.  Bill

[stivesnick]

Interesting thread and as someone who has exhibited, overseas layouts, british steam and diesel layouts in N Gauge, you are certainly aware of people just walking past and muttering. As others have noted, you just ignore.

 

In the 1990s I had an "african based" layout based around the border between two imaginary countries. I came up with the idea after a trip to Zimbabwe and seeing the mix of british and american built diesels in use at that time. Was it accurate - no, but is hopefully provided some interesting operation, it did feature some scratch built wagons and the children enjoyed finding the elephants and the lions. 

 

There does appear to be a consensus about not liking depot based layouts. I agree. The often appear to be just locomotives moving around for no obvious reason on a site that no railway company would ever consider suitable for a depot in the first place. These are the only layouts I tend to walk past. 

 

To me the best reason for looking at a wide variety of layouts is to get ideas for my own layout! My current bristish layout includes an number of modified american buildings and details for various european suppliers. Items I would have missed, if I had just walked past those layouts. 

 

Nick 

[F-UnitMad]

21 minutes ago, stivesnick said:

In the 1990s I had an "african based" layout based around the border between two imaginary countries. I came up with the idea after a trip to Zimbabwe and seeing the mix of british and american built diesels in use at that time.

Was that in Continental Modeller around that time? I certainly remember an 'African' layout with 'early' British diesels (similar to the LMS Twins?) and American 2nd generation Geeps. I thought it was fascinating! 👍👍👍